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dudu

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Jan 28, 2011
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I guess in isolation of Jose's stature I can understand why you think that because he is a manager of top pedigree and feels like a big club appointment. However when I look at it under the old manager saying we need a painful rebuild, players showing discontent and therefore a lot of business needing to be done and then you have a manager saying he can do a lot with the resources already available. Then I understand why people see it as ENIC tried the cheaper solution. Not to say in my opinion that is the wrong decision just objectively that is the cheaper and easier route to take.

Completely agree that some will look to blame everything on ENIC in terms of as you say fans were booing poch's team early on and here we are again.

My opinion is Jose needs to be backed by the fans and given a fair crack and that ENIC have taken the actions to try and rectify the mistakes they made in 2018 but will need to go out of their comfort zone and do more business than they usually do in 1 window this summer.

Anyway we seem to be in agreement, all I wanted to do was provide logic to the notion of signing 5 players and show it wasn't outlandish.

Completely agree.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,925
It's why I never got adequate answers when I made the case that bringing a striker for the short term cannot be compared to Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bergwijn etc. If it's not somebody with resale value, they're reluctant.

Waiting for the reply that says 'careful what you wish for' by wanting the signing of the odd experienced head that can plug a few gaps so we can continue to pick up some results in the here and now.
The resale argument is out of date. In recent seasons we've bought Sissoko and Llorente who clearly had no resale value.
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
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The resale argument is out of date. In recent seasons we've bought Sissoko and Llorente who clearly had no resale value.
Sissoko does - he still has a contract so has resale value. Whether it's as much as we paid for him is another matter.

Llorente was different gravy - and a very shit decision to purchase him for £14m. So bizzare.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
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I have historically been an ENIC/Levy supporter. Mistakes have been made along the way but overall we have improved in a way that allows continuity.

But I do have my doubts as to whether they are the right people to take us forward from where we are now. ENIC have always run the club in a pragmatic way but also very progressive. We don't overspend but do a lot to increase our turnover so spending can continually increase.

People talk about Leeds a lot but for me Villa is the better example. Gross financial mismanagement but in O'Neill they had a manager who could get them short term results. Once they had to cut back the manager wanted more funds, didn't get it and quit. Not saying for a second that O'Neill didn't have responsiblity for this but the way the club had been run for a long time meant they were going to have to cut back their spending.

The last two seasons of the stadium build were a disaster transfer wise. TBH transfers, Son and Alli aside, throughout the Poch era were poor.

I have been encouraged by our transfers in the last two windows and hope Jose is the man to turn us into winners. But putting a team together is not going to happen overnight. I give ENIC two more seasons. If transfers and spending don't improve in this time period then I'll accept their time is done.
 

dontcallme

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Mar 18, 2005
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dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
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Nevermind about last night, winning approval to build a tower block is as good as winning the CL....


Yawn. Do you think Levy made the choice between getting a tower block approval and winning the CL?
I get that levy detractors lacking intelligence will give the neg ratings but these sorts of posts are the ones that detract from genuine ENIC/Levy criticism.

The commercial side and turnover improvement are not the reason for us not winning the CL. Our increased turnover is, believe it or not, actually to our benefit.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
I have historically been an ENIC/Levy supporter. Mistakes have been made along the way but overall we have improved in a way that allows continuity.

But I do have my doubts as to whether they are the right people to take us forward from where we are now. ENIC have always run the club in a pragmatic way but also very progressive. We don't overspend but do a lot to increase our turnover so spending can continually increase.

People talk about Leeds a lot but for me Villa is the better example. Gross financial mismanagement but in O'Neill they had a manager who could get them short term results. Once they had to cut back the manager wanted more funds, didn't get it and quit. Not saying for a second that O'Neill didn't have responsiblity for this but the way the club had been run for a long time meant they were going to have to cut back their spending.

The last two seasons of the stadium build were a disaster transfer wise. TBH transfers, Son and Alli aside, throughout the Poch era were poor.

I have been encouraged by our transfers in the last two windows and hope Jose is the man to turn us into winners. But putting a team together is not going to happen overnight. I give ENIC two more seasons. If transfers and spending don't improve in this time period then I'll accept their time is done.

Yep this is where I am with ENIC now.

They've been superb in building us into one of the biggest clubs in the country. the stadium, the training ground, the general view of the club internationally, are all things that shouldn't be ignored in terms of the success of the club.

But for the fans that is all for nothing if the football side of things doesn't move forwards, and we've now hit the first time in a while where the football side is actually going backwards.

The spending on infrastructure is now done.

The spending on the team now needs to be put into place, particularly considering ENIC's choice of manager.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
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Yep this is where I am with ENIC now.

They've been superb in building us into one of the biggest clubs in the country. the stadium, the training ground, the general view of the club internationally, are all things that shouldn't be ignored in terms of the success of the club.

But for the fans that is all for nothing if the football side of things doesn't move forwards, and we've now hit the first time in a while where the football side is actually going backwards.

The spending on infrastructure is now done.

The spending on the team now needs to be put into place, particularly considering ENIC's choice of manager.
The thing with the spending is I didn't really have a problem with keeping net spend low and increase the wage bill. Poch liked slow integration and wanted to hold onto players for a long time. While I liked this in theory, in reality the young players showed little sign of development and our spending stagnated as we weren't selling.

Part of me thinks Poch's ways of doing things played a part in the last two seasons of not spending and wasn't simply about Levy.

The last 2 windows has seen improved spending and hope this continues. However, part of our success was in having a good buying strategy of bringing in talented players and developing them and if they reach superstardom then selling for a profit. I see no need to end this completely.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
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Sissoko does - he still has a contract so has resale value. Whether it's as much as we paid for him is another matter.

Llorente was different gravy - and a very shit decision to purchase him for £14m. So bizzare.

That being the Llorente who with his important goals more than repaid his fee and wages multiple times over.
There are loads of things wrong with the decisions the club have made over the last number of years, but this one is near the bottom of the list.
The shit decision was not to replace him this season with another player that was willing to sit on the bench for the majority of the season.
 
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daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
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That being the Llorente who with his important goals more than repaid his fee and wages multiple times over.
There are loads of things wrong with the decisions the club have made over the last number of years, but this one is near the bottom of the list.
The shit decision was not to replace him this season with another player that was willing to sit on the bench for the majority of the season.
I disagree - it was a total waste of £14m. He scored with his arm in that CL game that sent us through to the semis. He's a useless footballer (for a top 6 team), who was bought on deadline day instead of Keita Balde.

I also vehemently disagree with the idea that another striker coming in should have to sit on the bench. Buy to use tactically as well as for rotation and if you buy well, your player will still get 30-40 games a season.
 

buckley

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2012
2,595
6,073
The time to strengthen the team was when we were at our best under Poch.
If you try to strengthen from where we are now you are just playing catch up .
The problem In my way of thinking was the two windows where we signed one player and no players that inactivity is coming to bite us on the backside . If say we had signed three players in each of those windows we would have at this moment have five more squad players than we do now . I expect to hear " poch would only except certain players " and did not want players he did not sanction .
Unfortunately Poch's record for signing players is not stellar you only have to look at Moura to realise that fact .
It is a known fact that Grealish /Dybala / Fernandes / to name but three were all willing and ready to come to us in fact you could say " they had their coat on ready to make the move "
Now you will hear Dybala had image rights problems which I interpret to mean we needed to pay a bit more to these image right owners.
Grealish was there for the taking with a bit extra cash .
Fernandes was there for the want of a bit extra cash but the ENIC followers will say his club wanted too much money yet he has gone to Unt in a deal that is only a little more than we offered . Now is not the time to splash vast loads of cash its time for ENIC to face up to the fact they cocked things up big time with their penny-pinching and change their modus operandi and fund the right transfers at the right time and also get a person that can identify the proper targets and stop this buying of what has been mostly deadbeats .
They must stop using this " to dare is to do " slogan as they have not lived up to it .
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Stopping giving ENIC any of our money directly via buying tickets or club merchandise is the best and most direct way to send a message to them. It's the only language they speak.

at least you will give ENIC a reason to not buy players
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
The time to strengthen the team was when we were at our best under Poch.
If you try to strengthen from where we are now you are just playing catch up .
The problem In my way of thinking was the two windows where we signed one player and no players that inactivity is coming to bite us on the backside . If say we had signed three players in each of those windows we would have at this moment have five more squad players than we do now . I expect to hear " poch would only except certain players " and did not want players he did not sanction .
Unfortunately Poch's record for signing players is not stellar you only have to look at Moura to realise that fact .
It is a known fact that Grealish /Dybala / Fernandes / to name but three were all willing and ready to come to us in fact you could say " they had their coat on ready to make the move "
Now you will hear Dybala had image rights problems which I interpret to mean we needed to pay a bit more to these image right owners.
Grealish was there for the taking with a bit extra cash .
Fernandes was there for the want of a bit extra cash but the ENIC followers will say his club wanted too much money yet he has gone to Unt in a deal that is only a little more than we offered . Now is not the time to splash vast loads of cash its time for ENIC to face up to the fact they cocked things up big time with their penny-pinching and change their modus operandi and fund the right transfers at the right time and also get a person that can identify the proper targets and stop this buying of what has been mostly deadbeats .
They must stop using this " to dare is to do " slogan as they have not lived up to it .


Are they not starting to do that already though?

Ndombele (200k a week on top of record purchase for us), Lo Celso (don't tell me people went saying that CM was the most important position that needed strengthing last year)

Sacking Poch and hiring Jose would not have been cheap either.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,925
That joke flew entirely over your head.
I took it as yet another tired old joke about ENIC spending away from the pitch.

No different to boring tedious jokes every time we lose of "well at least we have a cheeseroom."

In future anyone joking about the cheeseroom, Googling Danny Rose, Leandro Damiao signing this summer or a missed target writing us a nice letter will get a funny rating from me and a PM thanking you for keeping tired old jokes alive.
 

KikoSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
379
936
The time to strengthen the team was when we were at our best under Poch.
If you try to strengthen from where we are now you are just playing catch up .
The problem In my way of thinking was the two windows where we signed one player and no players that inactivity is coming to bite us on the backside . If say we had signed three players in each of those windows we would have at this moment have five more squad players than we do now . I expect to hear " poch would only except certain players " and did not want players he did not sanction .
Unfortunately Poch's record for signing players is not stellar you only have to look at Moura to realise that fact .
It is a known fact that Grealish /Dybala / Fernandes / to name but three were all willing and ready to come to us in fact you could say " they had their coat on ready to make the move "
Now you will hear Dybala had image rights problems which I interpret to mean we needed to pay a bit more to these image right owners.
Grealish was there for the taking with a bit extra cash .
Fernandes was there for the want of a bit extra cash but the ENIC followers will say his club wanted too much money yet he has gone to Unt in a deal that is only a little more than we offered . Now is not the time to splash vast loads of cash its time for ENIC to face up to the fact they cocked things up big time with their penny-pinching and change their modus operandi and fund the right transfers at the right time and also get a person that can identify the proper targets and stop this buying of what has been mostly deadbeats .
They must stop using this " to dare is to do " slogan as they have not lived up to it .

Fernandes was only more expensive on this winter transfer window because he signed a new contract when the season started.

We could have bought him for way less than United paid.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,925
Fernandes was only more expensive on this winter transfer window because he signed a new contract when the season started.

We could have bought him for way less than United paid.
Don't think that's true. Stories last summer were he had a buyout clause but we had a £58m bid rejected. Utd bought him for a similar fee in Jan.

Stories of his contract signing were that he got a pay rise in the hope this would help him choose to stay over increasing his transfer fee.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
I took it as yet another tired old joke about ENIC spending away from the pitch.

No different to boring tedious jokes every time we lose of "well at least we have a cheeseroom."

In future anyone joking about the cheeseroom, Googling Danny Rose, Leandro Damiao signing this summer or a missed target writing us a nice letter will get a funny rating from me and a PM thanking you for keeping tired old jokes alive.

Hossam Ghaly is on form.

#neverforget
 
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