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rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
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The Paul Mitchell example that keeps getting used is a bad one. 'Transfer guys' like that are often desperate to impress and show they're some sort of player identification guru, and then kick off if they don't have every single recommendation acted upon and clubs aren't signing up a dozen players every summer.

He came in with the club stabilising and needing minimal addition at that point, it was a bad fit all round.
That's a great assessment. They tend to work better at clubs with a high turnover of players such as Southampton (his ex club), Leicester, etc as they are continuously looking for the next player to replace the previous one. The bigger clubs hang on to their better players for much longer therefore turn over can be slower. We don't need to be looking for the next Kane, for example, that puts restrictions on his job, also limits his pool of players to scout.

Whereas, at Leicester they'll be open to signing any 'under the radar' type.

Although, if ENIC believe we 'make superstars' they may want to take a look at moving back to this operation.
 

carmeldevil

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2018
7,588
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While this is a fair enough point I do believe Levy’s biggest failing on the playing side has been a failure to put a transfer structure in place that allows for continuity.

If our pricing strategy will not allow us to pay big money then we need a scouting and transfer system in place that fits what we can pay.

This! This is why they need to change their internal business processing. Will they? Who knows. Not optimistic right now though.
 

he is you know!

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Dec 31, 2012
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wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
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In the short term but over a long period Leicester haven’t continuously achieved.

When did their current board take over?

Err early in the 2010's I believe, My comparison to Leicester is that they have a structure in place which allows scouting and transfers which help them consistently overachieve above their stature whilst also not spending obscene amounts of money. For a club to find Kante and then replace him with Ndidi shows me a club with a very impressive structure in place.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
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Err early in the 2010's I believe, My comparison to Leicester is that they have a structure in place which allows scouting and transfers which help them consistently overachieve above their stature whilst also not spending obscene amounts of money. For a club to find Kante and then replace him with Ndidi shows me a club with a very impressive structure in place.
No need for the err, I asked a genuine question.

I agree that Leicester have done very well and obviously the title win was a spectacular achievement.

Very interested to see how they try to move to the next level of continuously challenge at top. Something we have struggled to do.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
Disagree I'm afraid. Any podcast with Tony "I love Liverpool" Evans is not worth listening to.

I unsubscribed after they lost their editor and JPB to the Athletic and J Lieu to the Guardian.
Fair enough mate, I thought it was a fairly balanced insightful pod, perhaps a slight Jose negative bias but couldn’t argue with most of what they said. A combo of this and the athletic ones is a good mix for me. Sky have also just done a debate about us. Everyone is speaking about how crap we are and how far we’ve fallen :( Danny Murphy fairly decent pundit to be fair

 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
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No need for the err, I asked a genuine question.

I agree that Leicester have done very well and obviously the title win was a spectacular achievement.

Very interested to see how they try to move to the next level of continuously challenge at top. Something we have struggled to do.

The err was me typing me thinking about it :ROFLMAO:
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
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Actually was closer to the end than I thought. Nothing juicy, just spoke highly of the club and Levy. Did say he didn't get given a reason for losing the job but that's it.

I played golf with Harry at a charity event about 4 years back, he cannot publicly criticise the club including management due to a NDA agreed on his termination.
Not saying he would have anything bad to say, just that he can't say it, even if he does.
 
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dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
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I played golf with Harry at a charity event about 4 years back, he cannot publicly criticise the club including management due to a NDA agreed on his termination.
Not saying he would have anything bad to say, just that he can't say it, even if he does.
He definitely chooses to talk positively about his past experiences nowadays.

He did talk about his firing from West Ham as a result from him saying something critical about the chairman to the press and how he had learnt his lesson.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
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He definitely chooses to talk positively about his past experiences nowadays.

He did talk about his firing from West Ham as a result from him saying something critical about the chairman to the press and how he had learnt his lesson.

I am not sure chooses is necessarily the right word, he has to obey terms or potentially has to give up a lot of money.
I assume it is the case with almost all Premier League managers, they will never talk badly about their time with former club, one it may affect them getting another job, but two, contractually they can't. They can about individual players, just not the clubs and management in general.
NDA's when agreeing settlement will be totally the norm in Premier League, I am sure any of our ITK's can confirm that.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
While this is a fair enough point I do believe Levy’s biggest failing on the playing side has been a failure to put a transfer structure in place that allows for continuity.

If our pricing strategy will not allow us to pay big money then we need a scouting and transfer system in place that fits what we can pay.

We've had a transfer structure since 2004 though (maybe even earlier)? In fact in this country we were probably one of the first to have one in place and is quite probably why we have then been more consistent and pulled away from those clubs (Villa, Newcastle, Everton etc.) we were battling with, or even behind, in the time period since.

Managers have come and gone but how we operate hasn't changed really. We try and buy ahead of the curve for potential talents from smaller clubs or ones we enjoy a financial advantage over. Young British talent like Defoe, Dawson, Lennon, Jenas, Huddlestone, Bale, Rose, Walker, Alli, Sessegnon etc. When that market started to become more difficult to operate in with premium prices, and others continued to open up, we've increasingly looked overseas - from Modric through Eriksen to Ndombele in the present day. Then we're also ready for the opportunistic purchases - eg. raiding crisis clubs like Leeds for Robinson and Lennon, or Pompey for Harry's favourite boys, or a van der Vaart, or PSG players who they need rid of at below market value prices (whatever you think of their abilities, that's the reality).

I'd say how we've operated has been really consistent and a big part of our upward trajectory.

Of course that can be refined and improved and now we're in a bad patch people think it's a lot worse, but on the whole our hit rate and operating in the market, both buying and selling, hasn't been too bad at all.

Personally I think my main area I'd like to see some change now is in the academy. It's come on a lot in the last decade or so, McDermott has been a great servant for the club, but if we're really serious about consistently producing our own players at the very top standard then I'd like to see us putting more resources in to get the best juniors in, having a bit of a shake up in personnel - getting in people who really know what they're doing (I've always asked if Spurs admire Ajax players so much - Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Sanchez, linked with others such as De Ligt etc - why they don't just then get the people who develop them...…?) and try to go on another level.

Edit: Meant to say, from a strategy point of view I think the one area where we aren't consistent, and Levy should get questioned, is on his manager choices. After Redknapp's era, where we did change a bit for him, we seemed to take a deliberate step towards more technical football, high press, possession based attack football under AVB and then Poch. Now we've gone in the completely opposite direction with Mourinho, lower block, more emphasis on defensive qualities, quick counters needing athletic players. That will need a turnover of players. My fear is, and I expect to happen in all honesty, the next manager whenever it comes along we'll be going back in the opposite direction and yet more change and turnover and rebuilding happens again.


That's a great assessment. They tend to work better at clubs with a high turnover of players such as Southampton (his ex club), Leicester, etc as they are continuously looking for the next player to replace the previous one. The bigger clubs hang on to their better players for much longer therefore turn over can be slower. We don't need to be looking for the next Kane, for example, that puts restrictions on his job, also limits his pool of players to scout.

Whereas, at Leicester they'll be open to signing any 'under the radar' type.

Although, if ENIC believe we 'make superstars' they may want to take a look at moving back to this operation.

Yeah as I said, people like that work at the start of the process when a team/squad needs to be built.

See above on the last bit, I'm not sure we have ever really gone too far away from that M.O. Lets look at the signings since the summer - Ndombele, Clarke, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Gedson, Bergwijn. Spot the trend.....
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
I am not sure chooses is necessarily the right word, he has to obey terms or potentially has to give up a lot of money.
I assume it is the case with almost all Premier League managers, they will never talk badly about their time with former club, one it may affect them getting another job, but two, contractually they can't. They can about individual players, just not the clubs and management in general.
NDA's when agreeing settlement will be totally the norm in Premier League, I am sure any of our ITK's can confirm that.
Come on mate.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
Also completely agree about the winners of domestic cups and i'm realistic that without spending billions like Chelsea and Man.City have done or by being an already top top club like Man.U/Liverpool and hate to say it but Arsenal as well then actually winning trophies over the last 20-30 years has been a hugely difficult task for anyone outside of the 3-5 big big clubs either big by stature or sudden financial backing. BUT I do think that if ENIC had run the football operations side of the club better then we'd probably have another league cup mabye 1-2 FA Cups and possibly just possibly even a league title to our names and those fine margins are frustrating especially when you can now see other emerging clubs like Wolves and Leicester doing things the right way and competition gets ever more fierce, we needed to and need to get the running of the football side of the club absoloutely pin point now in order to get over the line for success.
Yep, I agree with all of that. I reckon that a bit more effort towards squad management would have probably seen a couple of trophies, although I don't mean that in a "Nelson & Saha" kind of way. I think the toughest part is that squad dealing has to be done before the season when we simply don't know how things are going to pan out. It's very easy to think that if we had pushed a bit harder during the Leicester year that we could have won the league, but who could have ever predicted that season would turn out like it did?

The solution of course is to be pushing harder every single year, and I think (just my own view of the situation) that this is what the whole "project" has been about. How to move our club into a position where we can be pushing every year and are able to both attract and retain the sort of players we need. This overlaps with the Kane backup situation I think... it will be easier to keep a good backup striker happy on the bench if we can pay him a shed load of cash!

Wolves are such a great example of what is possible I think - even more so than Leicester because I think they've been more on the lines of slow and steady wins the race. It will be really interesting to see what they do over the next couple of years. If they qualify for the CL the wisdom (according to some) would say they spend all that money on some world class players and push on to challenge for silverware. It should be easy right!? I doubt it will play out like that.

lets give jose a bit of time and a chance and I hope he proves us wrong, if not then I hope ENIC get the next managerial appointment right and we find another Poch to bring the fans the football and attitude that fits with our great club.
To quote a couple of old adages, I think we could say of the last decade at Spurs that we didn't strike whilst the iron was hot (in terms of winning anything) but we did make hay whilst the sun was shining (in terms of facilities). Now if we can manage a third adage and reap what we have sown the entire club atmosphere will change for the better. I do feel that if we don't win anything in the next say 5 years then ENIC will be under pressure from all and sundry.

I'm hopeful that Jose can break the hoodoo a bit and get us over the line with his undoubted experience and talent but there's no guarantees for sure. I think it's fair to say that ENIC have created a hulk of club that has a huge amount of potential but a lot of baggage as well. The next few years will determine which side of the fence their efforts are going to fall on I reckon.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,918
We've had a transfer structure since 2004 though (maybe even earlier)? In fact in this country we were probably one of the first to have one in place and is quite probably why we have then been more consistent and pulled away from those clubs (Villa, Newcastle, Everton etc.) we were battling with, or even behind, in the time period since.

Managers have come and gone but how we operate hasn't changed really. We try and buy ahead of the curve for potential talents from smaller clubs or ones we enjoy a financial advantage over. Young British talent like Defoe, Dawson, Lennon, Jenas, Huddlestone, Bale, Rose, Walker, Alli, Sessegnon etc. When that market started to become more difficult to operate in with premium prices, and others continued to open up, we've increasingly looked overseas - from Modric through Eriksen to Ndombele in the present day. Then we're also ready for the opportunistic purchases - eg. raiding crisis clubs like Leeds for Robinson and Lennon, or Pompey for Harry's favourite boys, or a van der Vaart, or PSG players who they need rid of at below market value prices (whatever you think of their abilities, that's the reality).

I'd say how we've operated has been really consistent and a big part of our upward trajectory.

Of course that can be refined and improved and now we're in a bad patch people think it's a lot worse, but on the whole our hit rate and operating in the market, both buying and selling, hasn't been too bad at all.

Personally I think my main area I'd like to see some change now is in the academy. It's come on a lot in the last decade or so, McDermott has been a great servant for the club, but if we're really serious about consistently producing our own players at the very top standard then I'd like to see us putting more resources in to get the best juniors in, having a bit of a shake up in personnel - getting in people who really know what they're doing (I've always asked if Spurs admire Ajax players so much - Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Sanchez, linked with others such as De Ligt etc - why they don't just then get the people who develop them...…?) and try to go on another level.

Edit: Meant to say, from a strategy point of view I think the one area where we aren't consistent, and Levy should get questioned, is on his manager choices. After Redknapp's era, where we did change a bit for him, we seemed to take a deliberate step towards more technical football, high press, possession based attack football under AVB and then Poch. Now we've gone in the completely opposite direction with Mourinho, lower block, more emphasis on defensive qualities, quick counters needing athletic players. That will need a turnover of players. My fear is, and I expect to happen in all honesty, the next manager whenever it comes along we'll be going back in the opposite direction and yet more change and turnover and rebuilding happens again.




Yeah as I said, people like that work at the start of the process when a team/squad needs to be built.

See above on the last bit, I'm not sure we have ever really gone too far away from that M.O. Lets look at the signings since the summer - Ndombele, Clarke, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Gedson, Bergwijn. Spot the trend.....
Disagree. Going from Arnesen to Comolli to Redknapp to AVB and Baldini to Mitchell and Poch to Jose us not a consistent setup.

Not all those managers concentrated on buying young players ahead of the curve and some actively requested to experienced players.

Not saying it is easy but Levy and ENIC have clearly struggled to put a consistent system in place where all are in agreement of the direction of the club.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,918
I am not sure chooses is necessarily the right word, he has to obey terms or potentially has to give up a lot of money.
I assume it is the case with almost all Premier League managers, they will never talk badly about their time with former club, one it may affect them getting another job, but two, contractually they can't. They can about individual players, just not the clubs and management in general.
NDA's when agreeing settlement will be totally the norm in Premier League, I am sure any of our ITK's can confirm that.
Disagree. When Redknapp first left he did speak out a bit and said things like “we’ve never had it so good.” He no longer says things along those lines.

If it was contractual he wouldn’t have said it in the first place.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
Disagree. When Redknapp first left he did speak out a bit and said things like “we’ve never had it so good.” He no longer says things along those lines.

If it was contractual he wouldn’t have said it in the first place.

He said we've never had it so good, whilst he was manager of Tottenham, not after he left, and was in response to fan criticism.

Don't you understand the difference, he cannot criticise the club, or management, that is not doing that in any way shape or form.
He can have a pop at players or fans, that is not against anything contractually at all.

Basic economics yesterday and now basic comprehension. What do you want a lesson about tomorrow ?
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,942
28,069
Watching it now. He's spoken about his time up to Spurs and just starting his piece about his time with us and dealings with Levy.

Spoke very highly of Palacios.

First thing he said about Levy was he had a great relationship with him and praised him for his achievements in getting the training ground and stadium all in place.

About to watch the rest but think those waiting for him to slag off Levy are going to be disappointed.

It's what he said about deadline day being such an important day for Levy. He thrives on it he says.

He also said he was really keen to sign a couple of decent players in January 2012 and Levy said no and brought in Nelson and Saha instead.

So my point is when Harry says 'it's hard to improve the squad I've got' and Poch says 'I'm happy with my squad', you shouldn't always take their words for granted.

Levy doesn't always back the Managers.
 
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