ENIC...

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
9,102
No, I can see that you will support Spurs all the way, no matter what. I can’t fault your passion or loyalty to the club.

I would say most of us fans are the same. I myself will always support Spurs, come what may.

However, we don’t have to be proud of our club’s actions. It has given our rivals, the media, former players, high profile figures etc the chance to single us out. In a bad way.

During a time when people are looking for good of humanity to be the winner, we will be portrayed as the bad guy amongst the already negatively portrayed Premier League cast.
I haven't said I am proud. Please don't make assumptions.

I'm not into the drama people create and then people who already have an axe to grind, pile on in the name of 'humanity'.

Please.

While you worry about the pay packets of people you've never met and the ramifications on the PR front of a football club. People lose their lives all around the globe.

Bigger picture, this means very little.
 

swarvsta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
592
I haven't said I am proud. Please don't make assumptions.

I'm not into the drama people create and then people who already have an axe to grind, pile on in the name of 'humanity'.

Please.

While you worry about the pay packets of people you've never met and the ramifications on the PR front of a football club. People lose their lives all around the globe.

Bigger picture, this means very little.
You’ve got such a chip on your shoulder.

Mainly because you fail to read things correctly, I think?

I never said ‘you were proud’. I said you have passion and loyalty towards the club.

Just because I explained to you why furloughing staff was not a good business or financial decision, you have decided to totally twist things another way.

I’m fully aware that the effects of the virus are WAY more important than football.

My wife is out working on saving lives, whilst I live in quarantine away from her with my kids. My friend was placed in an induced coma this afternoon. I’m fully aware of the situation.

Quit your philosophical backstabbing at the end of your post, just because you’ve been torn a new one in this utterly pointless ‘debate’.
 

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
9,102
You’ve got such a chip on your shoulder.

Mainly because you fail to read things correctly, I think?

I never said ‘you were proud’. I said you have passion and loyalty towards the club.

Just because I explained to you why furloughing staff was not a good business or financial decision, you have decided to totally twist things another way.

I’m fully aware that the effects of the virus are WAY more important than football.

My wife is out working on saving lives, whilst I live in quarantine away from her with my kids. My friend was placed in an induced coma this afternoon. I’m fully aware of the situation.

Quit your philosophical backstabbing at the end of your post, just because you’ve been torn a new one in this utterly pointless ‘debate’.
Torn a new one?

Settle down.

Imagine being this upset about 2 months furloughed pay with that going on in your own life.

...

Edit:

@DCSPUR instead of reaching for the old down vote buttons perhaps offer up a counter point. It's like dealing with teenagers on here lately who don't get to see the point of view they want, they just lash out. Grown men using a button rather than their brain ... Sad.
 

swarvsta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
592
Torn a new one?

Settle down.

Imagine being this upset about 2 months furloughed pay with that going on in your own life.

...

Edit:

@DCSPUR instead of reaching for the old down vote buttons perhaps offer up a counter point. It's like dealing with teenagers on here lately who don't get to see the point of view they want, they just lash out. Grown men using a button rather than their brain ... Sad.
Your childishness really knows no bounds! :playful:

Thank you re-highlighting the point that you can’t handle someone countering your arguments, so resort to playground style jibes like ‘imagine being this upset’ or ‘you’re sad’.

All whilst spending your every waking hour on a forum, self-proclaiming what a mature grown up you are! Ha.

I’m barely on here, but like a reasoned debate, and stepped into this one as I advise businesses on finance as my profession. Yes, life is shit right now, and for that reason I’m struggling to sleep. A post on here can provide a few minutes of escapism. So what?

Weird comment from someone who has posted 1000s of times on here.

Try to stop yourself being a walking contradiction. (y)
 

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
9,102
Your childishness really knows no bounds! :playful:

Thank you re-highlighting the point that you can’t handle someone countering your arguments, so resort to playground style jibes like ‘imagine being this upset’ or ‘you’re sad’.

All whilst spending your every waking hour on a forum, self-proclaiming what a mature grown up you are! Ha.

I’m barely on here, but like a reasoned debate, and stepped into this one as I advise businesses on finance as my profession. Yes, life is shit right now, and for that reason I’m struggling to sleep. A post on here can provide a few minutes of escapism. So what?

Weird comment from someone who has posted 1000s of times on here.

Try to stop yourself being a walking contradiction. (y)
... this is becoming weird.

You made it personal about you, not me.

The other stuff was directed at another poster.

Think I'll let you finish this off.
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
6,754
Jamie Carragher put it well when we said he (and the football world) expected this from Daniel Levy & Mike Ashley... great company we're in folks.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
10,505
Had a bit of a scare today, my daughter has very mild asthma, but had an attack and trouble breathing after a coughing fit. rung 111 up and when the doctor phoned back, asked us to take her to the Lister hospital. after a few test and lack of signs she was told to come home but steer clear of me, due to asthma and other health issues. guess whose just got home from picking her up:whistle:

doctors believe it was a panic attack, so thankfully she's ok, but the worst 12 hours of my life
Despite people's differences on here and in life I wish your family and yourself safe and well we all need to survive this horrible disease.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
10,505
Jamie Carragher put it well when we said he (and the football world) expected this from Daniel Levy & Mike Ashley... great company we're in folks.
Those people in the football world do know what the characters in the game are like stumbling across each other from time to time.
I don't suppose the spurs board will buckle under public opinion they have committed to this so will have to ride it out.
 

Lighty64

PC huh what a joke, avatar changed
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
9,716
Had a bit of a scare today, my daughter has very mild asthma, but had an attack and trouble breathing after a coughing fit. rung 111 up and when the doctor phoned back, asked us to take her to the Lister hospital. after a few test and lack of signs she was told to come home but steer clear of me, due to asthma and other health issues. guess whose just got home from picking her up:whistle:

doctors believe it was a panic attack, so thankfully she's ok, but the worst 12 hours of my life
just to let you know she's back to normal today, and staying away from me:cry:
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
2,955
I know fans personally who have lost passion for our club because of this. Many on here, and you can see them on social media in their droves also.

How young fans might we lose because of this. This story could hang around the club for years.

Football creates such huge emotion, but nothing is more emotional than people dying.
I think this will be an interesting one to watch play out but I honestly don't think it's the disaster that some people are making it out to be. How many times to we see a football club make an unpopular decision and the media storm is all over within a week or two? I also don't think there are any young fans thinking "I was going to support Spurs but I don't agree with their furlough decision" - it just doesn't work like that.

This can be perfectly summed up by the poster a couple back sharing the Carragher spit photo. That was 2 years ago and now Carragher is throwing his weight around Twitter on a moral high horse. These things always pass and the sour taste in the mouth is often gone before you know it.

In my opinion a lot of the morality/PR stuff is going to be determined by the long-term affects on clubs across the board, and we simply don't know what that looks like yet. If the day comes that a PL club starts laying off non-playing staff that will be a big milestone in terms of how people view these furlough decisions etc.

The last line of what I have quoted really sums things up for me and I couldn't agree more. Football creates emotions among fans and so often what we say or think is based on an emotional response rather than an intellectual one. And now more than ever I think it would be sensible for us to trim our emotional responses to football because there are many more things we could be turning our emotional attention towards.

When Matt Hancock made his comment about football players "doing their bit" or whatever, it was a very throw away comment because they have much more important things to be dealing with. It was the media that reported it as a big story, and then the media who are reporting stuff like Rooney's response as a big story. If we as fans choose to ignore the media frenzy we can protect ourselves from these emotional reactions.

Put another way, I think this will only be a "PR disaster" in the eyes of fans who are interested in that sort of stuff. I don't believe that potential sponsors will be steering clear based on a decision to furlough staff and I don't think that fans will be changing their allegiances based on it either. Once all is said and done I doubt there will be many people who give a shit about the decision at all.

If your job is as a financial advisor I would be really interested to hear your views on what we should have done instead - what you would be advising the club at the moment. Obviously you won't have all the financial details available, but I think it would be interesting if you have examples of other businesses you have advised about this, and maybe what the key circumstances would be in which you would advise to take up the furlough option.
 

swarvsta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
592
I think this will be an interesting one to watch play out but I honestly don't think it's the disaster that some people are making it out to be. How many times to we see a football club make an unpopular decision and the media storm is all over within a week or two? I also don't think there are any young fans thinking "I was going to support Spurs but I don't agree with their furlough decision" - it just doesn't work like that.

This can be perfectly summed up by the poster a couple back sharing the Carragher spit photo. That was 2 years ago and now Carragher is throwing his weight around Twitter on a moral high horse. These things always pass and the sour taste in the mouth is often gone before you know it.

In my opinion a lot of the morality/PR stuff is going to be determined by the long-term affects on clubs across the board, and we simply don't know what that looks like yet. If the day comes that a PL club starts laying off non-playing staff that will be a big milestone in terms of how people view these furlough decisions etc.

The last line of what I have quoted really sums things up for me and I couldn't agree more. Football creates emotions among fans and so often what we say or think is based on an emotional response rather than an intellectual one. And now more than ever I think it would be sensible for us to trim our emotional responses to football because there are many more things we could be turning our emotional attention towards.

When Matt Hancock made his comment about football players "doing their bit" or whatever, it was a very throw away comment because they have much more important things to be dealing with. It was the media that reported it as a big story, and then the media who are reporting stuff like Rooney's response as a big story. If we as fans choose to ignore the media frenzy we can protect ourselves from these emotional reactions.

Put another way, I think this will only be a "PR disaster" in the eyes of fans who are interested in that sort of stuff. I don't believe that potential sponsors will be steering clear based on a decision to furlough staff and I don't think that fans will be changing their allegiances based on it either. Once all is said and done I doubt there will be many people who give a shit about the decision at all.

If your job is as a financial advisor I would be really interested to hear your views on what we should have done instead - what you would be advising the club at the moment. Obviously you won't have all the financial details available, but I think it would be interesting if you have examples of other businesses you have advised about this, and maybe what the key circumstances would be in which you would advise to take up the furlough option.
You make some really valid points.

No one truly knows the cost of our decision. Like you say, it may well depend on what lies ahead. How long will lockdown last? Will clubs who did not furlough go bust/lay off staff?

The main reason I believe the decision to furlough in the way we have is purely based on implied cost of bad publicity.

Carragher’s spit blew over. It was a bad moment, but it wasn’t something that saw people dying.

Coronavirus outbreak has involved the entire world. It has created an outpour of emotion.

To the finance guys, our club is a BRAND. Our brand has been tarnished because of this, in a massive way. You shouldn’t underestimate that.

Go on Twitter and search for Spurs/Tottenham. Click on posts. Check their impact (times seen/comments/retweets).

Type the same into Google News.

All negative. All detailing a rich, greedy club who only think of themselves during an international crisis.

My simple question is this:

Is the amount we will save by furloughing worth this? Absolutely no way.

It’s not just us. Other businesses have made disastrous PR moves too. Virgin spring to mind.

If you offered the club a chance to remove two weeks of negative PR and change that story to sit with positive stories like City, United or Arsenal - how much would they pay?

Way, way more than we are going to save.
 

swarvsta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
592
P.S

I have heard rumours within my industry that we will amend our decision and backtrack on the original plan.

Watch this space.
 

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
9,102
You make some really valid points.

No one truly knows the cost of our decision. Like you say, it may well depend on what lies ahead. How long will lockdown last? Will clubs who did not furlough go bust/lay off staff?

The main reason I believe the decision to furlough in the way we have is purely based on implied cost of bad publicity.

Carragher’s spit blew over. It was a bad moment, but it wasn’t something that saw people dying.

Coronavirus outbreak has involved the entire world. It has created an outpour of emotion.

To the finance guys, our club is a BRAND. Our brand has been tarnished because of this, in a massive way. You shouldn’t underestimate that.

Go on Twitter and search for Spurs/Tottenham. Click on posts. Check their impact (times seen/comments/retweets).

Type the same into Google News.

All negative. All detailing a rich, greedy club who only think of themselves during an international crisis.

My simple question is this:

Is the amount we will save by furloughing worth this? Absolutely no way.

It’s not just us. Other businesses have made disastrous PR moves too. Virgin spring to mind.

If you offered the club a chance to remove two weeks of negative PR and change that story to sit with positive stories like City, United or Arsenal - how much would they pay?

Way, way more than we are going to save.
False.

Like I said at the beginning people chose on this site and other places to ignore the work the club were already doing at the beginning of this nightmare in and around the community in Tottenham.

The PR nightmare you talk about has been perpetuated on sites like this, social media and a few journo's who know how to make print.

The world will continue to turn and burn and the fact that outside of football, in a time of crisis, people on the world stage will happily continue to point score from politics onwards.

This is a storm in a tea cup when you consider, you mentioned it on the personal tip, how life can't even begin to figure out the devastation that has been caused globally and what the knock on effects it will burden in the short, intermediate and long term.

If the board reverse the decision then hopefully folk can move on (back) to the other pressing criticisms this club face on a monthly basis, again here, social media and the media as a whole. After all, those are the folk who enjoy perpetuating it, drama, print, clicks and in some circles 'banter'
 

Doctor Dinkey

Miserable pragmatist
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
2,210
I bet it was great follow in the 60s/70s/80s and even some of the 90s but now it’s become to much of a show
You certainly gotta have deeper pockets now. Have to make sure the players and chairmen have filled their garages with Lamborghinis and their marinas with yachts...
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
2,955
To the finance guys, our club is a BRAND. Our brand has been tarnished because of this, in a massive way. You shouldn’t underestimate that.

Go on Twitter and search for Spurs/Tottenham. Click on posts. Check their impact (times seen/comments/retweets).

Type the same into Google News.

All negative. All detailing a rich, greedy club who only think of themselves during an international crisis.

My simple question is this:

Is the amount we will save by furloughing worth this? Absolutely no way.
On Google news it seems like the story has moved on to the Mourinho/Ndombele thing and Jimmy Greaves. I would imagine that in a few days there will be some newer stories coming out.

In terms of Twitter I have never taken much notice of it. It appears to be constantly full of people slagging off football clubs etc. because it's a mouthpiece for people to voice their opinion without the requirement for knowledge or understanding. It really wouldn't surprise me to see hundreds of thousands of dislikes (or whatever happens) from Twitter users, but it doesn't mean anything.

What I think hasn't been made clear yet is in what way will we lose money from this supposedly bad PR? This isn't a dig - this is a genuine question. When somebody says "this will cost us more in the long run" what revenue streams are we talking about here? My instinct is that the financial cost from bad PR is based on sponsors, and to my mind at least the decision makers at those potential sponsors will have a very different view of the furlough decision than people on Twitter will.

To me it is a storm in a tea cup and will blow over before we know it. Life these days (before the outbreak) is full of people jumping on the Internet to complain about stuff and I view this as a very similar situation. Already there are newer stories about Spurs making the headlines, soon there will be a decision about player pay which will take the headlines, and then if the club reverses the decision after that it will be another story. All of those stories will receive massive criticism on Twitter etc. no matter the content, and all the while I doubt anybody at AIA or whatever is looking to retract their sponsorship deals with the club.

Time will tell I suppose.
 

SpunkyBackpack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
7,831
The amount of people on here who know jack shit about PR rambling on about it is starting to do my head in. It will do the square root of diddly squat to the sponsors, ticket sales or anything else (aside from the larger financial implications of the crisis). This is a sub story within a sub story with a load of other teams wrapped up in a much much bigger story. There might be one or two outliers but nothing will change other than your mate who supports Man City will send you a whatsapp that makes you ashamed every now and again or it'll be harder to do your pissing contest on facebook with a West Ham fan.

We aren't sponsored by the Guardian or Extinction Rebellion, its banks, sweat shop operators and tax 'evaders'. Half our sponsors don't even operate in this country.

For each of the hand wringers and 'i'm giving my season ticket back-ers' there are 50 people who will take their place, half of whom never even knew about the story and half who did and couldn't give a shit.

This forum isnt representative, twitter isnt even representative, you just need to look at any western election or referendum in the last 10 years for that.
 
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Doctor Dinkey

Miserable pragmatist
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
2,210
The amount of people on here who know jack shit about PR rambling on about it is starting to do my head in. It will do the square root of diddly squat to the sponsors, ticket sales or anything else (aside from the larger financial implications of the crisis). This is a sub story within a sub story with a load of other teams wrapped up in a much much bigger story. There might be one or two outliers but nothing will change other than your mate who supports Man City will send you a whatsapp that makes you ashamed every now and again or it'll be harder to do your pissing contest on facebook with a West Ham fan.

We aren't sponsored by the Guardian or Extinction Rebellion, its banks, sweat shop operators and tax 'evaders'. Half our sponsors don't even operate in this country.

For each of the hand wringers and 'i'm giving my season ticket back-ers' there are 50 people who will take their place, half of whom never even knew about the story and half who did and couldn't give a shit.

This forum isnt representative, twitter isnt even representative, you just need to look at any western election or referendum in the last 10 years for that.
I think you're wrong. Bad stories over time will grind down our attractiveness as a club to sponsors. You think that Nike or whoever will be more or less likely to chuck a load of cash at us after this?
Anyway, it's not just about commercial shit. We're talking about the club's responsibilities as a national institution. If you think those sorts of things don't matter, you're singing off a completely different hymn sheet from me. More people care about this sort of thing than you think, I reckon.
 
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