ENIC...

riggi

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Jun 24, 2008
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41,498
Yes this has been planned for the NLD, probably won't have the same effect without the crowd there.
It’s all bollocks imo. Don’t like them? Don’t give them money. Or do what West Ham did in the ground.
 

midoshairband

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Apr 25, 2006
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1,885
Not sure if it’s been mentioned but apparently there’s a banner going to be flown over the ground for NLD. Enic out.

Embarrassing (and I’m happy to see the back of them)
there was an account on twitter organising it, and asking for donations towards it - they sent me a PM with a paypal account, but i ignored it.
 

hutchiniho

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Mar 19, 2006
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3,120
Where is your evidence for this?

I know that we were heavily linked with him but were we ever likely to bring in Ndombele, Lo Celso AND Fernandes? In one season? I seriously doubt it. My recollection is that, even if one or two ITK snippets suggested that we were after both Lo Celso and Fernandes, most ITK suggested that it would be one or the other. In fact, some ITK suggested that, as far as Spurs were concerned, Fernandes was only ever a stalking horse for Lo Celso.

I understand your frustration. Spurs fans have much to be frustrated about right now. But I see no point getting upset about a mere rumour - especially one that is highly unlikely to be true.
This was widely reported
We changed our bid structure to £46m with £10m in add ons
SL stuck with £60m
Fernandes himself had interviewed to say he had the deal agreed with Spurs. He hadn’t asked for silly wages and his team hadn't made excessive demands with agent fees. (Couldn’t be more perfect for us, how often does that happen?)

SL would have needed to give him permission to do that, so things would have been ok with them.

Levy/ENIC happens

We missed him by £4m. Fact!

whichever way you cut it, we have always played silly beggars with out recent transfer dealings. Trying to cut as many corners as possible.
Burning bridges which the ‘negotiations’

This is also shown in our opening bid for Fernandes, which was £41m with no extras. Low balling by 1/3.
For such a shrewd business man I Just don’t understand it.

As for the ‘we didn’t want him anyway’ ‘2nd choice’ comments. You don’t agree terms with a player if you have no intention of signing him.

this was only ever about not paying the full fee. Again BF said it himself.

GLC was/is initial loan, deferred payment.

This just isn’t the way to get ahead. Liverpool pots of cash, sure maybe, just went out and paid up for the two pieces they needed, that took them from runners up to CL and PL champions. It is the way it has to be done. Even with top coaching and team spirit.

Us however, when so close to winning something. We went a whole year without signing anyone. Not even a bench warmer. Top teams sign the next level player to keep making the firstXI better. Do that the bench gets better to. Everyone needs to be on their toes, performances improve.
Team investment is massive.

we did spend on NDombele this summer that is true. Although there are Huge scouting ??? Marks there. Sissoko and Sanchez are next biggest signings! Our complete recruitment dealings have been really poor.[/QUOTE]
 
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shelfboy68

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Jun 14, 2008
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10,568
It’s all bollocks imo. Don’t like them? Don’t give them money. Or do what West Ham did in the ground.
I don't think it will get like the WHU incident, not unless we are hovering around the bottom six.
Yes your right fan's can stop giving them money I guess, ENIC do need to move on but I don't think they will and it looks like we are saddled with them.
 

Metalhead

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Nov 24, 2013
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There is no way that ENIC are going to sell unless someone offers a shitload of money. The stadium debt plus ENIC will understandably want to make a large profit on top to compensate for the revenue that they could have expected to make for years to come will all add up to an eye watering amount of money.
 

Dillspur

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May 18, 2004
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2,799
There is no way that ENIC are going to sell unless someone offers a shitload of money. The stadium debt plus ENIC will understandably want to make a large profit on top to compensate for the revenue that they could have expected to make for years to come will all add up to an eye watering amount of money.
Considering they brought us for 200m (or whatever the figure was) add a couple of stock buy backs, I'd be surprised if their investment is much more than 300m, any figure over 1b and they've tripled their money.
 

thebenjamin

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Jul 1, 2008
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Considering they brought us for 200m (or whatever the figure was) add a couple of stock buy backs, I'd be surprised if their investment is much more than 300m, any figure over 1b and they've tripled their money.
They bought us for £22m I think
 

SecretLemonadeDrinker

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Jun 30, 2020
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It wasn't a rumour as fernandes confirmed he agreed personal terms with spurs.
Yes. That much is common knowledge.

What I'm asking is where the "information" that Levy "blew the deal" by haggling over £4m came from?

It's just a rumour. And not a very credible one at that given that the great majority of info that we have had suggests that it was Lo Celso that we were after all the time and that Fernandes was only either a backup option or a stalking horse.

There is no way that we were going to sign Ndombele, Lo Celso AND Fernandes. Especially within one season.
 

SecretLemonadeDrinker

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They bought us for £22m I think
That was their initial 29% shareholding. They have since bought further shares (from Sugar and others) and have invested into the club by way of rights issues. I would guess that their overall outlay on Spurs is now in the region of £100m for an 85-90% shareholding. Which represents a mighty fine investment from their perspective, given that they now value the club at north of £1.5b.

They won't be in any hurry to sell cheap, though. My guess is that they still see room for greater capital appreciation.
 

dontcallme

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Mar 18, 2005
Messages
19,058
I have generally been an ENIC fan. I don't mind us not paying out high fees as such and don't mind us doing business within budget. The increased turnover has allowed us to buy higher quality players than were previously available to us.

However, if you want to do things "the right way" then you need to be smarter in every area. Levy has failed to put a system in place to deal with the constant changes in management. He has failed to put a system in place to ensure we have the continuous buying of top young players that appeared to be our MO and a big reason behind our improvements.

The lack of buying for a 3 year period has been a disaster.

The last 2 transfer windows have been very positive but we still have a lot of catching up to do in the transfer market. The next window is huge and excuses about Covid are not going to cut it.
 

SecretLemonadeDrinker

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Jun 30, 2020
Messages
216
This was widely reported
We changed our bid structure to £46m with £10m in add ons
SL stuck with £60m
Fernandes himself had interviewed to say he had the deal agreed with Spurs. He hadn’t asked for silly wages and his team hadn't made excessive demands with agent fees. (Couldn’t be more perfect for us, how often does that happen?)

SL would have needed to give him permission to do that, so things would have been ok with them.

Levy/ENIC happens

We missed him by £4m. Fact!

whichever way you cut it, we have always played silly beggars with out recent transfer dealings. Trying to cut as many corners as possible.
Burning bridges which the ‘negotiations’

This is also shown in our opening bid for Fernandes, which was £41m with no extras. Low balling by 1/3.
For such a shrewd business man I Just don’t understand it.

As for the ‘we didn’t want him anyway’ ‘2nd choice’ comments. You don’t agree terms with a player if you have no intention of signing him.

this was only ever about not paying the full fee. Again BF said it himself.

GLC was/is initial loan, deferred payment.

This just isn’t the way to get ahead. Liverpool pots of cash, sure maybe, just went out and paid up for the two pieces they needed, that took them from runners up to CL and PL champions. It is the way it has to be done. Even with top coaching and team spirit.

Us however, when so close to winning something. We went a whole year without signing anyone. Not even a bench warmer. Top teams sign the next level player to keep making the firstXI better. Do that the bench gets better to. Everyone needs to be on their toes, performances improve.
Team investment is massive.

we did spend on NDombele this summer that is true. Although there are Huge scouting ??? Marks there. Sissoko and Sanchez are next biggest signings! Our complete recruitment dealings have been really poor.
"We missed him by £4m. Fact!"

Where is your evidence? You can't just say "fact" and expect everyone to believe you!

I ask again, what is the likelihood that Spurs - Daniel Levy's Spurs, no less - were ever going to buy three hugely expensive, predominantly central midfielders in one transfer window? I mean, really....does it not make you stop to ask whether, in fact, one of them was only a backup option (a common transfer window strategy, after all)? Isn't it far more likely that, as per the ITK, once Levy finally made the breakthrough with Betis over Lo Celso, Spurs called off the Fernandes deal - not Sporting?
 

S17PUR

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Aug 31, 2006
Messages
1,076
Regardless of whether it was Fernandes or Lo Celso, or Fernandes and Lo Celso, it's looking like a poor decision not to sign the former. I massively rate Lo Celso, but assuming that this was supposed to be our Eriksen replacement, Bruno is so much more similar to Eriksen in the way that he plays.

Gio is brilliant but he doesn't dictate the play in the same way that Eriksen did. Perhaps he will become that player in time, but I'm not seeing it at the minute. He's brilliant but not a playmaker and we seem to be lacking that at the moment.

With the plane thing, it is embarrassing but I hope that Levy does at least recognise the level of discontent amongst the fans. I won't be renewing my season ticket after 13 years (I wasn't going to anyway, but Daniel doesn't know that) and if enough people do the same, it might get his attention.
 

Metalhead

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Nov 24, 2013
Messages
16,244
Considering they brought us for 200m (or whatever the figure was) add a couple of stock buy backs, I'd be surprised if their investment is much more than 300m, any figure over 1b and they've tripled their money.
I’m thinking though - the stadium debt, whilst broken up amounts to around a billion so that would be a debt taken on by the prospective owner and then one has to assume that ENIC will factor in projected earnings from the NFL, maybe TV money and other revenue that they could have expected to earn from the stadium over the next few years? That is assuming that there will be many interested parties at a conservately estimated billion pound outlay.
 

hutchiniho

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Mar 19, 2006
Messages
3,120
"We missed him by £4m. Fact!"

Where is your evidence? You can't just say "fact" and expect everyone to believe you!

I ask again, what is the likelihood that Spurs - Daniel Levy's Spurs, no less - were ever going to buy three hugely expensive, predominantly central midfielders in one transfer window? I mean, really....does it not make you stop to ask whether, in fact, one of them was only a backup option (a common transfer window strategy, after all)? Isn't it far more likely that, as per the ITK, once Levy finally made the breakthrough with Betis over Lo Celso, Spurs called off the Fernandes deal - not Sporting?
Our offer was £46m with £10m in add ons
chief scout Steve Hitchen travelled to Lisbon to make this. This followed the f

SL Stuck to £60m

that’s £4m difference

as it has already been said and you acknowledge BF had agreed personal terms.
You don’t agree terms with someone you have no intention of buying.

again BF himself!!!!!!!!! Has said the deal only failed because we didn’t agree the fee.

and again we offered £56m

Sporting Lisbon president Bruno Varandas has also interviewed to say the SL rejected our offer.

the SL presidentFrederico Varandas also confirmed the the ‘extras were only payable IF we won the champions league and the Premier league. So we were even taking the proverbial eighth there.
Quote - Those are difficult objectives, so we chose not to accept.

our chief scout. BF himself and the SL director and the SL president.
still probably not good enough.

So yes FACT!
 
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Dillspur

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2,799
I’m thinking though - the stadium debt, whilst broken up amounts to around a billion so that would be a debt taken on by the prospective owner and then one has to assume that ENIC will factor in projected earnings from the NFL, maybe TV money and other revenue that they could have expected to earn from the stadium over the next few years? That is assuming that there will be many interested parties at a conservately estimated billion pound outlay.
I know they wouldn't sell for 1b, it's levy. He won't pick up the phone unless the starting offer is close to 2b. I want them out, but like others have said, it's just not feasible. Anyone coming in is probably looking at close to a 3b investment when you add stadium debt and money for the first team. They wouldn't see a return on that investment for years.
 

SecretLemonadeDrinker

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Jun 30, 2020
Messages
216
Our offer was £46m with £10m in add ons
chief scout Steve Hitchen travelled to Lisbon to make this. This followed the f

SL Stuck to £60m

that’s £4m difference

as it has already been said and you acknowledge BF had agreed personal terms.
You don’t agree terms with someone you have no intention of buying.

again BF himself!!!!!!!!! Has said the deal only failed because we didn’t agree the fee.

and again we offered £56m

Sporting Lisbon president Bruno Varandas has also interviewed to say the SL rejected our offer.

the SL presidentFrederico Varandas also confirmed the the ‘extras were only payable IF we won the champions league and the Premier league. So we were even taking the proverbial eighth there.
Quote - Those are difficult objectives, so we chose not to accept.

our chief scout. BF himself and the SL director and the SL president.
still probably not good enough.

So yes FACT!
What you've established there is the fact of what various interested parties said happened. You have not established the fact of what actually happened. They are not necessarily one and the same. Not least because there is one key person's version of events absent from your account.

Once again, I ask you, what is the likelihood that Spurs - Daniel Levy's Spurs - was ever going to sign three hugely expensive, predominantly central midfielders in one window? Once again, I point you to the ITK which insisted long before window's end that Lo Celso was the true target, not Fernandes; that we were not trying to sign both of them; that Fernandes was a backup option; and even that he was a stalking horse for the Lo Celso deal.

You claim that "You don’t agree terms with someone you have no intention of buying". Well, if Fernandes was our backup option, then we absolutely did intend to buy him..............if we couldn't get Betis to budge on Lo Celso. And since there were only days, if not hours, of the transfer window remaining at the time, then it was imperative that the Fernandes deal was oven-ready, short of actual signatures on a contract. This is common strategy late in the transfer window when a club can't be certain of securing its primary target.

Once Lo Celso was finally secured, Levy had to get busy decommissioning the Fernandes deal. How was he to do that? By telling Fernandes that he had been playing him all along and that Spurs never really wanted him? Awkward! Much easier to kill the deal at the eleventh hour by insisting on additional terms or clauses that he knew would be unacceptable to Sporting.
 
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