Match Threads Hoffenheim vs Spurs

[kitchen]

All night.

Yeah, some of our passing second half was shocking. I was shouting at the TV,'Just pass to a feking teammate!' Every time we gave the ball away needlessly (which was a lot)

Sorted it out eventually and pushed up the pitch, but it was painful.

I want Dragusin to come good and think he can, but on the ball, he is a huge liability currently. That said, Kulu and others you expect better from were all guilty of some shocking passing yesterday, too.

Get the lot of them to a spa and massage centre and give them a lot of recovery time before Sunday.

 

[Metalhead]

Mikey Moore 'fuming with Postecoglou' after what happened in Tottenham win

Mikey Moore has every right to be fuming after what Ange Postecoglou did as Tottenham saw off Hoffenheim in the Europa League.

www.tottenhamhotspurnews.com

Some of these blogs are ridiculous. The author has essentially quoted himself in the title to make it look like Moore himself was fuming. The rest of it - well let's just say that everyone has an opinion.

 

[markt]

Mikey Moore 'fuming with Postecoglou' after what happened in Tottenham win

Mikey Moore has every right to be fuming after what Ange Postecoglou did as Tottenham saw off Hoffenheim in the Europa League.

www.tottenhamhotspurnews.com

Some of these blogs are ridiculous. The author has essentially quoted himself in the title to make it look like Moore himself was fuming. The rest of it - well let's just say that everyone has an opinion.

Utter garbage article isn't it.

Seems to forget he was ill for a long time

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Mikey Moore 'fuming with Postecoglou' after what happened in Tottenham win

Mikey Moore has every right to be fuming after what Ange Postecoglou did as Tottenham saw off Hoffenheim in the Europa League.

www.tottenhamhotspurnews.com

Some of these blogs are ridiculous. The author has essentially quoted himself in the title to make it look like Moore himself was fuming. The rest of it - well let's just say that everyone has an opinion.

That’s the problem with the internet , it gives everybody the chance to express an opinion even if they are as thick as two short planks, and know nothing about what they are talking about.
Still, Paul Merson probably makes a decent living doing just that,

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Yeah, some of our passing second half was shocking. I was shouting at the TV,'Just pass to a feking teammate!' Every time we gave the ball away needlessly (which was a lot)

Sorted it out eventually and pushed up the pitch, but it was painful.

I want Dragusin to come good and think he can, but on the ball, he is a huge liability currently. That said, Kulu and others you expect better from were all guilty of some shocking passing yesterday, too.

Get the lot of them to a spa and massage centre and give them a lot of recovery time before Sunday.

That second half was reminiscent of the Palace game. Gave the ball away 43 times in our own half in 90 mins Versus Palace. Surely that is when the likes of Maddison and Bentancur have to get on the ball and keep possession, calm the game down .
Maddison plays well when we do. When the going gets tough he doesn’t really do much.
Very good at pirouetting on the ball for no result and pointing at everybody.

 

[Metalhead]

That’s the problem with the internet , it gives everybody the chance to express an opinion even if they are as thick as two short planks, and know nothing about what they are talking about.
Still, Paul Merson probably makes a decent living doing just that,

Ha ha that is true,

 

[Gilzeanking]

I missed the match, but I read a match report that Hoffenheim weren't pressing very hard.

Explained the result imo.

 

[UbeAstard]

What does that have to do with with my post?

My apologies, I thought you were saying Ange had no responsibilities for the injuries but after re-reading you are saying they aren't down to tactics. I cant say they are or aren't but understand why people would ask the question.

 

[tevezito]

Just a few random musings having caught up with the match thread.

Huge gap in behind on our right hand side yet again. Can't say it wasn't coming.

When are we ever going to fix this.

When the players are fit enough rather than too fatigued to close the gaps.

4 passes and a shot is all it took from the turnover

One of my regular and fave Argentine commentators told a story during the Coventry match when we were losing and couldn't string two passes together that a World Cup winning manager once told him that he just trained his team to do all they could to make three consecutive forward passes. And when they could do it, it would normally be enough to score a goal. He the started counting our consecutive forward passes for the next five minutes or so. I think he got to two once..

Jesus we’re bad - if we end up dropping points this could be terminal.

How are we so shit? I don’t get it

Fatigue. Pure and simple. People say they get it, but then in the next breath ask why we can't defend or pass or are so shit etc. It accumulates from game to game and also has long lasting effects. We saw it last season when things didn't magically pick up after the January absentees came back. Our form is not going to get much better very quickly. But hopefully it won't be as bad and eventually players will get fresher.

We're running on empty but Ange just stands and watches

If he gets on a treadmill will it give the players more energy?

Have we won any second balls today?

Haven't won many all season. Difficult to do when you play twice a week and your opponent doesn't (Palace, Brighton, Ipswich etc) or they've just come back from their winter break (today).

Oh, thank god. I was worried that I had jinxed us.

Now its not my fault...

Go on, admit it, you were enjoying the idea you had strange powers for a while, weren't you?

 

[Trix]

Just a few random musings having caught up with the match thread.

When the players are fit enough rather than too fatigued to close the gaps.

One of my regular and fave Argentine commentators told a story during the Coventry match when we were losing and couldn't string two passes together that a World Cup winning manager once told him that he just trained his team to do all they could to make three consecutive forward passes. And when they could do it, it would normally be enough to score a goal. He the started counting our consecutive forward passes for the next five minutes or so. I think he got to two once..

Fatigue. Pure and simple. People say they get it, but then in the next breath ask why we can't defend or pass or are so shit etc. It accumulates from game to game and also has long lasting effects. We saw it last season when things didn't magically pick up after the January absentees came back. Our form is not going to get much better very quickly. But hopefully it won't be as bad and eventually players will get fresher.

If he gets on a treadmill will it give the players more energy?

Haven't won many all season. Difficult to do when you play twice a week and your opponent doesn't (Palace, Brighton, Ipswich etc) or they've just come back from their winter break (today).

Go on, admit it, you were enjoying the idea you had strange powers for a while, weren't you?

Those gaps out wide have always been there under Ange, always. It's got nothing to do with fatigue and everything to do with positioning of the full backs. Porro in particular.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

It’s all down to the tactics. I hope Ange can do well in rest of the season but we are going nowhere with him. Injuries are an excuse . Leicester have had a week to prepare but it doesn’t make them world beaters .
We are knackered because they have been run into the ground.
First 9 games won 4 lost 4, almost full strength. That is what we are . When everybody is back it won’t be much better than that. The only reason I think we can beat Villa is because we often do, no other reason.

 

[tevezito]

Wasn't sure where to put this. But some recognition for our teens and a dig at Levy to finish off, from the Athletic's morning after the night before piece.yesterday:

Spoiler: Tottenham’s youngsters are performing superbly – but at what cost?

Tottenham’s youngsters are performing superbly – but at what cost?​

Sebastian Stafford-Bloor
Tottenham survived against Hoffenheim.

Last night’s 3-2 away win in the Europa League was a performance full of flaws, but also heart. When the game ended, the Spurs players who were still on the pitch sagged, wilting with fatigue.

“These guys are giving everything they can,” head coach Ange Postecoglou said afterwards. “It shouldn’t be dismissed that we’re a Premier League outfit playing in an away game in Europe and we’ve got five teenagers out there.”

Two of those teenagers, Archie Gray and Lucas Bergvall, lay flat on their backs at full time, exhausted by yet another 90 minutes. A third, Callum Olusesi, had just played his first minutes of professional football for the club. A fourth, Mikey Moore, is still not old enough to legally drink a post-match beer but has become one of the flickers of light in an often colourless Tottenham season.

GO DEEPER
Inside the injury crisis that threatens to wreck Tottenham's season

All the senior players Postecoglou had available started in Germany last night. Such has been the physical intensity of the past few months, though, that even those who are not injured now move as if they are. Awkwardly and out of rhythm. Dejan Kulusevski was physically monstrous earlier in the season. Now, with nearly 3,000 minutes of football for club and country in his legs, he looks like he’s running into a gale.

But this is what Spurs had left and, actually, it was strangely affecting to watch. Did they play well? Not particularly. Hoffenheim are a below-average Bundesligateam (currently 15th in its 18-club table) who have not won at home in their domestic league since November. They still managed to be a force against their visitors from north London, score twice and make it a game for all 96 minutes.

In a different context, it would have been embarrassing for Tottenham to have to hold on against such limited opposition. But when Postecoglou spoke further about the performance, it was with a sincere, heartfelt and entirely believable pride: “These players are exhausted. They’re professional footballers who are just 24/7 just trying to recover right now. All of them. And they’re giving everything. I couldn’t speak high enough of the players, they’re carrying us through there. All credit to them.”

When James Maddison was interviewed by Spurs’ in-house media, he was almost tearful in his appreciation for what his team-mates are giving to this cause. It was moving and entirely appropriate.

But this is not a triumph. It is for the players and the sense that Tottenham are three points closer to qualifying for the knockout rounds of the Europa League, but as a measure of the club’s overall functionality it was ridiculous — absurd.

Increasingly, their 2024-25 season is becoming about small positives — tiny consolations that can help supporters believe that this slog is in aid of something. Like suffering through some kind of misery for the sake of building character, or some other vague reward.

Perhaps a spirit is being developed. Maybe a team really can be forged by holding it to the fire. Maybe. Watching Maddison’s interview was really a warming experience.

Gray and Bergvall are positives, too. Of that, there is no doubt. It’s also true to say that they have benefitted from this situation and that had Spurs suffered fewer injuries and had a deeper squad, neither would have played so much football this season.

Both have developed tremendously. Bergvall gets stronger with every touch of the ball and fellow 18-year-old Gray, who has played half the positions on the pitch in the past six months, looks a wonderful player in the making and well worth the investment of around £30million the club made last summer.

So, there is a happy accident aspect to this, but the team’s dependence on those players — at this stage of their careers, with Tottenham enduring their worst form in decades and all the associated pressures — is not flattering. On January 1, it was the consequence of the summer’s squad planning and that terrible injury list. On January 24, with the winter transfer window three-and-a-half weeks old and no outfield players signed, it is no longer simply unlucky or something that has to be endured.

Maybe, many years from now, Bergvall and Gray will describe this as a pivotal point in their careers. But what if it had not gone well? What if — without adequate support from the senior players or this shallow squad — they had been damaged by this? By injury, perhaps, or by a mistake that ultimately forced them to close their social media accounts.

Eleven days after arriving in England, Antonin Kinsky played in a north London derby. Still adapting to the Premier League, having never played in it before that night, the 21-year-old goalkeeper had a disappointing game, drawing stinging criticism from the pundits analysing the match on British television.

The point, of course, is that a young player is delicate. Physically and emotionally. But the minute they step on the pitch, they become fair game, with little regard for the circumstances that may exist.

So far, Bergvall and Gray have walked between the raindrops. They have been magnificent in ways that should not have been expected. But with 11 days of the transfer window left and no reinforcements in sight, the club run the risk of having to depend on them further — of having no choice but to keep playing them in roles and with frequency beyond their control, in ways that may not suit their development.

Which is to say nothing of the older players.

Radu Dragusin has suffered a crushing lack of form in recent weeks and would clearly benefit from some time out of the team. He cannot have it because there is nobody else to play in his central defensive position. Son Heung-min should not be playing this many minutes at his age (he turns 33 in July), but he has to because there are still so few alternatives and the urgency of the Premier League situation means every game is becoming critical. Richarlison’s fragile fitness has to be gambled with now because fellow striker Dominic Solanke isn’t likely to play again until March because of a knee injury.

Postecoglou was right in his observations on Thursday night. He should be proud of his players. And when they approached the visiting fans at the PreZero Arena following the full-time whistle, they deservedly felt admiration from that corner, as well.

But too much is being asked of them now and they have earned the right to some reinforcements.

'So far, Bergvall and Gray have walked between the raindrops.'