ENIC...

JCRD

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Norwich also furloughing but topping up the 20%. It’s all we had to do. For the PR if nothing else. Although I guess we don’t know if we’ve done that or not, we haven’t said.


There are two issues with the decision by Levy. One, is whether a football club that makes a lot of money, maybe not profits but revenue should go to the government for money? The second is, which is the major one though, why cant the club after taking the decision to furlough not top up the 20%? Thats my biggest grievance and suspect it is a massive part of the backlash
 

sausage

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Come on people, don't have arguments over fantasy numbers and guessing. We don't have any clue as to how the financials of clubs are currently working.



All I think we should be glad of is that our wage % is sufficiently low and doesn't rely too heavily on match day income like a whole host of others. If we were speculating, I'm sure we were planning on a lot of income from sports and concerts in the summer that are unlikely to happen now, so we could still be looking at a huge black hole so let's not make any assumptions about the altruistic nature of any of the players/staff/directors, nor that they have a spare income like Scrooge McDuck and can afford to not be paid. Lots of footballers especially are a bit dense and get rinsed by their agents, "friends" and families, and probably live in their overdrafts.
 

swarvsta

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One thing for certain is, the club should definitely be topping up salaries to ensure employees get their full pay.

It seems we have not done this, but Norwich announced that they are.

There has been a huge backlash about this on social media. It is an outrage.

The club should be covering the shortfall for these members of staff. Many will be fans and are the heart of the club.

The cost of ‘topping up’ salaries would be negligible compared to the negative PR this has already created.
 

nailsy

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So to sum up:

- It's not morally right
- Our financials havent been hit yet

During normal times I grudgingly accept that business is business. The fact that everyone is sticking to this mantra in times like this and calling other people pathetic for expecting a bit of decency is....pathetic.
Absolute nonsense that our financials haven't been hit yet:
Ticket sales
Match day income
TV money
Prize money
Cancelled concerts
Etc.

We need to look at the impact all of this will have on the club now. If we leave it too late to act we might not have a club to support next season and the current employees won't have jobs any more.

Being critical doesn't equate to throwing mud, and I also HAVE included the players in my criticism. At the very least though, we could've waited until the PFA have made a decision one way or another before grabbing whatever bailout they can. Let's stop pretending this measure is the difference between us having and not having a club when all is said and done. If it were, then that would mean spectacular mismanagement on the part of Levy and the rest of the board. It's their job to ensure the club is on a sound footing financially, not ours or the government's. And for the past however many years, that's pretty much all they've been telling us they're doing. There are plenty of businesses and people needing state aid before we or any club of our profile do. It's not "free" money, and we and our children and grandchildren will be paying it back for a LONG time. I'm a contractor currently out of work at the moment, and I could take the compensation being rolled out in June if I wanted to, and I'd be completely entitled to. But I don't intend to as I have a decent amount of money put aside, and can get by on that for now. The fact that it's legal for us to do so, or that others may do so too, doesn't mean we should IMO.
I suspect that announcing this now is an accounting issue. Levy announced this on the last day of the month. It's a shame that the PFA haven't acted faster as I'm sure he would have wanted to announce the cost saving measures together.
And I don't really think Levy can be blamed for not predicting a global pandemic that would have an unprecedented impact on the global/sporting economy. He has been financially prudent in the past, but that doesn't mean that we can survive this without cutting costs in some painful areas.
 

nailsy

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There are a lot of comments in here about players not doing the right thing, so I thought I'd put this in here as a reminder that they aren’t all selfish bastards that only look out for themselves:


Hopefully we'll get an announcement today that players will take a pay cut while this continues.
 

DenverSpur

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I find it strange that no football club(especially those at the top levels) seem to have an insurance policy against the possible loss of income due to individual games, part of, or all of the season being cancelled. Surely it’s good business practice to take out insurance against possible losses?
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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One thing for certain is, the club should definitely be topping up salaries to ensure employees get their full pay.

It seems we have not done this, but Norwich announced that they are.

There has been a huge backlash about this on social media. It is an outrage.

The club should be covering the shortfall for these members of staff. Many will be fans and are the heart of the club.

The cost of ‘topping up’ salaries would be negligible compared to the negative PR this has already created.
Oddly I completely disagree with this topping up business. If they have money to top up salaries then this should offset what is being claimed from the government.

Why does working for spurs make you more special than the rest of the country that it's a PR disaster to not get 100% salary to sit at home?
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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Absolute nonsense that our financials haven't been hit yet:
Ticket sales
Match day income
TV money
Prize money
Cancelled concerts
Etc.

We need to look at the impact all of this will have on the club now. If we leave it too late to act we might not have a club to support next season and the current employees won't have jobs any more.
The key word is "yet". We were out of all cups and he still has our season ticket and ticket exchange money so limited hit on ticket sales. Have we felt the effect of prize money, tv money, concert cancellations yet? Matchday revenue is the main hit.

This thing is going to hit all teams financially and football will need to change. However, our very existence is not going to depend on the government furlough scheme. If we'd signed Giroud in January it probably wouldn't be far off his salary.

He's taking the money because he can, not because it's needed.
 

JCRD

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Also ill be honest im finding it a real cheek that the club has kept all my cash from my sold tickets from my ST - what the fuck? I will use the money to pay for next years ST so id rather they kept it but there are others out there who may want their cash back to help them over the next month to three, four, five monthss
 

PeeEyeEmPee

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I didn’t know about the freeze on ST money, but that too is a piss-take. I have about £500 in mine, and was planning to put it towards next season’s cost. But what if I wasn’t?
 

nailsy

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The key word is "yet". We were out of all cups and he still has our season ticket and ticket exchange money so limited hit on ticket sales. Have we felt the effect of prize money, tv money, concert cancellations yet? Matchday revenue is the main hit.

This thing is going to hit all teams financially and football will need to change. However, our very existence is not going to depend on the government furlough scheme. If we'd signed Giroud in January it probably wouldn't be far off his salary.

He's taking the money because he can, not because it's needed.
Yes, we would have felt the effect already. No-one on here actually knows to what degree though. Is it just the loss of matchday revenue & ticket sales (over £1M per game), or have sponsors suspended payments, etc? We also need to plan for the loss of expected income which could be over £100M by the time this is all over. You don't sit on your hands and wait until it's too late.
Why shouldn't we use the government scheme? The club pays taxes like every other company. The only argument against it is a moralistic one which will never be resolved one way or the other on here.

Also ill be honest im finding it a real cheek that the club has kept all my cash from my sold tickets from my ST - what the fuck? I will use the money to pay for next years ST so id rather they kept it but there are others out there who may want their cash back to help them over the next month to three, four, five monthss
Yes, that's really poor.
 

BPR_U16

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I find it strange that no football club(especially those at the top levels) seem to have an insurance policy against the possible loss of income due to individual games, part of, or all of the season being cancelled. Surely it’s good business practice to take out insurance against possible losses?
Same reason businesses wont get a payout under their business interruption policy - the insurance industry find ways to wriggle out from payment - and in this case if they didn't they wouldn't have enough funds themselves.

When covid was first muttered as being an issue, company i work for checked their policy and with their broker to determine if covered. Broker said one of best policies he had reviewed, and that we would be unless they found a loophole. And they did.

Its just another reason why the Govt have had to get involved more cos the insurance industry has run away.
 

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

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I didn’t know about the freeze on ST money, but that too is a piss-take. I have about £500 in mine, and was planning to put it towards next season’s cost. But what if I wasn’t?
Well don't, instead of putting your hard earned cash back into the coffers of ENIC - make a point and don't.

You, others, hate them this much now is the time to make a stand. You don't like their running of the club, make a point.

Continuing to dig a clubs owners on a message board won't change who they are or what they do - their bottom line, according to most on here, is all they are interested in. Hit them where it hurts then, now is the time, won't have many better chances than this.

Not just you, anyone who dislikes the running of this club.
 

Shadydan

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Yes, we would have felt the effect already. No-one on here actually knows to what degree though. Is it just the loss of matchday revenue & ticket sales (over £1M per game), or have sponsors suspended payments, etc? We also need to plan for the loss of expected income which could be over £100M by the time this is all over. You don't sit on your hands and wait until it's too late.
Why shouldn't we use the government scheme? The club pays taxes like every other company. The only argument against it is a moralistic one which will never be resolved one way or the other on here.



Yes, that's really poor.
Think you've hit a nail there morally I can see why people don't like it but in the interests of our club he's doing what he needs to do. Gonna take a wild swing and say that those complaining that he's doing this which in turn could potentially save us millions are the same ones who want him to spend big money on players in the summer - can't have it both ways.
 

nailsy

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This might be worth a quick read - taken from the Financial statements.

1585723011166.png


1585723964859.png
 

PeeEyeEmPee

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Well don't, instead of putting your hard earned cash back into the coffers of ENIC - make a point and don't.

You, others, hate them this much now is the time to make a stand. You don't like their running of the club, make a point.

Continuing to dig a clubs owners on a message board won't change who they are or what they do - their bottom line, according to most on here, is all they are interested in. Hit them where it hurts then, now is the time, won't have many better chances than this.

Not just you, anyone who dislikes the running of this club.
On what, exactly, are you basing this assumption that I hate ENIC?
 

'O Zio

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They are still employees. Contracts work alongside employment law, and footballers are all classed as employees (in the UK, but not always in other countries).

However, they would potentially have the right to exit their contract if we furloughed them. It would probably have to be a mutual agreement, like we have seen at other clubs.

Personally I feel that footballers really should have offered to take a cut during this current time. I find it impossible to believe that any PL footballer would be relying on their wages to cover monthly outgoings. Even if they have mortgages, they could freeze them for 3 months.

It could have changed a lot of people’s opinions on footballers if they had taken a stand on this together, and given something back from their quite extortionate wages.
I was about to post something similar. It's presumably legally quite complicated for Levy as an employer to force the players to take a pay cut while not cutting the wages of other employee. There's nothing stopping the players clubbing together to cover the 20% for everyone else voluntarily though
 

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg

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@PeeEyeEmPee didn't answer the rest of my response though, eh?

See, you only come out the woodwork to bash the club, especially those in charge - you don't want to engage in debate either, you always reach for the spam button.

That's how I know you [enter choice word here] ENIC.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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Think you've hit a nail there morally I can see why people don't like it but in the interests of our club he's doing what he needs to do. Gonna take a wild swing and say that those complaining that he's doing this which in turn could potentially save us millions are the same ones who want him to spend big money on players in the summer - can't have it both ways.
Transfers are the last thing on my mind. The angle I'm coming from is the more business takes from the Government because it is financially prudent rather than financially essential then one or both of the following will happen:

- the longer it takes to pay the money back
- the shorter it is feasible to adopt public health measures before it can no longer be sustained (i.e. more lives will be lost)
 
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