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Japhet

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Aug 30, 2010
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We may have brought big, but did we the players the manager wanted?

One player I believe Poch wanted was Fernandes & he got N'Dombele & whilst he shown in glimpses of being a decent player the affect Fernandes had on MU suggests him & Lo Celso would have pretty good for us.

Ndombele was the top target. We didn't show any interest in Fernandez until Betis started pissing around with the deal for Lo Celso.
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
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It is true that Son was very good at times in Kane’s absence and I can remember on at least one occasion where Kane coming back in seemed to disrupt the team. Thing is though that not picking Kane if he is fit is pretty much sacrilegious.

It is, but part of me thinks that we suffer from having Kane for that reason. It's the inevitable issue with having a "one up top" formation really, and that's that you can't really have an effective back-up option if you never rotate.
 

SecretLemonadeDrinker

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2020
2,027
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Aha imagine he had played moura in that final and not kane. You and everyone else in the world would have crucified him.

I don't think that's true at all. In fact, I doubt that you really believe it either.

My experience was that every Spurs fan I knew - and every Spurs fan who I spoke to in Madrid - was surprised that Kane was included in the starting line up and disappointed that Moura wasn't. We were all very happy to see Kane back, of course, but we wanted him on the bench - where he should have been.
 

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
5,082
19,482
For all of his faults, Tim Sherwood actually had a good win ratio and is the rubble under the foundations of what came next. The man was a bit of a tit, but he did a good job for what was expected of him at that time - which was to try and rescue the season until Pochettino came in. A very strange/clutchy attempt at repainting history there, including the weirdly incorrect bit about Chadli...
Feel free to back up the claims with some sort of evidence, but it won't exist. The closest was the one game Sherwood used Lennon as a sort of strange DM role (possibly at Chelsea, if my memory serves me correctly).



This is a descending into a farce of fiction now. Pochettino's net spend was around £120m. He consistently had back-up strikers, but you might be confused about that fact because he simply ignored them - that's also ignore the fact that instead of Llorente/Janssen he used Son, who generally excelled in Kane's absence, but still Son isn't counted for some anti-confirmation-bias reason. Who knows. It gets confusing with Pochettino because he had a strange habit of refusing to play a player in a position if that was the only position he could play in.

As I say, revisionism and fantasy are often (if not always) the entire basis of these 'debates', and it's extremely tiring to have to deconstruct this each time it comes up. I'm not particularly sure why I'm even bothering now, as it's no doubt in-one-ear-and-out-the-other in an internet reading type metaphor.

I'm very much someone who works solely off facts and logic, and what often makes me appear to be "pro ENIC" is the fact that these "boo Levy" arguments are rarely based on anything tangible in terms of facts or pragmatism.
Take away last summers transfer window which he never got to bear the fruits from and then tell.me what he's net spend was.
 

JCRD

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Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
I don't think that's true at all. In fact, I doubt that you really believe it either.

My experience was that every Spurs fan I knew - and every Spurs fan who I spoke to in Madrid - was surprised that Kane was included in the starting line up and disappointed that Moura wasn't. We were all very happy to see Kane back, of course, but we wanted him on the bench - where he should have been.

Kane had to start in my view, what gets lost in all this is Liverpool did the same with Firminho. You have always got to start your main first choice striker and bank on it. Both strikers were shit though in that game.

The fact is we had 90 mins to create chances and we didnt really do much. Very dull affair.
 

Albertbarich

Well-Known Member
Jul 4, 2020
5,082
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I don't think that's true at all. In fact, I doubt that you really believe it either.

My experience was that every Spurs fan I knew - and every Spurs fan who I spoke to in Madrid - was surprised that Kane was included in the starting line up and disappointed that Moura wasn't. We were all very happy to see Kane back, of course, but we wanted him on the bench - where he should have been.
I one million percent believe that.

I didnt know one spurs fan clamouring for moura and more importantly if we had lost with moura id bet you would be posting today about how ridiculous it was to not start kane.
 

SecretLemonadeDrinker

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2020
2,027
11,165
We may have brought big, but did we the players the manager wanted?

One player I believe Poch wanted was Fernandes & he got N'Dombele & whilst he shown in glimpses of being a decent player the affect Fernandes had on MU suggests him & Lo Celso would have pretty good for us.

Wait.......what???? Where did you get this?

Haven't we been told from myriad sources that Poch had been after Ndombele since summer 2018? Haven't we also been told from myriad sources that Fernandes was a backup to / stalking horse for Lo Celso?

With hindsight, perhaps we should have bought Fernandes rather than Ndombele (although I haven't written off Tanguy yet). But I don't think that you can pin this one on Levy. Poch wanted Ndombele.
 

SecretLemonadeDrinker

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2020
2,027
11,165
I one million percent believe that.

I didnt know one spurs fan clamouring for moura and more importantly if we had lost with moura id bet you would be posting today about how ridiculous it was to not start kane.

Anyone who has followed Kane's career closely will know that he often comes back slowly from injury. It usually takes him a while to rediscover any kind of form.

Furthermore, I can't help but think it a bad call from the perspective of team spirit. To drop Moura for a patently unfit Kane after what Moura had done in Amsterdam sends entirely the wrong message to every other player.

As I said, not one Spurs fan I knew or came across thought that Kane should have started.
 
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ravey 29

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2015
24
321
I'm not so much "Enic out" or "Levy out", I'm more "Levy sort your shit out"!
-Get in a DoF,
-come up with a strategy for the next few years,
-take a step back from transfers and
-loosen the purse strings just a tad.

We are much better off now compared to when Enic took over - but 1 trophy in 20yrs is nowhere near good enough.
We all know we'd be in a much better position if the likes of Bruno, Dybala and others had of been brought in.

The haggling over that few extra million here and there looks like it's going to cost Levy and Enic big time going forward!
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
Here's the thing. The club is, in many ways, too big to sell. We're talking £2bn or so. That is well, well beyond the reach of random investment firms like ENIC were. It's the domain of Arab states who want to sportswash their murderous, fascist regimes, and conglomerates like the Glazers who want the prestige while mortgaging the club and spending nothing. I think ENIC have made a heck of a lot of mistakes recently, but I'd also say with 95% confidence that I prefer them to whoever the next owner would be. I'll be honest, part of it is making me fall out of love with the professional game entirely; but while we're still here, I think ENIC learning from their mistakes and taking us forwards with the stadium revenue is the best realistic outcome.
 

SecretLemonadeDrinker

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2020
2,027
11,165
Poorly worded from me - i mean maximise growth through success in particular... then again, and there are a number of posts here that allude to this, we have been on the cusp of success i.e. trophies and league which you cant necessarily blame Levy for but we just fallen short...

Its that 'fallen short' part that I dont think Levy and Enic would be hell bent on correcting or changign his ways for.

I see so many similiarities between Spurs and Liverpool (although they are significantly bigger than us). FSG owners of Liverpool are im sure also the same as Enic, they are in it for the money and growth through reinvesting and growing with what they make and have been hugely successful particularly with Klopp. The difference between FSG and Enic is Levy where i think that last hurdle, FSG backed Klopp, Enic and Levy have failed. Why have they failed? Levy is not stupid.

Agreed re the ENIC / FSG comparison.

As to why Levy failed where FSG succeeded, I'd argue that the answer is threefold.

- FSG showed greater faith in their football operations structure. While Levy vacillated between having a DoF structure or not, FSG put it at Liverpool's heart. Their Sporting Director, Michael Edwards - who, frustratingly, used to be at Spurs before being poached - is the man who has made Liverpool better than any other English club in recent years at identifying and securing the right signings.

- Klopp has the experience of winning. Poch doesn't, yet. That was arguably the key difference between the two teams in the CL final.

- FSG weren't engaged in building a £1billion stadium. They had more freedom to take financial risk in the footballing side of the club.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
I'm not so much "Enic out" or "Levy out", I'm more "Levy sort your shit out"!
-Get in a DoF,
-come up with a strategy for the next few years,
-take a step back from transfers and
-loosen the purse strings just a tad.

We are much better off now compared to when Enic took over - but 1 trophy in 20yrs is nowhere near good enough.
We all know we'd be in a much better position if the likes of Bruno, Dybala and others had of been brought in.

The haggling over that few extra million here and there looks like it's going to cost Levy and Enic big time going forward!
I wish mate but its rinse and repeat with these guys so a lot of us are giving up hope that the way things on the pitch are handled will change for the better. Also its more just the intent behind their ownership and they way they go about things stinks, no regard for the fans.
 

Dougal

Staff
Jun 4, 2004
60,344
129,918
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nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,941
28,069
We may have brought big, but did we the players the manager wanted?

One player I believe Poch wanted was Fernandes & he got N'Dombele & whilst he shown in glimpses of being a decent player the affect Fernandes had on MU suggests him & Lo Celso would have pretty good for us.

It was always supposed to be Lo Celso AND Fernandes if Eriksen left irrespective of signing Ndombele.

How people have failed to.understand that is beyond me. Just about every ITK backed thst up too.
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,941
28,069
Ndombele was the top target. We didn't show any interest in Fernandez until Betis started pissing around with the deal for Lo Celso.
That was if Eriksen was staying.

Fernandes was the Eriksen replacement.
 
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