ENIC...

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
14,839
I don't no why you come on this site as you not a supporter as you have confessed to .
Anybody that chooses not to pay the prices is not a real supporter the clue is in the word support .
If you can't afford the prices and my sympathies go out to anybody who wants to go out can't afford to .
I find the prices difficult myself it is my choice to pay because spurs are my team I am fan a supporter .
If you can afford to pay but choose not to you are not a fan .
The going to away games is just camouflage because anybody would like to be part of the spurs away day experience as anybody will tell you the away days are brilliant win lose or draw .
Choose to pay you are a supporter
Someone who cannot afford to pay but would go if they could you are supporters
You can afford to pay but chose not to you lose the right to call yourself a supporter .
What a load of shite.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
Joined
May 5, 2004
Messages
21,093
I don't no why you come on this site as you not a supporter as you have confessed to .
Anybody that chooses not to pay the prices is not a real supporter the clue is in the word support .
If you can't afford the prices and my sympathies go out to anybody who wants to go out can't afford to .
I find the prices difficult myself it is my choice to pay because spurs are my team I am fan a supporter .
If you can afford to pay but choose not to you are not a fan .
The going to away games is just camouflage because anybody would like to be part of the spurs away day experience as anybody will tell you the away days are brilliant win lose or draw .
Choose to pay you are a supporter
Someone who cannot afford to pay but would go if they could you are supporters
You can afford to pay but chose not to you lose the right to call yourself a supporter .
No, just no. You nor anybody else gets to gatekeep as to who are supporters and who are not.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
2,151
I don't no why you come on this site as you not a supporter as you have confessed to .
Anybody that chooses not to pay the prices is not a real supporter the clue is in the word support .
If you can't afford the prices and my sympathies go out to anybody who wants to go out can't afford to .
I find the prices difficult myself it is my choice to pay because spurs are my team I am fan a supporter .
If you can afford to pay but choose not to you are not a fan .
The going to away games is just camouflage because anybody would like to be part of the spurs away day experience as anybody will tell you the away days are brilliant win lose or draw .
Choose to pay you are a supporter
Someone who cannot afford to pay but would go if they could you are supporters
You can afford to pay but chose not to you lose the right to call yourself a supporter .
I find your post rather offensive. I have not been to a weekend game for a few years. It is entirely because I have two young kids and my time at weekends is much better spent with them. I still watch every game (the power of the internet!) but that is a 95 minute commitment rather than a 4-5 hour commitment (which going to a home game is for me). Plus my kids get to watch Spurs on TV with me and will probably grow up as fans (the poor sods!). I also get to take them swimming, to their music classes, their friends birthday parties and to the park and all the other things I won't get to do if I watch a game in person on a Saturday or Sunday. FYI - I went to WHL on my own a lot in the 90' and 00's s to watch crap football, sing 'stand up if you hate Arsenal', and watch us, more often than not, lose, and then spend 2 hours travelling home after the game. I am a massive Spurs fan and always will be.
 

WiganSpur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
12,066
Clearly Poch didn't agree but I thought Levy did a good job last summer, he brought in 3/4 great players at solid prices. I just find it perplexing when we have situations like this window where it's clear as day we need a striker and it just seems such a battle for the manager to get somebody in.

Just find it truly bizarre considering top 4 is well, well within reach. Why not chuck some money at a loan fee so we can be competitive on the pitch for a next few months which could be pivotal and affect the targets we can bring in long term? If Klopp was vocal about getting a striker in, you just know Liverpool would have done what was necessary and that's sort of the difference.

What i'm saying is that I think the dynamic is not quite right. Sure things are fine because Levy does act when there is a financial case to be made and there is value in the market, but when the on the pitch case is greater than the off the pitch one, he very often doesn't.

Things are not disastrous with ENIC, far from it. Because a lot of the time an increase in the value of their investment correlates with the team's fortunes. However, do I believe things will be better with somebody else? Probably yeah funnily enough because of Levy. With our current levels of revenue and with FFP the days of doing a Leeds are over, and I honestly think most coaches (probably Redknapp aside) would prefer only targeted spending on key areas rather than attempt to bankrupt a football club.

In sum, the bald fella is OK but I think we will push on with the right new ownership. I sort of think of him as a Chris Hughton of the boardroom. Great at getting you into the big league, but then struggles a bit when he gets there. Now we're in the big league maybe it's time for something different.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
17,584
I find your post rather offensive. I have not been to a weekend game for a few years. It is entirely because I have two young kids and my time at weekends is much better spent with them. I still watch every game (the power of the internet!) but that is a 95 minute commitment rather than a 4-5 hour commitment (which going to a home game is for me). Plus my kids get to watch Spurs on TV with me and will probably grow up as fans (the poor sods!). I also get to take them swimming, to their music classes, their friends birthday parties and to the park and all the other things I won't get to do if I watch a game in person on a Saturday or Sunday. FYI - I went to WHL on my own a lot in the 90' and 00's s to watch crap football, sing 'stand up if you hate Arsenal', and watch us, more often than not, lose, and then spend 2 hours travelling home after the game. I am a massive Spurs fan and always will be.
Anyone putting their family over supporting their football team isn’t a real fan.

You’re better than that.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
17,584
As many have said before what is the point of a football club? It's to dream, to hope to reach for glory. It's a chance for us all to live vicariously and love: our life-long romance.

Levy (and yes, he's made many excellent *business* decisions) is without romance and actually when you compare him to other chairmen he only looks good against the incompetents (Leeds (?!), West Ham, Utd, Arsenal). These are appallingly run clubs.

He's clearly not as good as Leicester's owners or Southamptons (look at all the players they've bought and produced over the past decade and the managers they've appointed) or Chelsea's (for all their criticism at being a big spender that isn't that true in the last few years and they've made huge profits from sales while still winning trophies) or Brighton's (who also built a new stadium but through fan ownership and have maintained their status in the Premier league). And look at Liverpool - a team that were behind us and are now so far ahead it seems insurmountable with our current approach because their owners recognise that if you win on the pitch you win off the pitch too.

Levy has failed manager after manager by not backing them. And the policy of buying young prospects at reasonable prices has only just been revitalised after losing out on Grealish, Maddison, Robertson, Maguire, James etc. I bet it was Maguire going to Man Utd for 80m that made him hard for that policy again. The signings of N'Jie and N'koudou were fucking embarrassing and frankly insulting given the position Poch had got us to. And he managed to make that man, so beautifully obsessed with football, fall out of love with the game.

And to go off topic slightly, I think missing out on Sander Berge is a crime. At £22m it's a steal for a highly-rated 21 year old in a position we're desperate for. Even if he was utterly mediocre, we'd get the money back at that age. I think in 18 months he'll be at one of our rivals and will become a PL star. (However, to be fair to Levy, this might not be on him).

However he is a vampire when it comes to the romance of football. But he'll make a fortune and have a picture up of the one League Cup he's won in his time, in his gold-plated bathroom when ENIC finally sell up.

Saying you're grateful to Levy is like growing up in a rich home that's abusive, controlling and devoid of love but being told you're lucky because it's the best house in the world.
I really never understand these posts.

I get that not getting a few extra domestic cups had been disappointing.

But for me seeing us become a CL club and have continued progress has been a joy.

People comparing us to an abusive home suggests you think things are all bad when they’re genuinely not.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
14,839
No, just no. You nor anybody else gets to gatekeep as to who are supporters and who are not.
The funniest thing is I’m sure I’ve seen him post quite a lot of negative stuff about Levy and our transfer dealings.

And whilst I actually agree with him on a fair bit of that, ironically based on what’s he just posted above he must be Levy’s wet dream. Not happy with the way the club are investing on the field, but will pay whatever prices are charged, as long as he can afford it to justify his identity as a supporter.
 

tiger666

Large member
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,488
As many have said before what is the point of a football club? It's to dream, to hope to reach for glory. It's a chance for us all to live vicariously and love: our life-long romance.

Levy (and yes, he's made many excellent *business* decisions) is without romance and actually when you compare him to other chairmen he only looks good against the incompetents (Leeds (?!), West Ham, Utd, Arsenal). These are appallingly run clubs.

He's clearly not as good as Leicester's owners or Southamptons (look at all the players they've bought and produced over the past decade and the managers they've appointed) or Chelsea's (for all their criticism at being a big spender that isn't that true in the last few years and they've made huge profits from sales while still winning trophies) or Brighton's (who also built a new stadium but through fan ownership and have maintained their status in the Premier league). And look at Liverpool - a team that were behind us and are now so far ahead it seems insurmountable with our current approach because their owners recognise that if you win on the pitch you win off the pitch too.

Levy has failed manager after manager by not backing them. And the policy of buying young prospects at reasonable prices has only just been revitalised after losing out on Grealish, Maddison, Robertson, Maguire, James etc. I bet it was Maguire going to Man Utd for 80m that made him hard for that policy again. The signings of N'Jie and N'koudou were fucking embarrassing and frankly insulting given the position Poch had got us to. And he managed to make that man, so beautifully obsessed with football, fall out of love with the game.

And to go off topic slightly, I think missing out on Sander Berge is a crime. At £22m it's a steal for a highly-rated 21 year old in a position we're desperate for. Even if he was utterly mediocre, we'd get the money back at that age. I think in 18 months he'll be at one of our rivals and will become a PL star. (However, to be fair to Levy, this might not be on him).

However he is a vampire when it comes to the romance of football. But he'll make a fortune and have a picture up of the one League Cup he's won in his time, in his gold-plated bathroom when ENIC finally sell up.

Saying you're grateful to Levy is like growing up in a rich home that's abusive, controlling and devoid of love but being told you're lucky because it's the best house in the world.
Jose turned down Berge so no, it isn't on Levy.
 

Dzejkob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Messages
528
As many have said before what is the point of a football club? It's to dream, to hope to reach for glory. It's a chance for us all to live vicariously and love: our life-long romance.

Levy (and yes, he's made many excellent *business* decisions) is without romance and actually when you compare him to other chairmen he only looks good against the incompetents (Leeds (?!), West Ham, Utd, Arsenal). These are appallingly run clubs.

He's clearly not as good as Leicester's owners or Southamptons (look at all the players they've bought and produced over the past decade and the managers they've appointed) or Chelsea's (for all their criticism at being a big spender that isn't that true in the last few years and they've made huge profits from sales while still winning trophies) or Brighton's (who also built a new stadium but through fan ownership and have maintained their status in the Premier league). And look at Liverpool - a team that were behind us and are now so far ahead it seems insurmountable with our current approach because their owners recognise that if you win on the pitch you win off the pitch too.

Levy has failed manager after manager by not backing them. And the policy of buying young prospects at reasonable prices has only just been revitalised after losing out on Grealish, Maddison, Robertson, Maguire, James etc. I bet it was Maguire going to Man Utd for 80m that made him hard for that policy again. The signings of N'Jie and N'koudou were fucking embarrassing and frankly insulting given the position Poch had got us to. And he managed to make that man, so beautifully obsessed with football, fall out of love with the game.

And to go off topic slightly, I think missing out on Sander Berge is a crime. At £22m it's a steal for a highly-rated 21 year old in a position we're desperate for. Even if he was utterly mediocre, we'd get the money back at that age. I think in 18 months he'll be at one of our rivals and will become a PL star. (However, to be fair to Levy, this might not be on him).

However he is a vampire when it comes to the romance of football. But he'll make a fortune and have a picture up of the one League Cup he's won in his time, in his gold-plated bathroom when ENIC finally sell up.

Saying you're grateful to Levy is like growing up in a rich home that's abusive, controlling and devoid of love but being told you're lucky because it's the best house in the world.
Well dude, sorry for my rating but WTF? Let's go sentence by sentence.

As many have said before what is the point of a football club? It's to dream, to hope to reach for glory. It's a chance for us all to live vicariously and love: our life-long romance.
Levy aim was/is to put as at the same level as Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd etc. If that is not a will to reach a glory than I don't know what is. Look how far we were from those teams 20 years ago, 10 years ago and where we are now. You would be talking about how great it would be to play in Europa League if not good club management. Now you are complaining because we are not fighting for title this season.

He's clearly not as good as Leicester's owners or Southamptons (look at all the players they've bought and produced over the past decade and the managers they've appointed) or Chelsea's (for all their criticism at being a big spender that isn't that true in the last few years and they've made huge profits from sales while still winning trophies) or Brighton's (who also built a new stadium but through fan ownership and have maintained their status in the Premier league). And look at Liverpool - a team that were behind us and are now so far ahead it seems insurmountable with our current approach because their owners recognise that if you win on the pitch you win off the pitch too.
Why they are better? From what I know Soton and Brighton are below us in the league. And probalby where for last 10 on more years. Leicester - yeah they are well run club. I agree. Fun fact: after they won the league (also fun fact: if we would won with them at home that season we would be top of the league, I blame Levy for tactic for that game), they sold some key players and where in relegation zone for half of the season. After 2 years of rebuild they are good again. Fun fact: we are rebuilding the team as they had too. And we are not fighting for relegation but still for TOP4.
Chelsea built they reputation by spending money. Yeah they are not doing it now. Maybe they would in the summer if not the transfer ban. That is great example of how well the club is run. Also they have plans to build new stadium probably as long as we have. And they still playing at Stamford Bridge.

Levy has failed manager after manager by not backing them. And the policy of buying young prospects at reasonable prices has only just been revitalised after losing out on Grealish, Maddison, Robertson, Maguire, James etc. I bet it was Maguire going to Man Utd for 80m that made him hard for that policy again. The signings of N'Jie and N'koudou were fucking embarrassing and frankly insulting given the position Poch had got us to. And he managed to make that man, so beautifully obsessed with football, fall out of love with the game.

Just three, go and look at transfer of other club and look how many players they bought that where not good enough. It's just what happens in EVERY CLUB IN THE WORLD. Water is wet, sky is blue, transfers dont work out sometimes.

However he is a vampire when it comes to the romance of football. But he'll make a fortune and have a picture up of the one League Cup he's won in his time, in his gold-plated bathroom when ENIC finally sell up.

Saying you're grateful to Levy is like growing up in a rich home that's abusive, controlling and devoid of love but being told you're lucky because it's the best house in the world.
Get a grip people. One bad season and everybody is going crazy. Support the players on the pitch? No way?! Because Levy is shit so the club doesn't deserve my support. Some of you act like we are going to championship. There always have to be a scapegoat. Poch, Mourinho, Alli, Sissoko, Levy, ENIC... Poch is out, Jose is still not long enough here so I guess it has to be Levy.
 

Wakey

Active Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
31
I really never understand these posts.

I get that not getting a few extra domestic cups had been disappointing.

But for me seeing us become a CL club and have continued progress has been a joy.

People comparing us to an abusive home suggests you think things are all bad when they’re genuinely not.

And I have enjoyed it too - it's been utterly brilliant. I just feel that that extra step that we didn't take is on Levy. That's all.

I don't think things are all bad and if we somehow qualify for the CL and buy appropriate players in the summer then we could be excellent next season. I just don't see it or believe that we will back him though.

Don't misunderstand, I'd love to be wrong and for Levy to back José and we challenge for the league next year. I just think he is a pragmatist rather than a romantic and we'll not take that step.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
17,584
And I have enjoyed it too - it's been utterly brilliant. I just feel that that extra step that we didn't take is on Levy. That's all.

I don't think things are all bad and if we somehow qualify for the CL and buy appropriate players in the summer then we could be excellent next season. I just don't see it or believe that we will back him though.

Don't misunderstand, I'd love to be wrong and for Levy to back José and we challenge for the league next year. I just think he is a pragmatist rather than a romantic and we'll not take that step.
You might want to look at your wording. Comparisons to an abusive home suggests things are really bad.

If you write reasonable posts then people will get your meaning easier.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
10,301
For me Daniel Levy / ENIC have been really good owners. Would anyone seriously want to swap them for Mike Ashley, the Glazers, a dodgy oil state using the club to 'sports-wash' their regime or a money laundering billionaire? I agree that Levy could have been much bolder in his transfer strategy in recent years, but there are a whole host of clubs who would wish they had been a lot less bold with theirs (hello Leeds United). I am old enough to remember how Irving Scholar nearly put us out of business forever in the late 80's. And how Alan Sugar - after initially saving us from oblivion - turned us into mid-table also rans with a dreadfully awful style of football club ownership and investment. Those were key years as the Premier League and the Champions league both formed and we missed out on a seat at the top table. From 1992/3 - 2003/4 we became a second rate club, a poor relation to Man U and Arsenal. A poor relation to the financially doped Chelsea. Miles behind in results, trophies and importantly revenue. In those 12 seasons we only finished 3 of them with a positive goal difference, and those 'best' three years saw league finishes of 7th, 8th and 9th. Other than that we finished in the bottom half of the table. For the younger fans on here, a good comparison would be Bournemouth or Villa in terms of results. And the football was largely turgid (remember the 4 consecutive 0-0s George Graham oversaw?).

It was around 2003 that Levy and Lewis took a controlling interest in ENIC, who in turn took a controlling interest in Spurs. And we really did get our Tottenham back (which the older fans on here will remember we sung a lot in the 90's!). And Daniel Levy started buying up land around WHL with a long term plan to build a new stadium that would put us firmly back at the top table.

Fast forward 17 years, and Daniel Levy has delivered arguably the best football / sports stadium in the world. An amazing training complex. He has overseen us being a team that regularly lost and drew as many games as it won and could only dream of Europa League football, to being a club with 4 consecutive CL campaigns, culminating in reaching the final last season. We've just completed a decade where our worst position was 6th (which was still better than any league finish we managed between 1990 - 2005).

We managed all that with a NET spend of close to zero whilst we built the stadium. That was a necessity. Since the stadium opened our NET spend has been greater than £100M after two windows. Things are changing. Levy just hired Mourinho - he wouldn't have done that if he did not want to win things.
Mr Lewis as the proud owner of our club you are right to bestow the virtues of your young chairman and deliver this rousing speech well said sir.🙏
 

davidmatzdorf

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Jun 7, 2004
Messages
13,788
Clearly Poch didn't agree but I thought Levy did a good job last summer, he brought in 3/4 great players at solid prices. I just find it perplexing when we have situations like this window where it's clear as day we need a striker and it just seems such a battle for the manager to get somebody in.
I refer you to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Manchester United. Their fans, even one Gary Neville, are making the exact same angry noises. But if they can't get one, why should we?

It's January. Players are overpriced in January. Clubs threatened with relegation, or otherwise desperate, buy big in January. Other clubs snap up good deals when they see them, which is what we've just done.

But the main driver of all this relentless frustration is a misunderstanding. We don't buy to improve the current season's finishing position. We just don't, ever. Scarcely anyone does, except for the relegation-threatened and desperate. But we especially don't because our progress back toward being a serious and major player, over the past 17 years, has been about long and medium term planning. The training ground, the stadium, the academy, squad building. Never about improving this season's position, except, of course, for the one winter when we were relegation-threatened and desperate.

People keep expecting us to do it and getting upset when we don't. Then they go "la-la-la" when Mourinho baldly says in his interview, in exactly as many words, that our acquisitions last month were for future seasons.
 

Wakey

Active Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
31
Well dude, sorry for my rating but WTF? Let's go sentence by sentence.


Levy aim was/is to put as at the same level as Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd etc. If that is not a will to reach a glory than I don't know what is. Look how far we were from those teams 20 years ago, 10 years ago and where we are now. You would be talking about how great it would be to play in Europa League if not good club management. Now you are complaining because we are not fighting for title this season.


Why they are better? From what I know Soton and Brighton are below us in the league. And probalby where for last 10 on more years. Leicester - yeah they are well run club. I agree. Fun fact: after they won the league (also fun fact: if we would won with them at home that season we would be top of the league, I blame Levy for tactic for that game), they sold some key players and where in relegation zone for half of the season. After 2 years of rebuild they are good again. Fun fact: we are rebuilding the team as they had too. And we are not fighting for relegation but still for TOP4.
Chelsea built they reputation by spending money. Yeah they are not doing it now. Maybe they would in the summer if not the transfer ban. That is great example of how well the club is run. Also they have plans to build new stadium probably as long as we have. And they still playing at Stamford Bridge.



Just three, go and look at transfer of other club and look how many players they bought that where not good enough. It's just what happens in EVERY CLUB IN THE WORLD. Water is wet, sky is blue, transfers dont work out sometimes.


Get a grip people. One bad season and everybody is going crazy. Support the players on the pitch? No way?! Because Levy is shit so the club doesn't deserve my support. Some of you act like we are going to championship. There always have to be a scapegoat. Poch, Mourinho, Alli, Sissoko, Levy, ENIC... Poch is out, Jose is still not long enough here so I guess it has to be Levy.
Thank you for your polite WTF! Ha! I'm not angry, just sad.

I think Levy's off the pitch strategy has been excellent. I just think he's on pitch strategy has not. He lucked out with Poch and we hugely overachived with him but chose not to back him appropriately. We've only got José cos of Poch.

I'm not complaining about not challenging for the league because we've only done that twice in about 30 odd years. But I am complaining that I don't think that's the aim. I think he sees finishing 2nd-4th as success and that doesn't sit with the 'best stadium in the world' ™, the best training facilities and one of the all time greats at the helm. And you need that belief and aim throughout the club to really achieve it.

I accept that not every signing works out. But when you don't move those who haven't worked out on, and when you take too long to replace the fulcrum of your team then you're only going to go in one direction.

I do support the team. And when I go to the games I love signing, being positive and having a good time. But this is a forum.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
24,608
For me Daniel Levy / ENIC have been really good owners. Would anyone seriously want to swap them for Mike Ashley, the Glazers, a dodgy oil state using the club to 'sports-wash' their regime or a money laundering billionaire? I agree that Levy could have been much bolder in his transfer strategy in recent years, but there are a whole host of clubs who would wish they had been a lot less bold with theirs (hello Leeds United). I am old enough to remember how Irving Scholar nearly put us out of business forever in the late 80's. And how Alan Sugar - after initially saving us from oblivion - turned us into mid-table also rans with a dreadfully awful style of football club ownership and investment. Those were key years as the Premier League and the Champions league both formed and we missed out on a seat at the top table. From 1992/3 - 2003/4 we became a second rate club, a poor relation to Man U and Arsenal. A poor relation to the financially doped Chelsea. Miles behind in results, trophies and importantly revenue. In those 12 seasons we only finished 3 of them with a positive goal difference, and those 'best' three years saw league finishes of 7th, 8th and 9th. Other than that we finished in the bottom half of the table. For the younger fans on here, a good comparison would be Bournemouth or Villa in terms of results. And the football was largely turgid (remember the 4 consecutive 0-0s George Graham oversaw?).

It was around 2003 that Levy and Lewis took a controlling interest in ENIC, who in turn took a controlling interest in Spurs. And we really did get our Tottenham back (which the older fans on here will remember we sung a lot in the 90's!). And Daniel Levy started buying up land around WHL with a long term plan to build a new stadium that would put us firmly back at the top table.

Fast forward 17 years, and Daniel Levy has delivered arguably the best football / sports stadium in the world. An amazing training complex. He has overseen us being a team that regularly lost and drew as many games as it won and could only dream of Europa League football, to being a club with 4 consecutive CL campaigns, culminating in reaching the final last season. We've just completed a decade where our worst position was 6th (which was still better than any league finish we managed between 1990 - 2005).

We managed all that with a NET spend of close to zero whilst we built the stadium. That was a necessity. Since the stadium opened our NET spend has been greater than £100M after two windows. Things are changing. Levy just hired Mourinho - he wouldn't have done that if he did not want to win things.
Good post. Levy would be the first to say they’ve made mistakes, and from recollection he has admitted it. No owner is perfect. I think the real point in which we will know where things will go in the future is when Joe Lewis passes as he is getting on. That’s going to be a big turning point I suspect.

I’ve moan for years about them leaving the manager with one hand tied behind their backs at the start of the season because they start the season without their full squads due to our last minute dealings. It’s infuriating. But overall, if you can’t see what good they’ve done then I’m not sure what to say. One thing I find astonishing is people think levy doesn’t want success. Of course he does. The more successful we are the more money we and him make. It’s common sense.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
2,151
The new stadium is such a big, big factor in all of this. Building a £1Billion stadium is a massive thing. A massive plus for the club in terms of revenue and status (and attracting players) moving forwards. A massive minus in terms of financial constraints for so many years (most now hopefully behind us), and the fact a stadium move is statistically proven to have a negative impact on a team at least two seasons. It is both underrated and under reported that we have already paid 40% of the stadium costs. That £400,000,000 came from somewhere. It was effectively money we did not spend on transfer fees and wages for the last 5+ years. I have no doubt that massively impacted our ability to invest in top quality players in that period, as that project had to be a priority once we were committed. Without the new stadium project I honestly think that we would have won the league under Poch as WHL was a fortress and we moved out just as we hit a golden generation in terms of the first team. The zero net spend during 2014-2019 undoubtedly cost us on the pitch. Imagine that, instead of moving to Wembley we'd been able to spend serious money to strengthen our team? I'm talking £150M on two or three top notch, world class players every summer to supplement the team we had. But we couldn't, didn't, shouldn't have. We were committed to a new stadium to serve us for decades an ensure we have maximised revenue for decades. Tough decision but for me the right one. And I understand that some would disagree and think the playing side should have been prioritised. Just as some people prioritise their pensions and others live for the here and now. There is no right and wrong, just different ways of seeing life.

Moving forwards, I am sure there will be some financial constraints enforced by the terms of our long-term debt financing. I would not be surprised to hear that we have to balance our books in a certain way and can only spend £X on new players and Y% of revenue on wages. But I am confident that this will result in a much bigger NET spend than in any period of our history and much higher wages being paid to our top earners.
 

davidmatzdorf

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Jun 7, 2004
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I think he sees finishing 2nd-4th as success and that doesn't sit with the 'best stadium in the world' ™, the best training facilities and one of the all time greats at the helm. And you need that belief and aim throughout the club to really achieve it.
If you believe what he says, that's not true.

It doesn't sit with his high-achiever, competitive personality either. I'm not sure why people think would Levy, the arch-perfectionist, would obsess over every detail of the stadium to make sure it is The Best, ditto the training ground, ditto the club's community-involvement programmes, etc., etc., but then be satisfied with 2nd-4th. He wouldn't, it's not in his nature. There's an argument that he has not yet been successful in achieving what he wants, but the argument that he isn't driven to want it doesn't make any sense.

I think the main issue is that most fans aren't capable of taking the long view, as in "20 years". Multiple trophies come from being one of the really big clubs. Other clubs maybe win one or two and then disappear for 20 years, often into the lower divisions.

We are nearly one of those big clubs now. As of less than a year ago. Let's give our new status a few years to take effect.
 

Timberwolf

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Jan 17, 2008
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2,205
As many have said before what is the point of a football club? It's to dream, to hope to reach for glory. It's a chance for us all to live vicariously and love: our life-long romance.

Levy (and yes, he's made many excellent *business* decisions) is without romance and actually when you compare him to other chairmen he only looks good against the incompetents (Leeds (?!), West Ham, Utd, Arsenal). These are appallingly run clubs.

He's clearly not as good as Leicester's owners or Southamptons (look at all the players they've bought and produced over the past decade and the managers they've appointed) or Chelsea's (for all their criticism at being a big spender that isn't that true in the last few years and they've made huge profits from sales while still winning trophies) or Brighton's (who also built a new stadium but through fan ownership and have maintained their status in the Premier league). And look at Liverpool - a team that were behind us and are now so far ahead it seems insurmountable with our current approach because their owners recognise that if you win on the pitch you win off the pitch too.

Levy has failed manager after manager by not backing them. And the policy of buying young prospects at reasonable prices has only just been revitalised after losing out on Grealish, Maddison, Robertson, Maguire, James etc. I bet it was Maguire going to Man Utd for 80m that made him hard for that policy again. The signings of N'Jie and N'koudou were fucking embarrassing and frankly insulting given the position Poch had got us to. And he managed to make that man, so beautifully obsessed with football, fall out of love with the game.

And to go off topic slightly, I think missing out on Sander Berge is a crime. At £22m it's a steal for a highly-rated 21 year old in a position we're desperate for. Even if he was utterly mediocre, we'd get the money back at that age. I think in 18 months he'll be at one of our rivals and will become a PL star. (However, to be fair to Levy, this might not be on him).

However he is a vampire when it comes to the romance of football. But he'll make a fortune and have a picture up of the one League Cup he's won in his time, in his gold-plated bathroom when ENIC finally sell up.

Saying you're grateful to Levy is like growing up in a rich home that's abusive, controlling and devoid of love but being told you're lucky because it's the best house in the world.
These comparisons are either very short-termist or just ridiculous. How can you compare Levy's tenure to Abramovic for whom money was no object? Sure Leicester, So'ton and Brighton have all done well in recent years but none of them can match our sustained improvement over a 15 year period or what Levy's done off the pitch. Also, if you take a closer look it's not like each of them are perfect.

So'ton were brilliantly run for a while. However, they sold a lot of players for absolutely tons of money then reinvested a lot of it terribly, hired Mark Hughes and almost got relegated. Do you think their fans were happy last season? They have a negative net spend over the past 5 years which is even lower than ours - I'd bet you anything a lot of their fans are livid that they haven't been more amibitious and invested more in the squad.

Brighton are a well run club but are in a completely different situation to us and this is only their 3rd season in the top flight. They play some nice stuff but there's still every chance they'll get relegated this season.

Leicester have done extremely well in recent years and winning the league was incredible, but I'm still not sure I'd trade our owners for theirs. We're looking at their squad and thinking 'why didn't we buy those players' but you have to remember, that's exactly how everyone looked at us a few years ago. Spurs were the club that everyone looked to as the prime example of assembling a top level squad on a shoestring budget. Now we've had a bit of a wobble and suddenly we're completely inferior to one other team that has, if anything, copied our model. It's such a fickle way of looking at it, and only time will tell if Leicester can sustain this level in the way that we have.

Even Liverpool were horrendously run for ages and it's only since they've managed to get probably the single best coach in the entire world and sold a player for a hugely inflated fee (Coutinho for £135M or whatever) that allowed them to do what they're doing now.

We are literally they only club that has managed to break into the hegemony of the top 4/top 6 without having an absurd cash injection from a rich sugar daddy. We've managed to stay there for a number of years while simultaneously building an incredible stadium and a state of the art training ground. Sure, we've made plenty of mistakes and Levy isn't perfect but the idea that there are tons and tons of better run clubs is patently nonsense and I hate the way so many of our fans take all of the huge positives for granted.
 
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