ENIC...

[Darth Vega]

Stopping giving ENIC any of our money directly via buying tickets or club merchandise is the best and most direct way to send a message to them. It's the only language they speak.

Even though you're right, this is one of those fanciful things that will never realistically happen. Fans of so many clubs have tried all sorts of protests, walkouts etc, only Liverpool have really been successful in pressuring Hicks and Gillet out many years ago.

The reality is we all love the club far too much - it's in the blood. As much as I tell myself i'll stop going, I likely never will unless my financial situation changes and I can no longer afford it. And, even if that is the case, we're a big enough club that someone else will happily take my place; whether that's a tourist or someone on the waiting list, it doesn't really matter.

Owners of football clubs have their fans by the balls and they know it.

 

[Fluteryid]

The fanbase are going to turn more toxic the longer this continues. Charging the highest prices, not investing in quality and the inevitability of Kane leaving isn’t going to end well. We will just become Arsenal without the trophies. Happy Days ?

 

[dudu]

As you say you’re pissed off or you were with ENIC, do you appreciate that we are now feeling the ramifications of that said mistake at this current point in time and it hasn’t been resolved. Yes the business we did in the summer if you look at it in isolation was good, the same as January in isolation, good business. However when you look at the bigger picture which is encompassed by that window that you agree pissed you off, what we have done the last two windows isn’t a resolution, it’s a step in the right direction.

So I do understand when people say we need 5 new players because they’re looking at it as we have to overcompensate with our business to rectify the mistakes past. People are looking at it as that we had a squad which needed 1-2 to take us over the edge at our peak, we then didn’t do business and since then we have lost Dembele, Eriksen, Trippier, Wanyama, Rose from the first team. So I can completely understand why people are saying we need 5 more when you take into account the need to replace players we have lost (some of which we have done so) and also overcompensate because we missed a window. That’s before we even get into debates about our current personnel and replacing those who they deem as not good enough.

Yes we aren’t going to be able to buy 5/6 top class players, that’s unrealistic for any team not named Man City and we need to be creative but I find it strange you admit you were mad at the mistake made before by the hierarchy then dismiss those who are suggesting a resolution to that mistake which we are see the ramifications manifest at this very moment.

Of course, I appreciate the ramifications. I also appreciate the bigger picture and circumstances surrounding what happened when we bought no one a couple of summers ago. Poch, by all accounts, had a part to play and ENIC went a fair way to ensuring that we kept all of our big stars that year which in hindsight, maybe we shouldn't have.

To those looking at it how you put across, I am completely on board with that. I just tend to dismiss the conspiracy theorists who blame everything that goes wrong on ENIC and everything that goes right on luck. That say Levy doesn't spend money but when you point out he does, they just say well, those players haven't turned out to be good. That try and make out buying low and selling high is some kind of footballing crime.

The guy I responded to came in here last night to post #ENICOUT and how he had never seen the twitter mob so angry as he did last night. I'm not sure he falls into that category of people you are talking about.

 

[Hakkz]

Boycott games, walk out at a certain time, protest on the pitch, don’t buy anything in the ground...

Sitting moaning whilst still giving them money really won’t work.

Voting with your wallet is what you can do.

People sitting on a forum saying "Maybe it's time to change the chairman", lol wtf do you expect to happen?

 

[shelfboy68]

The fanbase are going to turn more toxic the longer this continues. Charging the highest prices, not investing in quality and the inevitability of Kane leaving isn’t going to end well. We will just become Arsenal without the trophies. Happy Days ?

It's unfortunate that it's got to this barely a year after opening the stadium and reaching a CL final that the club is in bits.
I was approached last week regarding a protest group against levy/ ENIC etc but I declined because I can't be arsed that is how bad it's got.

 

[Fluteryid]

It's unfortunate that it's got to this barely a year after opening the stadium and reaching a CL final that the club is in bits.
I was approached last week regarding a protest group against levy/ ENIC etc but I declined because I can't be arsed that is how bad it's got.

Apparently there was a punch up in Leipzig between spurs fans over this. Amazing how quickly it’s turned poisonous

 

[rossdapep]

You need to spend money to make money, CL money is that important. Levy is already making excuses about the summer spendings, Mourinho saying Leipzig bench is better than our team, think we all know how this ends up. It was a choice between Pochettino and players and they made the wrong call, think all other clubs would do the same, it's cheaper (in theory). Even most of this sub thought players were much better than they actually are.

I don't think it was possible to stick with Poch as it probably would have been 7-8 new signings due to many losing the fight for him (natural with long term coaches.). If the club had have brought in 3 or 4 during 2018 and we'd had better continuation it would have been easier to stick with him.

 

[Metalhead]

It's unfortunate that it's got to this barely a year after opening the stadium and reaching a CL final that the club is in bits.
I was approached last week regarding a protest group against levy/ ENIC etc but I declined because I can't be arsed that is how bad it's got.

The CL final in hindsight was really a distraction from the direction that we had been heading up to that point and are unfortunately continuing to head.

 

[wrd]

Of course, I appreciate the ramifications. I also appreciate the bigger picture and circumstances surrounding what happened when we bought no one a couple of summers ago. Poch, by all accounts, had a part to play and ENIC went a fair way to ensuring that we kept all of our big stars that year which in hindsight, maybe we shouldn't have.

To those looking at it how you put across, I am completely on board with that. I just tend to dismiss the conspiracy theorists who blame everything that goes wrong on ENIC and everything that goes right on luck. That say Levy doesn't spend money but when you point out he does, they just say well, those players haven't turned out to be good. That try and make out buying low and selling high is some kind of footballing crime.

The guy I responded to came in here last night to post #ENICOUT and how he had never seen the twitter mob so angry as he did last night. I'm not sure he falls into that category of people you are talking about.

Fair enough, I'm not ENIC out I'm ENIC please take responsibility and rectify the situation and unfortunately I only see one way of doing so. Poch has to share his part of the blame for being part of those in charge. However he is gone and ENIC are here and therefore they have to take responsibility.

I think that they were hopeful they could rectify it by replacing the manager who clearly told them we had a fantastic squad and that he felt he could get something out of what we already have. However that hasn't happened so I'm looking at ENIC taking responsibility and want them to rectify the issue by investing in the squad because it seems like the only option if they want to get us back to where we were.

I guess the concern is whether they're willing to and I can understand the discontent given the meeting last week and the words spoke. What I will say is action speak louder than words and that they have spent money over the last 2 windows even if it didn't fill the glaring holes in our team but here's hoping they continue in the same trend as the previous 2 windows and finally resolve the issues. If they don't then I find it understandable if people voice their frustrstion.

 

[GutBucket]

I don't think it was possible to stick with Poch as it probably would have been 7-8 new signings due to many losing the fight for him (natural with long term coaches.). If the club had have brought in 3 or 4 during 2018 and we'd had better continuation it would have been easier to stick with him.

I don't think many lost fight to play for him and all those were meant to be replaced like Aurier, Toby, Lucas, Rose etc. The only difference with Mourinho is Aurier staying and Foyth probably leaving, maybe Ndombele too (doubt Levy sanctions it). Edit: Another difference Toby obviously.

 

[shelfboy68]

The CL final in hindsight was really a distraction from the direction that we had been heading up to that point and are unfortunately continuing to head.

I totally agree mate I know many people place the decline last February but in actuall fact it started at the beginning of last season.
If you remember we lost a few games in the first couple of months then we picked up, only to fall away again in February which as you say the run to the final masked the problems, which had started that summer without a recruitment drive it's been in decline since.

 

[wrd]

I don't think it was possible to stick with Poch as it probably would have been 7-8 new signings due to many losing the fight for him (natural with long term coaches.). If the club had have brought in 3 or 4 during 2018 and we'd had better continuation it would have been easier to stick with him.

Sounds like that amount of turnover anyway with the exception of Alderweireld. We have already seen 3 leave since Poch left.

 

[dudu]

Fair enough, I'm not ENIC out I'm ENIC please take responsibility and rectify the situation and unfortunately I only see one way of doing so. Poch has to share his part of the blame for being part of those in charge. However he is gone and ENIC are here and therefore they have to take responsibility.

I think that they were hopeful they could rectify it by replacing the manager who clearly told them we had a fantastic squad and that he felt he could get something out of what we already have. However that hasn't happened so I'm looking at ENIC taking responsibility and want them to rectify the issue by investing in the squad because it seems like the only option if they want to get us back to where we were.

I guess the concern is whether they're willing to and I can understand the discontent given the meeting last week and the words spoke. What I will say is action speak louder than words and that they have spent money over the last 2 windows even if it didn't fill the glaring holes in our team but here's hoping they continue in the same trend as the previous 2 windows and finally resolve the issues. If they don't then I find it understandable if people voice their frustrstion.

Right. We have typically spent within our means and I personally think at the very least we will continue to follow that path.

I thoght Jose was the kind of 'signing' that anti ENICers would have been impressed by. Levy spending the bug bucks to get in the best of what was available at the time.

I've said it in this thread and other threads alike. This long into Pochs reign we were getting boo'd off the pitch and there were definitely people chastising ENIC for getting in an unproven at a big appointment Poch.

 

[Metalhead]

I totally agree mate I know many people place the decline last February but in actuall fact it started at the beginning of last season.
If you remember we lost a few games in the first couple of months then we picked up, only to fall away again in February which as you say the run to the final masked the problems, which had started that summer without a recruitment drive it's been in decline since.

Yes! I was thinking a little while ago - when did the high intensity football drift into the predictable, pedestrians football that we ended up with at the end of Poch's tenure.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

and coclhester beat us. do you honestly believe colchester has the same quality across the board just because they beat us?

That was our reserve team; silly comparison. We beat Madrid and Dortmund and Juventus and plenty of top level teams a few seasons ago and made the CL final, now we are out of all cup comps and struggling against likes of Norwich and Burnley and Southampton etc.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I do indeed but I am also very much a pragmatist.

We had 2 windows with no purchases and had reports that Poch could have been purchased players in one of those windows but chose not to. Those windows were the exception to the rule mate. It hadn't happened before and it's not going to happen again. Expecting 5 or 6 ready-made first-team players of your liking in one window is a little unrealistic and when it doesn't happen exactly the way you want it to it's just going to be another stick used for bashing with.

Business has returned to normal. We have now had 2 windows where we have purchased again and spent a fair amount of money on players.

You said it yourself. Look how much things can change in two seasons.

The fact is that people are sad because we aren't very good at the moment and they are as always are looking for someone to blame.

You know when the last time we were this bad was? Pochs first year. Where were we two years later? We were somewhat challenging for the Prem.

Now you're gonna say that was down to Poch, and only down to Poch and it had nothing to do with the hundreds of millions spent on players for him and how much luck was involved in Levy getting Poch. In fact, you point out how good things were a couple of years ago... 2nd best team in the Prem you say, but that has nothing to do with anything that Levy and Co. The work they did to get us to a place where we can increase wages to 200k a year to keep the players you love here, nothing to do with them.

I know you're never gonna change your opinion and that's fine, it the same with most conspiracy theorists. Everything they see is somehow confirmation of their already unbalanced view of the situation.

For me, I'm pissed off with ENIC when they make a mistake and I'm not when they don't. They made an error nearly 3 years ago now due to some pretty specific circumstances we are unlikely to see again.

Yea some good points there mate agree with quite a bit of that.

 

[dudu]

Yea some good points there mate agree with quite a bit of that.

Fair play for saying so!

We are in the shit right now, that is for sure. The new shiny stadium has been actually been somewhat of an anti-climax with everything else that has gone on surrounding our club.

I was hoping it would be the start of a new era but it actually brought about the end of one instead and we are yet to really be able to see any new era insight. Timing has been a bit of a bitch.

But a lot can happen in 2 years in football and as dismal as things are right now, I genuinely believe we have the infrastructure in place to bounce back. If we don't due to lack of investment and further mismanagement by the board and ENIC then I will hold up your ENICout banner with you but personally, I am not yet there.

This summer, as always, will be very interesting and I personally cannot wait for the start of next season and to go again with a new sense of purpose.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Hope some of you, despite the WTF ratings, followed the advice about living in the present (today that's present is the past) in my post in May 2019:

"It’s clear what he is saying. As day. And he is fully correct. Transparency, improved plans, reality check and ambition. And if I were him, which I would never be, I’d completely quit the club after a CL final. It will never get better than this. As fans, we must enjoy the present. This is as good as t gets realistically."

 

[The Long Suffering One]

In terms of on-pitch progress, the stadium has turned out to be an expensive inconvenience.

 

[wrd]

Right. We have typically spent within our means and I personally think at the very least we will continue to follow that path.

I thoght Jose was the kind of 'signing' that anti ENICers would have been impressed by. Levy spending the bug bucks to get in the best of what was available at the time.

I've said it in this thread and other threads alike. This long into Pochs reign we were getting boo'd off the pitch and there were definitely people chastising ENIC for getting in an unproven at a big appointment Poch.

I guess in isolation of Jose's stature I can understand why you think that because he is a manager of top pedigree and feels like a big club appointment. However when I look at it under the old manager saying we need a painful rebuild, players showing discontent and therefore a lot of business needing to be done and then you have a manager saying he can do a lot with the resources already available. Then I understand why people see it as ENIC tried the cheaper solution. Not to say in my opinion that is the wrong decision just objectively that is the cheaper and easier route to take.

Completely agree that some will look to blame everything on ENIC in terms of as you say fans were booing poch's team early on and here we are again.

My opinion is Jose needs to be backed by the fans and given a fair crack and that ENIC have taken the actions to try and rectify the mistakes they made in 2018 but will need to go out of their comfort zone and do more business than they usually do in 1 window this summer.

Anyway we seem to be in agreement, all I wanted to do was provide logic to the notion of signing 5 players and show it wasn't outlandish.