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Spartan Spurs

MOLLON LAVEH
May 20, 2015
279
905
That's why we must trust Jose if anyone can do it he can.

I'm more willing to trust his tactical approach than his choice in players.
Tactically, he knows how to win.
In the market, he tends to buy older, experienced players with much shorter shelf lives which doesn't bode well for the future.

In this regard, I'd much rather invest in an astute scouting team/system that would consult with him.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
I'm more willing to trust his tactical approach than his choice in players.
Tactically, he knows how to win.
In the market, he tends to buy older, experienced players with much shorter shelf lives which doesn't bode well for the future.

In this regard, I'd much rather invest in an astute scouting team/system that would consult with him.
True but I certainly have more trust in him deciding on players than levy, we have tried scouting system and DOF before yet everytime it fails, who or what is the reason behind the constant failure.
 

Spartan Spurs

MOLLON LAVEH
May 20, 2015
279
905
True but I certainly have more trust in him deciding on players than levy, we have tried scouting system and DOF before yet everytime it fails, who or what is the reason behind the constant failure.

I agree.

But having a fiscally responsible DoF with top scouting team (similar to Lille's) would seem to be the logical path to take considering our MO under ENIC, It's always been about the bottom line. Give them a budget & let them work their magic.

Nevertheless, this is also Levy's cash cow housing his own money so no chance he's going to leave it in someone else's hands to milk.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
I agree.

But having a fiscally responsible DoF with top scouting team (similar to Lille's) would seem to be the logical path to take considering our MO under ENIC, It's always been about the bottom line. Give them a budget & let them work their magic.

Nevertheless, this is also Levy's cash cow housing his own money so no chance he's going to leave it in someone else's hands to milk.
I’ll never undestand why, if Levy can’t or won’t spend big money on players, he didn’t look at Dortmund, The RB clubs, even the Pozzo-owned clubs and become an incubator for young talent.

His thinking got muddled by Poch overachieving that he didn’t want to sell players to appear like a big club but then couln’t buy more top players in like a big club has to.

In the end it was a log-jam which ground our players and manager into dust.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,351
38,294
You’re post is spot on yet for some reason people only want to blame a single party.

It’s typical of our luck that the pandemic comes along and robs us of the stadium, which was meant to pull us level with the other financial big boys. For example, I’ve seen that although we spent similar to Liverpool since Klopp has been appointed that during that time he’s had £500 million more to spend on wages in that time. That’s a massive advantage in quality of player you’re able to attract. Only now could we close that wage gap but that’s been taken away from us.
Only temporarily though.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,351
38,294
It’s odd how the event of Liverpool winning the league has galvanized a reflux aimed at our owners. And not all that surprising, tbh. Yet, if it had been City again or Chelsea or UtD there probably wouldn’t be this level of vitriol. I guess it niggles, as for a period we were often finishing above Liverpool. And three years ago it felt like we had the world at our feet. Great young club, amazing manager and the launch of an outstanding stadium on the near horizon. Yet, we’ve been in a backslide over the past two seasons and completely outpaced by Liverpool’s development and watched them overtake us and become one of the best in the world, if not the best. I guess we look at them and feel... that should be us... and maybe the only reason it’s not, has something to do with the way the club is run. Which I certainly understand and in parts agree with that sentiment, I also feel there’s been other factors at play that have also taken a toll on our fortunes, that aren’t completely the fault of ENIC or Levy. But yeah, there is something about it that chafes. I guess it feels like our future fortunes were usurped. And then we see Chelsea reloading, City being City, UtD bouncing back and you have the specter of Newcastle about to become a footballing superpower, fueled by mega rich owners... it all amounts to a a sense that we may find ourselves back where we were ten years ago... constantly outside the top 5, envious, yet unable to compete.

Not saying that’s a certainty, but you can absolutely sympathize with that existential sense of angst... a depressing foreboding that none of us want to feel, especially after spending three or four years touching nirvana, yet never quite being fully embraced by greatness. A depressing feeling, that I think leaves us all a bit sick inside. Especially when you look at the past thirty years and see just two trophies in the cabinet. We had glory at the tip of our fingers, and now it feels like it’ll be another generation or more before it’s in our grasp. And frankly, I’m just too old and supported the team for too long to not feel massively dissatisfied and in a state of mourning for a future that never was.
That’s a bit pessimistic. The stadium will generate a lot of money over the long term. How much of that drips through to the transfer budget, who can say but the potential of the stadium is nowhere near being realised (the naming rights deal for example could be a massive financial benefit to the club). The benefit of an absolutely superb training ground hasn’t really been realised. How efficient is the scouting network? Are the best prospects being identified? There is undoubtedly the foundations for success there but for reasons outside of the club’s control (COVID) and within the club’s control (fcked up transfer window), we have had a setback.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
I bet you could have rinsed ManU for Dele 2 years ago.

And what would the response have been to Levy selling a 22 year old with Dele’s incredible record, not least one who was a favourite of our hugely popular manager? Pretty sure this site would be littered with comments like:

Levy only cares about money
We have no ambition
Just a small club mentality
You don’t see our rivals selling our best players

and other such garbage.

People always go on about Pochettino not being backed with no thought for the fact that while he was in charge not one first team player was sold and in fact next contracts for our best players were many and regular.
 

McArchibald

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2010
1,280
5,579
People always go on about Pochettino not being backed with no thought for the fact that while he was in charge not one first team player was sold and in fact next contracts for our best players were many and regular.

Kyle Walker says "hi"...

Sold by Levy for petty cash to strengthen a direct rival - and our football hasn't reached the same heights since.

If ever there was a shining example of Levy's avarice and callous disregard for sporting success, this is it. Case in point.
 
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Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,121
19,829
After reading this article on the guy who runs Liverpool they seem to actually have a plan and have learned from the mistakes. I'm confused by our strategy now mourinho is here in all honesty as he doesn't seem a fit with Levy

 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Oh but it is... Liverpool had been working on a new stadium for many years. Grand plans, but FSG decided to bin the lot because of the prohibitive cost and because it would be hard to replicate the atmosphere of Anfield. So FSG chose the sensible approach instead of the value-maximising one. It chose Football over capital expansion.
The results are there for all to see. They go from strength to strength while we're on the slide back to mid-table mediocrity. I find that pretty grating...

yes but they already had a near on 60k stadium, and due to their history long before ENIC come along sell a hell of a lot more merchandise a year than we could dream of. How the hell do you ever expect us to match paying the wages they do by staying in a 36k stadium?

eventually the wage gap will get closer to theirs and that will only be due to the money generated from the stadium and all the things we can get from it. Yes gutting that most of us will not be alive to see enough success but that’s life so get over it!
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
The Liverpool owners were very brave with their transfer windows after securing Klopp. Learned from previous mistakes with Rodgers and went out and spent huge sums on transfer fees and wages to ensure that the manager had his first choice players. A bold move that ultimately paid off.

I think we are quite risk averse and short sighted in this regard, and a bit too scared of having a big wage bill in the event that it might not pay off. Its certainly paid off for Liverpool, and they are probably one of the most valuable clubs in the world now.

they have been a valuable club for a very longtime which was also in the right place when football become a very rich sport
 

shelfmonkey

Weird is different, different is interesting.
Mar 21, 2007
6,690
8,040
yes but they already had a near on 60k stadium, and due to their history long before ENIC come along sell a hell of a lot more merchandise a year than we could dream of. How the hell do you ever expect us to match paying the wages they do by staying in a 36k stadium?

eventually the wage gap will get closer to theirs and that will only be due to the money generated from the stadium and all the things we can get from it. Yes gutting that most of us will not be alive to see enough success but that’s life so get over it!

Anfield seated 44k before the new stand was built.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Anfield seated 44k before the new stand was built.

fair enough I didn’t realise the kop extension was so big. They still had near on 10k a week more than us and had stayed a top 6 team when money went through the roof. They are a team that will have at least one fan in any town/city or village around the world because of their history.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,679
104,956
yes but they already had a near on 60k stadium, and due to their history long before ENIC come along sell a hell of a lot more merchandise a year than we could dream of. How the hell do you ever expect us to match paying the wages they do by staying in a 36k stadium?

eventually the wage gap will get closer to theirs and that will only be due to the money generated from the stadium and all the things we can get from it. Yes gutting that most of us will not be alive to see enough success but that’s life so get over it!

They’ve been paying their players over a hundred grand a week a long time before we could do it. I remember Glen Johnson being on over £100k a week when he joined them in 2009!
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Kyle Walker says "hi"...

Sold by Levy for petty cash to strengthen a direct rival - and our football hasn't reached the same heights since.

If ever there was a shining example of Levy's avarice and callous disregard for sporting success, this is it. Case in point.
You mean the guy who Pochettino fell out with and only picked thrice in the final 9 games of that season, one of the matches he was dropped for being an FA cup semi v Chelsea?

Must try harder, D-

If anything getting £50m for a player the manager didn’t want an reinvesting it in full (summer net spend of £10m+ (as Gazzaniga fee undisclosed), and season net spend of £35m with a Lucas January arrival) was backing the manager. And the two big signings that summer are both currently first choice in their positions almost 3 seasons and 1 new manager later.
 
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McArchibald

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2010
1,280
5,579
You mean the guy who Pochettino fell out with and only picked thrice in the final 9 games of that season, one of the matches he was dropped for being an FA cup semi v Chelsea?

Must try harder, D-

If anything getting £50m for a player the manager didn’t want an reinvesting it in full (summer net spend of £10m+ (as Gazzaniga fee undisclosed), and season net spend of £35m with a Lucas January arrival) was backing the manager. And the two big signings that summer are both currently first choice in their positions almost 3 seasons and 1 new manager later.
Not really...

Kyle Walker has been instrumental in City's two league titles since his arrival. Levy's gift has solved many problems for them.
We on the other hand have a real problem at RB, and have done so since 2017. KW was not a fringe player when we sold him. Pretending he was is a joke.

As for the money for investments - that should have come out of the business. The point everyone keeps missing.
The destination for stadium revenues, commercial activity and TV rights should be the funding of the first team - not to build a nice stadium to generate wealth for the owners while saddling the club with a mountain of debt ...
Levy has switched the whole purpose of the operation - why we exist and why we do what we do - from giving us fans on-field success to lining his own pocket. And no-one raises an eyebrow...
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Not really...

Kyle Walker has been instrumental in City's two league titles since his arrival. Levy's gift has solved many problems for them.
We on the other hand have a real problem at RB, and have done so since 2017. KW was not a fringe player when we sold him. Pretending he was is a joke.

As for the money for investments - that should have come out of the business. The point everyone keeps missing.
The destination for stadium revenues, commercial activity and TV rights should be the funding of the first team - not to build a nice stadium to generate wealth for the owners while saddling the club with a mountain of debt ...
Levy has switched the whole purpose of the operation - why we exist and why we do what we do - from giving us fans on-field success to lining his own pocket. And no-one raises an eyebrow...
Did I say he was a fringe player? No, I said he was a player the manager no longer wanted and was not playing. That you have to put words in my mouth to prove that selling a player that the manager doesn’t want for a record fee in that position is reason to castigate the chairman says it all really.

I’d much rather we’d kept Walker, he was and is hugely superior to any option we’ve had in that role since, but what is Levy meant to do when the manager goes to him ‘hey boss, I know he’s given us almost a decade great service, is in his prime and is first choice for his country, but I don’t much fancy that fella who likes the hippy crack anymore so do you mind shifting him as I’d rather play Frodo in his position’?
 

sunnydelight786

Chief Rocka
Jan 7, 2007
6,075
4,241
It’s odd how the event of Liverpool winning the league has galvanized a reflux aimed at our owners. And not all that surprising, tbh. Yet, if it had been City again or Chelsea or UtD there probably wouldn’t be this level of vitriol. I guess it niggles, as for a period we were often finishing above Liverpool. And three years ago it felt like we had the world at our feet. Great young club, amazing manager and the launch of an outstanding stadium on the near horizon. Yet, we’ve been in a backslide over the past two seasons and completely outpaced by Liverpool’s development and watched them overtake us and become one of the best in the world, if not the best. I guess we look at them and feel... that should be us... and maybe the only reason it’s not, has something to do with the way the club is run. Which I certainly understand and in parts agree with that sentiment, I also feel there’s been other factors at play that have also taken a toll on our fortunes, that aren’t completely the fault of ENIC or Levy. But yeah, there is something about it that chafes. I guess it feels like our future fortunes were usurped. And then we see Chelsea reloading, City being City, UtD bouncing back and you have the specter of Newcastle about to become a footballing superpower, fueled by mega rich owners... it all amounts to a a sense that we may find ourselves back where we were ten years ago... constantly outside the top 5, envious, yet unable to compete.

Not saying that’s a certainty, but you can absolutely sympathize with that existential sense of angst... a depressing foreboding that none of us want to feel, especially after spending three or four years touching nirvana, yet never quite being fully embraced by greatness. A depressing feeling, that I think leaves us all a bit sick inside. Especially when you look at the past thirty years and see just two trophies in the cabinet. We had glory at the tip of our fingers, and now it feels like it’ll be another generation or more before it’s in our grasp. And frankly, I’m just too old and supported the team for too long to not feel massively dissatisfied and in a state of mourning for a future that never was.
Bravo @jeremystorey you've put into words exactly how I'm feeling and I guess a lot of the older heads who've been through it all. That could and really should have been us celebrating winning a PL and CL but sadly for whatever reason our owners failed to go that extra yard to turn us into winners.

When you take into account 2 of them LFC players that's turned them into winners (Mane/Wijnaldam) were wanted by MP, they had met him and were reportedly ready to sign if we could agree a fee with their clubs/agent yet our owners failed to get the deals over the line. Instead they signed for LFC who didn't even have European football to offer then it hurts that much more. Them 2 + Batshuayi, who MP wanted and was recommended by Bielsa, would've turned our 16/17 team into champions.

No one can convince me otherwise that Mane/Batshuayi wouldn't have got us the goals, when Kane got injured in autumn 16 and we went on that run of 4 draws, to win them games. Instead we had to persist with that donkey Janssen and Sissoko. Sissoko may have reinvented himself as a CM now but that was not the position he was purchased for in the first place. Take into account his fee/wages weren't that far off Mane's and it hurts that much more. Let's not forget that derisory offer we made for Zaha at £12m after they had sold Bolasie a few weeks earlier for £25m. This after MP had said "Now I think we need some players in the second line of offence to help the team compete better and have more quality in the squad because it will be a very tough season with the Champions League". Sadly we don't have owners who value "on the field success" at the top of their priorities.

I've had plenty of disappointments supporting THFC over the last 41 years but never have I felt as crushed as I am right now. The fact I/you/the world knew we were on the cusp of greatness with just a little more addition of quality but the owners decided not to take that opportunity and try doing it on the cheap instead. We are MILES off the top teams now and I just can't see us reaching the levels of 3 years back anytime soon...:cry:
 
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