Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[TOLBINY]

The Kane quote from a couple of motnhs ago is resurfacing today given BM's recent results ""Bayern is definitely a different pressure compared to what I felt at Spurs. Of course we wanted to win things at Spurs but if you went a couple of games without winning then it wasn't a disaster. The feeling at Bayern is that you have to win every game.""

Maybe that is precisley the mentality that Conte was figthing to change and one of the reasons why he said we needed time and patience.

 

[Styopa]

""Bayern is definitely a different pressure compared to what I felt at Spurs. Of course we wanted to win things at Spurs but if you went a couple of games without winning then it wasn't a disaster. The feeling at Bayern is that you have to win every game.""

Kane has obviously never been into a match thread on SC…

 

[teedee]

To be fair, I defo did celebrate every time we've finished in the CL places.

And me!

 

[mil1lion]

The Kane quote from a couple of motnhs ago is resurfacing today given BM's recent results ""Bayern is definitely a different pressure compared to what I felt at Spurs. Of course we wanted to win things at Spurs but if you went a couple of games without winning then it wasn't a disaster. The feeling at Bayern is that you have to win every game.""

Maybe that is precisley the mentality that Conte was figthing to change and one of the reasons why he said we needed time and patience.

Time and patience is not what he had with us though. For someone who went on about how long it would take and how many windows we needed he sure did give up early.

 

[TOLBINY]

Time and patience is not what he had with us though. For someone who went on about how long it would take and how many windows we needed he sure did give up early.

He asked for time and patience but is wasn't really forthcoming from the fans who were turning on him becuase they didn't like the style of football, even though we were 4th.

 

[bubble07]

Didn't conte celebrate like a man possessed when we got CL??

 

[GutBucket]

He was never a long term appointment here, he didn't even want this job but money was too good while they were no realistic options for him in Italy. He was away from family plus had some health issues. Best case you get 3 seasons out of him here. Brighton showed how to overload midfield against us and, shame he never adapted against it. He was great in his first season here though and we actually played some fun football.

 

[mil1lion]

He asked for time and patience but is wasn't really forthcoming from the fans who were turning on him becuase they didn't like the style of football, even though we were 4th.

Yet he wasn't willing to stick around to turn it around. He talked the talk about fight and having to suffer yet he gave up on us. That's why he doesn't last at any club more than a couple years. As soon as things start to turn he picks up his settlement and leaves. I wanted things to work with him but he was all talk and little substance.

 

[TPdYID]

Yet he wasn't willing to stick around to turn it around. He talked the talk about fight and having to suffer yet he gave up on us. That's why he doesn't last at any club more than a couple years. As soon as things start to turn he picks up his settlement and leaves. I wanted things to work with him but he was all talk and little substance.

The constant insinuation he was bigger & better than the club also got extremely boring.

 

[rossdapep]

You are painting a rosier picture than the real situation though. Look at the table below. We had scored 9 goals in those 10 games and were already 11 goals behind Man Utd as well. We had numerous games and halves without even getting shots on target never mind goals and we were sliding down the table with three losses in our last five including two in a row without scoring. Nuno didn't coach us to play shit and not try to score goals, it was because we weren't very good. Conte came in and discovered that for himself when we tried our best to lose to Vitesse in his first game despite being 3-0 up. He got something more out of that group of players than expected and then with our excellent January signings we started to gain some real traction. Arsenal were nailed on for fourth and it was a miracle to pip them to it because all they had to do was not lose to us at the TH and that was that. Conte got us up for that game and we won our last three while they lost two of their three which gave it to us. I don't particularly like Conte's ways but credit where it's due he worked some magic that season.

View attachment 137914

This is all true. You also have to consider that 10 games into a season, you are not going to be miles behind points wise because all teams simply haven't played enough games yet.

Once you hit 15/16 games then you can start to drift.

It is also not stated but Arsenal had a terrible first 3 games and started to fire, whereas United's form here ended up getting Ole the sack.

Us and United were both on a path to know where, you have to take into account much more than just the points. Whereas Arsenal were becoming a much better team.

If we had left that for another 5 or so games, Arsenal would have created a gap we could not recover from.

 

[rossdapep]

Yet he wasn't willing to stick around to turn it around. He talked the talk about fight and having to suffer yet he gave up on us. That's why he doesn't last at any club more than a couple years. As soon as things start to turn he picks up his settlement and leaves. I wanted things to work with him but he was all talk and little substance.

Exactly.

His reaction to a defeat/bad result was too strong and he was incapable of remaining cool and thinking about long-term.

But then we can't really blame him, that is why Conte has had success becsue he demands so much and is not a long-term coach. He isnt built that way.

 

[mil1lion]

That's the biggest difference between Conte and Ange. One will lay blame on the players and the other will take the blame themselves. It's no wonder the players prefer to play for the latter.

 

[alfie103]

That's the biggest difference between Conte and Ange. One will lay blame on the players and the other will take the blame themselves. It's no wonder the players prefer to play for the latter.

He didn't blame the players to begin with and would also take blame as well. The players also need to take some responsibility as well, football isn't chess where the manager just moves pieces around.

 

[mil1lion]

He didn't blame the players to begin with and would also take blame as well. The players also need to take some responsibility as well, football isn't chess where the manager just moves pieces around.

He threw the players under the bus though and got rightly sacked for it. At the end of the day he was the manager and it's his responsibility to improve players. He didn't do that. It's all well and good saying players have to take responsibility but it ultimately falls to the manager to get the best out of them. Time and again we've seen players perform when a new manager comes in and it's happened again with Ange. Fact is players are looking far better under Ange than they did under Conte. That falls on the manager.

 

[Styopa]

What was the point in Conte laying into the players, if, as most agree, it was a lack of quality in the squad rather than lack of effort by the players?

Players like Emerson, Dier, Davies, Hojbjerg and Skipp never struck me as lazy or unwilling to take any responsibility. They just lack a bit of quality that real top players have.

So how did Conte tearing into them publicly help at all? That just strikes me as poor man management at best and at worst a cynical calculation to salvage his own reputation at the expense of the players and the club’s.

 

[Enzo]

I think frustration (and to a point his personal circumstances) got the better of him.

Frustration at the apparent ceiling of the squad (compared to previous jobs) and also a ceiling on the clubs commitment to spend. Both should have been understood prior to taking the job.

I also think his illness probably made the situation seem far worse than the reality.

In the end he tried to distance himself from the failure, which let's be honest was a little cowardly. The players, coaches and club all played a part (just like the relative success of the prior season).

 

[TOLBINY]

He threw the players under the bus though and got rightly sacked for it. At the end of the day he was the manager and it's his responsibility to improve players. He didn't do that. It's all well and good saying players have to take responsibility but it ultimately falls to the manager to get the best out of them. Time and again we've seen players perform when a new manager comes in and it's happened again with Ange. Fact is players are looking far better under Ange than they did under Conte. That falls on the manager.

In the same way Ange improved Dier?

Come on, these are not children in a playschool, at some point it has to be recognised that they contributed to the problem, it wasn't all on Conte.

Look at the squad he had when he arrived, he had no pre season, he had Europa football mid-week, he had a run to the Carabao Cup semis, so limited training time with an indifferent squad. 56 points from 28 games (Ange currently has 47 from 24) so that's why I think that for Conte to get us 4th in those circumstances is impressive.

I like Ange, I am totally supportive of him, winning a trophy with him at the helm would be magnificent, I am keen to see how this season pans out, and more importantly if we qualify for Europe, how next season pans out with more games. That's when I will start to form a stronger opinion of Ange (unless we win the league this year in which case he becomes a legend in my eyes)

I think it is ok to appreciate the achievements of more than one manager.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

The way Conte spoke about Milan when we played them in the CL (a team we were arguably actually superior to in quality) was like we were coming up against 2011 Barcelona. No wonder the players were relieved to see him fuck off - he clearly had no confidence in them.

 

[mil1lion]

In the same way Ange improved Dier?

Come on, these are not children in a playschool, at some point it has to be recognised that they contributed to the problem, it wasn't all on Conte.

Look at the squad he had when he arrived, he had no pre season, he had Europa football mid-week, he had a run to the Carabao Cup semis, so limited training time with an indifferent squad. 56 points from 28 games (Ange currently has 47 from 24) so that's why I think that for Conte to get us 4th in those circumstances is impressive.

I like Ange, I am totally supportive of him, winning a trophy with him at the helm would be magnificent, I am keen to see how this season pans out, and more importantly if we qualify for Europe, how next season pans out with more games. That's when I will start to form a stronger opinion of Ange (unless we win the league this year in which case he becomes a legend in my eyes)

I think it is ok to appreciate the achievements of more than one manager.

You know Ange dropped Dier? Conte wasn't forced to keep playing him. Just as he wasn't forced to keep playing Son through injury when he was performing badly. Besides the last couple months has shown that with all the injuries Ange had he still had us playing better than Conte did with his squad (which compared to our depleted one was still better).

The trouble is Conte knew the squad he inherited and he even said time and again it would take a few windows. Yet he didn't even last a full season before he imploded. I don't know how anyone can defend that. All I'm reading are excuses when in reality the buck stops with him and he failed big time. He quit on us at the end of the day. Ange signed a 4 year contract which tells all you need to know about the 2 of them. Yes we needed to improve the squad and we did so in the summer and again in January but the manager actually needs to buy in for it to come to fruition.

 

[olithfc]

I think frustration (and to a point his personal circumstances) got the better of him.

Frustration at the apparent ceiling of the squad (compared to previous jobs) and also a ceiling on the clubs commitment to spend. Both should have been understood prior to taking the job.

I also think his illness probably made the situation seem far worse than the reality.

In the end he tried to distance himself from the failure, which let's be honest was a little cowardly. The players, coaches and club all played a part (just like the relative success of the prior season).

Plus

I always thought he felt we were a "modern club" (his words at some point) and it was an element he didn't like - new stadium and training ground, and he missed the traditional side to a club. I might be wrong but that's an impression he gave