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Is there a way back this time?

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
So the interim counts for nothing? Where were Arsenal in the table when Wenger left them, or Leicester when they binned Ranieri? You couldn't say they didn't improve those clubs.

In that process, jose also improved the club where they were ....
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
34,059
Article in Athletic yesterday, cannot argue with any of it

Spurzzzzzzzz

Seven attacking players used over the course of the evening against the team that started the day second-bottom — and no shots on target.

One hundred and four minutes played because of stoppages and never a sense that a breakthrough was close.

Even the press conference drew a blank, with faltering technology forcing Jose Mourinho to leave before he’d answered a single question.

Soul-destroying games take many different forms. There are the draws and defeats snatched from the jaws of victory, there are thrashings, there are big occasions that end in heartbreak.

Then there are ones like Thursday night’s 0-0 draw at Bournemouth. Matches so dispiriting that, by the end, you can barely bring yourself to get upset anymore. This was the culmination of months and months of decline, a disastrous season that seemingly just will not end.

During much of the past 11 months, there have been mitigating circumstances. The change in management, the unlucky injuries, the players — such as Christian Eriksen and Danny Rose — who didn’t want to be at the club.

Against Bournemouth, there were no excuses. Dele Alli was out, yes, but he’s struggled of late anyway.

Mourinho was still able to use Harry Kane, Son Heung-min, Steven Bergwijn, Giovani Lo Celso, Tanguy Ndombele, Erik Lamela and Lucas Moura over the course of the evening — and still they couldn’t muster a shot on target. Against Bournemouth, who started the day 19th and had lost seven of their previous eight matches. Bournemouth, whose previous Premier League clean sheet was in mid-December, and who had never denied an opponent a shot on target since winning promotion to the Premier League five years ago. Spurs should have had a first-half penalty but these are damning numbers.

Tottenham’s lack of cutting edge made the game so tedious that referee Paul Tierney blew for half-time before the allotted two minutes of added time had elapsed. It felt merciful.

Across the country and beyond, WhatsApp groups lit up with despairing messages about what Spurs had become just 13 months after reaching a Champions League final. Was the Mauricio Pochettino period just a weird dream? Is this really it now?

Somehow, a dismal game like this feels even worse at the moment. Even though you know it will be awful, you still spend most of the day a little bit excited because, in spite of everything else that’s going on under the cloud of a pandemic, you’re getting to watch your team play in the Premier League in a few hours. Muscle memory tells you that this is something to look forward to.

And then it starts. And then you remember.
It’s all happening at a terrible time for Tottenham, as well. On Monday, season ticket renewals open for the 2020-21 season, with many supporters saying that they won’t be taking up the option.

COVID-induced uncertainty is a factor but so is the disillusionment. There is a sense that this is a club in drift, with owners who only care about the bottom line.

During a period in which everything they have done has been aimed at becoming a global attention-grabbing brand, Spurs are forcing supporters to question whether they should renew their season tickets and turn off their TVs. The shiny new stadium, the Amazon documentary and appointing Jose Mourinho… it was all supposed to take Spurs to the next level commercially.

Maybe that’s why Thursday night was so dispiriting. This isn’t a brave new world. It feels like a regression to the 1990s when Spurs were similarly defined more by what happened off the pitch than any great achievements on it. Yes, a legacy of financial mismanagement that led to a points deduction has been replaced by controversies like a player storming into the crowd or a record signing that can barely get a game, but the outcome is the same: Spurs are ensconced in mid-table. They are ninth with four games of the season remaining, level on points with Burnley.

A few of you are probably reading this and screaming words to the effect of “it’s Mourinho, stupid!” And yes, he is a factor. So far, his appointment has not worked. But Tottenham’s problems are bigger than that.
It’s a stagnant group of players who, despite having more than enough talent to put away a team like Bournemouth easily, can’t even muster a shot on target.

It’s the feeling that things are going to get worse before they get better. Rather than rebuilding from a position of strength, Tottenham suddenly look desperate and without the means to make the necessary changes. When you watch matches like last night’s against Bournemouth, and Everton before that, and Sheffield United before that, it can feel like they need a new set of full-backs, a central defender, a defensive midfielder, another winger and a back-up striker to Kane.

But they will not be able to spend the kind of money that overhaul requires. Even if they did have better players, they look so devoid of a plan and motivation that it would likely still be a struggle.

In spite of everything, Spurs do still have a lot to play for this season. There’s Europa League qualification, which in these financially stretched times has become extremely important, and in two days, the north London derby. If that ends in another disaster, it’s a match with the potential to be ruinous to the season ticket renewals the following day.

You just hope Bournemouth was the nadir and not a sign of things to come.
 

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,410
7,278
I think emotionally, the Poch core of players were spent and now have lost the appetite/ emotional energy. To come so close to winning the league and the CL is draining for a team not used to this. Imagine their thoughts starting a new season again when some of them are coming out of their prime or going into their prime with the thoughts of having to try it all again for a rebuild. Which is why I think it's best that this Poch core of player should leave.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
December 2003 - A run of defeats ending with a loss at home to Charlton meant we ended the calendar year in the bottom three. An absolute shambles of a squad left by Hoddle being managed by David Pleat featuring a complete lack of pace, players like Anderton, Poyet, Redknapp and Ziege all way past their prime and players like Doherty and Postiga were clearly nowhere near good enough. We only just avoided relegation this season and finished with literally half the number of points Arsenal did. But we did have Ledley King and Robbie Keane to build a team around. We added Jermain Defoe and Paul Robinson. We overhauled our management structure in 2004 with Arnesen and Jol and brought a fresh approach to the team. We then signed Michael Carrick, Michael Dawson, Aaron Lennon and finally Edgar Davids, and suddenly we had a hungry young side, full of talented players with a couple of experienced heads to lead the way. Within two years of that disaster of a season we were competing for a Champions League place and would have even finished above that Arsenal side who doubled our points tally had we not eaten that dodgy lasagne.

October 2008 - Two points from eight games. We'd lost at home to Hull and Sunderland, and away to Middlesbrough and Stoke. We'd sold Berbatov, Keane and Defoe to replace them with Bent, Pavyluchenko and Frazier Campbell and had scored just five goals in those opening eight games. Out of our other new summer signings, David Bentley appeared to be an expensive showpony, Luka Modric looked too lightweight for English football and Heurelho Gomes was the laughing stock of the league. King couldn't stay fit. Dawson and Lennon on a major decline and not living up to their potential, nor was Bale who looked completely lost at left-back. Zokora, O'Hara, Hutton, Gunter - clearly nowhere near good enough. We'd been top five regulars for the last few seasons but now people thought we'd fucked it, and with Manchester City now becoming the next oil rich club our chances of getting back to where we were looked bleak. Then Redknapp came in and immediately our fortunes turned around - once he figured out how to get the best out of Modric, Lennon and Dawson and how to manage King's fitness, he brought back Keane and Defoe before adding a bit of steel to the midfield with Palacios and a bit of flair with Kranjcar. Finally, Bale then stepped up to the plate, and within two years - we were playing Champions League football for the first time.

March 2014 - After coming 4th, 5th, 4th in the previous three seasons, we'd fallen apart. Modric was gone. King was gone. Van Der Vaart was gone. Now even Bale was gone. And we'd spent the money on Paulinho, Capoue, Chiriches, Soldado and Chadli. Lamela couldn't even get onto subs bench, nobody knew where he was or what had happened to our record signing. We lost twice to Arsenal, 4-0 to Chelsea, 5-1 to Man City, 4-0 to Liverpool and 3-1 at home to Benfica in a short space of time - it felt like every single big game we got completely outclassed. Arsenal and Liverpool were rejuvenated and playing great football near the top of the league and we had Tim fucking Sherwood. Vertonghen and Lloris looked like they didn't want to be there. Rose and Walker looked like rabbits in the headlights. Lennon, Dawson, Kaboul and Sandro's careers were all nosediving. It didn't look good - even Everton were doing better than us and it felt like we needed an entirely new side. Then this awkward looking striker from our youth team started scoring goals and this young "out of his depth" manager at Southampton was brought in. He initiated a high pressing game, gave young players like Kane, Bentaleb and Mason a chance whilst developing Rose, Walker and Eriksen into some of the best players in the league. We then made a couple of subtle additions in Alli, Alderweireld, Son and Wanyama, and once again, within two years, we were better than ever before - challenging for the title for the first time in decades.


Levy has overseen three turnarounds from what looked like a position of no hope. Maybe he got lucky, that's a discussion for another day, but can it be done a fourth time? Are the raw materials there that, with the right manager, coaching and acquisitions, we could turn ourselves back into title challengers again within two years? What would need to happen and who do we need to build our team around? Even Mourinho himself said upon his appointment that he felt we could win the league next season. Bearing in mind the current football landscape and available budgets, is there a way back for us now?

Great post.

All three situations you mention required a change of manager coupled with significant investment in the team to turn things around, following a period of squad mismanagement. It’s almost as if their is a common denominator responsible each time?
 

Gbspurs

Gatekeeper for debates, King of the plonkers
Jan 27, 2011
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The most depressing thing about the OP is that Lamela was once our record signing.
 

$hoguN

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2005
26,626
34,700
Hard to know if it's Mourinho or the squad that is the issue. Either way he's joined at the worst possible time regarding transfer funds. I was hopeful we'd be better after the break but we look shocking.
Considering largely those same players have been like this for nearly two years I think it is pretty clear it’s the squad that is the biggest problem.

much like when Pochettino joined and we had to remove the likes of Adebayor and Capoue, we now need to move on a different set. It’s probably only 4 or 5 players but we need to do now. For me it’s the likes of Vertonghen (legs have gone), Aurier (don’t know where to begin), Sissoko (is generally effective at breaking up our own play), Toby (lost a bit of concentration). Those out and replacements in, then it is back to work on the training ground as things will slowly improve
 

aussiespursguy

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,437
6,677
I can't see any changes being made in the short term (ie next 5 months) so I guess we have made our bed and need to lie in it.

Mourinho will not take us forward. He may paper over some cracks and cost us a player or two leaving, but he will not lift us back to where we belong. The football will be turgid.

So what's needed? Someone young and progressive. Someone used to finding talent and developing it. And that is not Jose.

We need to seriously look to Germany. Marco Rose I personally think will be a standout for us. Plays the Tottenham way.

Also Peter Bosz at Leverkusen has a firm plan in place and could work well in the Premier League.

Long and the short of it. Jose is not the long term solution.
 

emiley heskey

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2020
1,121
1,832
1. Vert
2. Aurier
3. Sissoko
4. Lamela
5. Moura
6. If possible one of toby or sanchez

We need to remove them and bring in new set of players. But now pls we need to buy or loan atleast one or two trophy winning footballers in ghe squad. Buying youth player is good but you need to have that experienced calm headed players in the field as well to guide the youth players. I hope jose and levy work on that aspect
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
This thread is a bit premature imo. We’re in a slump but it will only take a couple of signings and for Mourinho(or the next manager) to get the right combinations of the already talented players we have on the pitch. We have the basis of a really exciting squad it just needs to tweaking for us to start going in the right direction.
 

LDNYid

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
554
1,601
I believe that if we are to remain under the same ownership, which looks likely, then the only way we have sustained success (by which I mean challenging for trophies and actually winning a few) is to restructure the the footballing strategy; we need a director of football and a scouting and recruitment set-up which can get a majority of decisions right, and do so with a clear identity for the club. Within such a structure the inevitability of managers coming and going should cause less of an impact; that is not to diminish the work of managers in achieving success, but to acknowledge that clubs in world football with strong structures are more stable.
 

WinksyBoy

How does one change one's username....?
Jun 26, 2020
1,000
1,588
I can't see any changes being made in the short term (ie next 5 months) so I guess we have made our bed and need to lie in it.

Mourinho will not take us forward. He may paper over some cracks and cost us a player or two leaving, but he will not lift us back to where we belong. The football will be turgid.

So what's needed? Someone young and progressive. Someone used to finding talent and developing it. And that is not Jose.

We need to seriously look to Germany. Marco Rose I personally think will be a standout for us. Plays the Tottenham way.

Also Peter Bosz at Leverkusen has a firm plan in place and could work well in the Premier League.

Long and the short of it. Jose is not the long term solution.
I think Marco Rose would be an outstanding appointment. Young, ambitious and his team's play exciting football

It would depend on whether he thought he could do great things at Spurs.
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
Just out of interest does anybody have any idea what happens if Joe Lewis dies ? I am not being horrible but he is in his eighties I Know its not a nice thing to bring up but I was just wondering . Would we be at the mercy of anybody who wanted to take us over in the fashion of the Man Unt takeover where they used the clubs own money to fund the bid thus taking them to a club with no debts to a club with £800 mill debt which a fair chunk of it they are still servicing after all this time since they took over . Will he pass things over to his son ? . Will his heir just sell his shares to the highest bidder ? Or is there some already thought out plan ? We think its bad now but there are some real shysters in the financial and money world. As incredible as it may seem we could be a lot worse off than we are at this moment in time .
 

Spursmatty87

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2016
1,918
5,046
Think it’s easier to get court up in the next up and coming great young manager when things are in this situation. However I think we need to be brave and stick with Jose(as long as he wants to be here).

I can’t defend his football atm but then again we haven’t been able to defend the football played for the last two years. We need a mentally shift to go to the next level, we needed it when poch first took over and we need it now. The problem is Jose hasn’t got 5-6 youngsters ready to take the place players that didn’t want to change. I’ll judge him at Christmas once he can get his own players in.
 

Goobers

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
1,953
3,164
1. Vert
2. Aurier
3. Sissoko
4. Lamela
5. Moura
6. If possible one of toby or sanchez

We need to remove them and bring in new set of players. But now pls we need to buy or loan atleast one or two trophy winning footballers in ghe squad. Buying youth player is good but you need to have that experienced calm headed players in the field as well to guide the youth players. I hope jose and levy work on that aspect
I would suggest to avoid too big a turnover releasing only one of Lamela and Moura.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
Just out of interest does anybody have any idea what happens if Joe Lewis dies ? I am not being horrible but he is in his eighties I Know its not a nice thing to bring up but I was just wondering . Would we be at the mercy of anybody who wanted to take us over in the fashion of the Man Unt takeover where they used the clubs own money to fund the bid thus taking them to a club with no debts to a club with £800 mill debt which a fair chunk of it they are still servicing after all this time since they took over . Will he pass things over to his son ? . Will his heir just sell his shares to the highest bidder ? Or is there some already thought out plan ? We think its bad now but there are some real shysters in the financial and money world. As incredible as it may seem we could be a lot worse off than we are at this moment in time .

I would suspect that he would pas his ownership on to someone as part of his estate via his will. Probably his daughter, but he may leave it to Levy!
 
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