ENIC...

Lighty64

PC huh what a joke, avatar changed
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
9,849
We competed with Poch for the title for 2 seasons, we should have taken a risk the season after Leciester won the league, the summer of 17 we got Sissoko, Janssen, N'koudou and Wanyama.

Wanyama was immense, Sissoko while a beast last year, honestly is a squad player at best. If my memory is correct Sissoko and Janssen were taken as alternatives to first choices. That was the summer where Levy should have taken the risk.
yep Sissoko was instead of Wijnaldum wanted more wages or even Mane same reason, and Batshuayi who was offered more wages ala Willian Chelsea out bidding us something you can't stop with the money they have, and he hasn't torn any trees up since he joined. yes better than Janssen, but I know Janssen was having difficulties settling as at the time I was in contact with a relative of his.
 

Lighty64

PC huh what a joke, avatar changed
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
9,849
what risk? whose money should he have risked?
the only way would be out of the pockets of Lewis and Levy, whatever Lewis would be willing to offer Levy has to offer 15% our lose a % of his ownership. I actually wished Abramovic had been interested and bought off of Sugar (The Sheik obviously was too far after). yes winning trophies would have been superb, he would have also needed to extend the stadium at least to meet today's FFP, because the wages and money he spent wouldn't have helped unless he did what City did and pay companies to sponsor us
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
9,260
The minutes of the meeting between the THST and the Club suggest that the Spurs hierachy's plan is business-as-usual and that they don't believe there is a correlation between spending money on the squad and footballing success.

Meanwhile, in this morning's local paper in Leicestershire, we see what Leicester "Premier League champions 2016 and currently sitting very comfortably above Spurs in the league table" City's attitude is:


Chalk and cheese.
Yep and you can guarantee that Liverpool will invest heavily this summer. Wolves will if they steak a CL spot.

All making the most of their situation, meanwhile our chairman believes that this is the wrong approach.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
9,201
To be honest, as a loyal card carrying member of BSODL I am beginning to lose faith, especially after that verbage coming from Levy in the meeting with the Tottenham trust. We seemed to be fucked!
 

HedgieSpur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2020
Messages
334
As with most things in life, none of the extreme arguments for or against ENIC really tell the whole story. In an earlier post, I gave ENIC 6/10 (4/5 on the commercial side and 2/5 on the footballing operations side). Whether or not ENIC have been a success or not can only be determined if we baseline what success actually means. For some, a healthy balance sheet, a pretty stadium, low net spend are all important for our long term growth. In this respect, they would deem a lack of on field success as inevitable given that we have invested in two huge capital projects in recent years. This, of course is an anathema to others who believe that compromises could have been made (i.e. build a less expensive stadium) and greater investment should have been made in the squad.

My personal view is that ENIC's priorities (not aims) are not aligned with that of most of our fans. Their priorities are to turn NWHL into a multi-sports and entertainment venue that will yield stellar returns for them. To do so they will invest in fixed assets and in projects that will generate recurring revenue for them. They will focus on customer (not fan) experience so that everyone who comes to NWHL spends as much money as possible while they are. The new stadium genuinely is a great place to socialise and prices are lower than that of other comparable venues, so in this respect, again ENIC have delivered on their priorities.

As Spurs fans, we of course want to see us compete at the top table in a footballing sense. Most fans understand that we are not Man Utd or Liverpool and cannot spend billions like Chelsea, but the likes of Dortmund, Ajax, Porto and ourselves under Poch have all shown it is possible to build a competitive squad with the right tools in place. In this respective, on the footballing side, ENIC have been a horror show. By any objective measure we've been a disaster...multiple sackings, many years of poor football, windows in which no/poor signings have been made, terrible conduct with respect to transfers and just 1 trophy to show for it.

My main assertion as to why we have been so poor in a football sense centres around my belief that football success is an AIM but not a PRIORITY for ENIC. Many fans think that the two are inextricably linked but I don't think that they are. I think that ENIC believe that the new generation of fan is looking for a great experience when they go to NWHL. Of course they want the team to win, but if the experience is a fantastic one then they will most likely go back again. In this respect, the footballing successful become incidental in the whole customer experience. The guy who stood on the Shelf having the back of his legs pissed on is not the target fan for ENIC, not least because typically he isn't going to spend a lot of money. The target fans for ENIC are families and those with a connection to the club who will come along and enjoy the day out, irrespective of result.

All of the above really is a preamble for what I believe to be the most salient point. Personally, I don't believe that ENIC wants us to be in CL year after year, as it will require significant investment (with an opaque pathway to a return) and no guarantee of increased value for them. At first glance that appears counter-intuitive. However, even if Joe Lewis and Daniel Levy were huge fans of the club (which they may or may not be), their first priority is to the investment company and hence, as long as we are competing for EL, flirting with CL and doing it all on a small budget, then that is success to them and their first and only priority. Only when that is threatened on an ongoing basis will significant holistic investment (not one off windows, but ongoing investment, window after window) be made.
 

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
10,237
I said it at the time and I'll say it again now - Levy has created the rod for his own back when it comes to hiring Jose. Whether or not you believe Jose is the right man for the job and whether or not you believe he'll be his usual self thougho, the man wasn't brought here to build another like for like project like we got to see under Poch. If the belief that not giving Jose enough of the tools he needs to work with to turn this club/squad around then this summer is going to be what some fans have always wanted to see, while maybe at the detriment to the club itself, Levy under the microscope. If he is as bright a business man as many of you say he is, genuine or snide dig, then he'll need to show it this summer.

Infrastructure is there to see, time to start paying the piper otherwise ...

(I posted this in the Jose thread probably should have been posted here ... I dunno .... Bob)
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
12,761
Take a look at that.
If that lot doesn't tell you all you need to know then nothing will.
It's why I never got adequate answers when I made the case that bringing a striker for the short term cannot be compared to Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bergwijn etc. If it's not somebody with resale value, they're reluctant.

Waiting for the reply that says 'careful what you wish for' by wanting the signing of the odd experienced head that can plug a few gaps so we can continue to pick up some results in the here and now.
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
49,200
It's why I never got adequate answers when I made the case that bringing a striker for the short term cannot be compared to Lo Celso, Ndombele, Bergwijn etc. If it's not somebody with resale value, they're reluctant.

Waiting for the reply that says 'careful what you wish for' by wanting the signing of the odd experienced head that can plug a few gaps so we can continue to pick up some results in the here and now.
Well, we're not in any danger of doing a Leeds and we've been pretty careful what we wish for for far too long. All that remains is to take a stroll to see if the grass isn't actually any greener on the other side.........I suspect it might be :D
 

riggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
41,953
There must be something we can do as fans
Boycott games, walk out at a certain time, protest on the pitch, don’t buy anything in the ground...

Sitting moaning whilst still giving them money really won’t work.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
7,630
I've been asking this for ten years and never had a proper answer so don't hold your breath.
No but thankfully somebody will make a stupid comment with their criticism of Levy which undermines all the people offering a reasonable argument and then folk will respond to that comment as if its a fair representation of what has been said and dismiss everybody with their usual gusto.
 

GutBucket

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
3,070
You need to spend money to make money, CL money is that important. Levy is already making excuses about the summer spendings, Mourinho saying Leipzig bench is better than our team, think we all know how this ends up. It was a choice between Pochettino and players and they made the wrong call, think all other clubs would do the same, it's cheaper (in theory). Even most of this sub thought players were much better than they actually are.
 

topper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
2,007
Take a look at that.
If that lot doesn't tell you all you need to know then nothing will.
Ironically the only way that ENIC will make shed loads is by realising it’s asset i.e. sell the club - it’s just a matter of timing
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
3,522
What a very strange comment. We need 5-6 players to get back to where we want and need to be. Right now we’ve gone from a few seasons ago 2nd best team in the prem and last season CL finalists to now having a near mid table team and squad with 5-6 glaring weaknesses as a result of 2 previous transfer windows of no player incomings at all so we need to have a big summer to make up for that.

Do you not see these weaknesses and want us to improve as a team back to where we were?
I do indeed but I am also very much a pragmatist.

We had 2 windows with no purchases and had reports that Poch could have been purchased players in one of those windows but chose not to. Those windows were the exception to the rule mate. It hadn't happened before and it's not going to happen again. Expecting 5 or 6 ready-made first-team players of your liking in one window is a little unrealistic and when it doesn't happen exactly the way you want it to it's just going to be another stick used for bashing with.

Business has returned to normal. We have now had 2 windows where we have purchased again and spent a fair amount of money on players.

You said it yourself. Look how much things can change in two seasons.

The fact is that people are sad because we aren't very good at the moment and they are as always are looking for someone to blame.

You know when the last time we were this bad was? Pochs first year. Where were we two years later? We were somewhat challenging for the Prem.

Now you're gonna say that was down to Poch, and only down to Poch and it had nothing to do with the hundreds of millions spent on players for him and how much luck was involved in Levy getting Poch. In fact, you point out how good things were a couple of years ago... 2nd best team in the Prem you say, but that has nothing to do with anything that Levy and Co. The work they did to get us to a place where we can increase wages to 200k a year to keep the players you love here, nothing to do with them.

I know you're never gonna change your opinion and that's fine, it the same with most conspiracy theorists. Everything they see is somehow confirmation of their already unbalanced view of the situation.

For me, I'm pissed off with ENIC when they make a mistake and I'm not when they don't. They made an error nearly 3 years ago now due to some pretty specific circumstances we are unlikely to see again.
 
Last edited:

wrd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
7,630
I do indeed but I am also very much a pragmatist.

We had 2 windows with no purchase and had reports that Poch could have been purchased players in one those windows but chose not to. Those windows were the exception to the rule mate. It hadn't happened before and it's not going to happen again. Expecting 5 or 6 ready-made first-team players of your liking in one window is a little unrealistic and when it doesn't happen exactly the way you want it to it's just going to be another stick used for bashing with.

Business has returned to normal. We have now had 2 windows where we have purchased again and spent a fair amount of money on players.

You said it yourself. Look how much things can change in two seasons.

The fact is that people are sad because we aren't very good at the moment and they are as always are looking for someone to blame.

You know when the last time we were this bad was? Pochs first year. Where were we two years later? We were somewhat challenging for the Prem.

Now you're gonna say that was down to Poch, and only down to Poch and it had nothing to do with the hundreds of millions spent on players for him and how much luck was involved in Levy getting Poch. In fact, you point out how good things were a couple of years ago... 2nd best team in the Prem you say, but that has nothing to do with anything that Levy and Co. The work they did to get us to a place where we can increase wages to 200k a year to keep the players you love here, nothing to do with them.

I know you're never gonna change your opinion and that's fine, it the same with most conspiracy theorists. Everything they see is somehow confirmation of their already unbalanced view of the situation.

For me, I'm pissed off with ENIC when they make a mistake and I'm not when they don't. They made an error nearly 3 years ago now due to some pretty specific circumstances we are unlikely to see again.
As you say you’re pissed off or you were with ENIC, do you appreciate that we are now feeling the ramifications of that said mistake at this current point in time and it hasn’t been resolved. Yes the business we did in the summer if you look at it in isolation was good, the same as January in isolation, good business. However when you look at the bigger picture which is encompassed by that window that you agree pissed you off, what we have done the last two windows isn’t a resolution, it’s a step in the right direction.

So I do understand when people say we need 5 new players because they’re looking at it as we have to overcompensate with our business to rectify the mistakes past. People are looking at it as that we had a squad which needed 1-2 to take us over the edge at our peak, we then didn’t do business and since then we have lost Dembele, Eriksen, Trippier, Wanyama, Rose from the first team. So I can completely understand why people are saying we need 5 more when you take into account the need to replace players we have lost (some of which we have done so) and also overcompensate because we missed a window. That’s before we even get into debates about our current personnel and replacing those who they deem as not good enough.

Yes we aren’t going to be able to buy 5/6 top class players, that’s unrealistic for any team not named Man City and we need to be creative but I find it strange you admit you were mad at the mistake made before by the hierarchy then dismiss those who are suggesting a resolution to that mistake which we are seeing the ramifications manifest at this very moment.
 
Last edited:

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
28,484
The minutes of the meeting between the THST and the Club suggest that the Spurs hierachy's plan is business-as-usual and that they don't believe there is a correlation between spending money on the squad and footballing success.

Meanwhile, in this morning's local paper in Leicestershire, we see what Leicester "Premier League champions 2016 and currently sitting very comfortably above Spurs in the league table" City's attitude is:


Chalk and cheese.
I wonder what the reaction there would be if Mourinho came out and said the same thing as Rodgers?

Throwing current players under the bus I suspect will be the answer from some quarters. All Rodgers is doing is putting pressure on his owners to spend in the summer. All managers do it.

I understand your sentiment but if Levy doesn’t believe in spending money, why has he pissed £200 million up a tree in the last year? What he needs to do is sit down, think about how we’ve got to where we have been in recent years and revisit that.

Get a sporting director in like, for example, Mourinho’s mate at Lille or Rangnick at Leipzig and let him build a squad. It will take a few years, but with the appointment of the correct coach it will bare fruit.
 

Metalhead

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
16,975
Well, we're not in any danger of doing a Leeds and we've been pretty careful what we wish for for far too long. All that remains is to take a stroll to see if the grass isn't actually any greener on the other side.........I suspect it might be :D
Yes, the Leeds example is so ridiculous - I don't know why people who use it can't see the difference between Peter Risdale's ridiculous business model and people just occasionally wanting Levy to 'dare is to do' at a critical moment.
 

luptic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
2,209
ENIC problem and Levy's problem has been they thought could do without the constant refreshing of that squad after 16/17.
Along with the penny pinching on our targets.
Hopefully its a lesson learnt. But the extra revenue generated by the club now should in theory help with this season of no extra income from Europe.
Invest in the team and you reap the reward down the line.
The teams falling has been there for all to see since last season.
See for the likes of Kane, Son etc, id be focusing their attention on what's best for us.
 
Top