ENIC...

Lighty64

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He is reducing his salary by 20% isn’t he along with the other directors?

Why would he pay back a bonus? Nobody in any industry would do that without there being terms to its original payment.

He’s not really the one to get your knickers in a twist about. It will be the players should they not reduce their salaries. Again, we don’t know yet if they aren’t. A lot of people getting riled up over not much the regular fan can do about at this stage.
the person you're quoting is 1 of the only people I have on ignore, but he most probably blames Levy for starting the virus in the 1st place, and as you mentioned in another post, Levy's bonus was mentioned in last years figures so was most probably paid it last year
 

Lighty64

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The response to this from the vast majority - who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about - has been pathetic.

Any stick to beat Levy with (and I have beaten him with a few big ones over the years) - this is not one of them.

The players are not employees.

Levy is taking a pay cut.

Every single club in the country will do this very soon. We were just first second to Newcastle.
FYP
 

Lighty64

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So to sum up:

- It's not morally right
- Our financials havent been hit yet?

During normal times I grudgingly accept that business is business. The fact that everyone is sticking to this mantra in times like this and calling other people pathetic for expecting a bit of decency is....pathetic.
sorry? have you been asleep for the last 3 weeks? and how long should we pay the staff for during this period, because we might still be wondering when this season/next season will end/start this time next year
 

PeeEyeEmPee

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The club's current income is £0 so it's approximately £1,375,000 more than the club can afford to pay for through revenue.

I and many others have already explained in detail why football finance isn't as simple as you think and why you can't just turn around and stop paying players either.

Go throw your mud at the players - they're the ones who need to make sacrifices. Don't blame the chairman who's trying to make sure that you still have a club to support at the end of all this.
Something to consider before your next attempt to patronise me: I have an MSc in Sports Management and the Business of Football. It doesn't mean I know everything, of course, but it might disabuse you of your assumptions about how simple I think some of this is.

Our current income isn't £0, unless you believe the only money we make is directly related to game-day. And even if it were, that wouldn't automatically mean we couldn't afford (read: didn't have the money) to pay them.

I've not once suggested we should just stop paying players either. I've said between they and the chairman, it shouldn't have to come to this.

Being critical doesn't equate to throwing mud, and I also HAVE included the players in my criticism. At the very least though, we could've waited until the PFA have made a decision one way or another before grabbing whatever bailout they can. Let's stop pretending this measure is the difference between us having and not having a club when all is said and done. If it were, then that would mean spectacular mismanagement on the part of Levy and the rest of the board. It's their job to ensure the club is on a sound footing financially, not ours or the government's. And for the past however many years, that's pretty much all they've been telling us they're doing. There are plenty of businesses and people needing state aid before we or any club of our profile do. It's not "free" money, and we and our children and grandchildren will be paying it back for a LONG time. I'm a contractor currently out of work at the moment, and I could take the compensation being rolled out in June if I wanted to, and I'd be completely entitled to. But I don't intend to as I have a decent amount of money put aside, and can get by on that for now. The fact that it's legal for us to do so, or that others may do so too, doesn't mean we should IMO.
 

Lighty64

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Yeah - they're a bit of a disgrace too.

As I said, I know I'm naive, but I just can't accept that an industry as sickeningly wealthy as football is already needing government money. They should at least be criticised for operating with such high risk.

I know money is tight but, hand on heart, do you think Levy needs to use the Government scheme? Or is he just being a good businessman by making use of free money?
let me ask you a simple question

when will Covid-19 be gone, and life for those left return to normal (except Spurs we go on a 9 game unbeaten run)?
 

Lighty64

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Very, very hard to find any love for modern football.

Levy I see for 2018/19 trousered 7m pounds - also noting this is the period of the two disastrous transfer windows without a single new player added to the talent pool.

Ordinary staff of THFC. Basically all the people like you and me, have to take pay cuts because the biggest pay cost by far - the players - who receive more money than anyone can think decent, who will never worry where the next dinner is coming from - refuse to help out and volunteer for temporary pay cuts.
those 550 staff include all NON-PLAYING which means everyone from Levy down to Doris the tea lady.

his bonus was related to the work he put into the stadium, nothing to do with what happened on the field
 

Drink!Drink!

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those 550 staff include all NON-PLAYING which means everyone from Levy down to Doris the tea lady.

his bonus was related to the work he put into the stadium, nothing to do with what happened on the field
oh I see, Levy, and our players, are above critical scrutiny and criticism. Levy is just mother Theresa with a talent for spreadsheets. Silly me.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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sorry? have you been asleep for the last 3 weeks? and how long should we pay the staff for during this period, because we might still be wondering when this season/next season will end/start this time next year
let me ask you a simple question

when will Covid-19 be gone, and life for those left return to normal (except Spurs we go on a 9 game unbeaten run)?
Even if Levy claimed £2,500 a month for all 550 people (including himself) then that is less than £1.4M a month (in reality a lot less as lots of staff wont be being paid that much a year). That's not going to be the difference between Tottenham going into administration or not. Even in the current crisis we could probably sell a fringe player to cover that for a good few months.

Who knows when this will be over. I would be a lot less pissed off if we took tax payers money if it's still going in September. Just seems a piss take after only 3 weeks of no football. Just feels like a cold business decision that if the money is there then we should take it.

He's also stopped people taking the credit out of their account. So he's got the money some tourist paid on ticket exchange and also kept hold of the season ticket money (sold the seat twice). I don't know the stats for ticket exchange but if everyone just listed one ticket this season for £60 then that's around £3M.
 
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Lighty64

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oh I see, Levy, and our players, are above critical scrutiny and criticism. Levy is just mother Theresa with a talent for spreadsheets. Silly me.
no one in the world is above critical scrutiny if they are actually guilty

the players on the other hand are all a bunch of wankers if they don't follow suit. if every player in the premiership took a 20% cut in wages, then all non playing staff of all clubs wouldn't be in the position they are or might be, other money could fund the NHS and most probably keep the lower league teams afloat
 

Trees

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Even if Levy claimed £2,500 a month for all 550 people (including himself) then that is less than £1.4M a month. That's not going to be the difference between Tottenham going into administration or not. Even in the current crisis we could probably sell a fringe player to cover that for a good few months.

Who knows when this will be over. I would be a lot less pissed off if we took tax payers money if it's still going in September. Just seems a piss take after only 3 weeks of no football. Just feels like a cold business decision that if the money is there then we should take it.

He's also stopped people taking the credit out of their account. So he's got the money some tourist paid on ticket exchange and also kept hold of the season ticket money (sold the seat twice). I don't know the stats for ticket exchange but if everyone just listed one ticket this season for £60 then that's around £3M.
I’m afraid this is wrong wrong wrong on many counts. The country is struggling and we decide to furlough employees before the players reduction is sorted. The more I think about it, the more this just sums up our club. Great on the business side, but devoid of compassion.
 

Lighty64

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Even if Levy claimed £2,500 a month for all 550 people (including himself) then that is less than £1.4M a month. That's not going to be the difference between Tottenham going into administration or not. Even in the current crisis we could probably sell a fringe player to cover that for a good few months.

Who knows when this will be over. I would be a lot less pissed off if we took tax payers money if it's still going in September. Just seems a piss take after only 3 weeks of no football. Just feels like a cold business decision that if the money is there then we should take it.

He's also stopped people taking the credit out of their account. So he's got the money some tourist paid on ticket exchange and also kept hold of the season ticket money (sold the seat twice). I don't know the stats for ticket exchange but if everyone just listed one ticket this season for £60 then that's around £3M.
but a good % of those won't earn 2.5k, and the other % will have earnt way over. Levy can't claim 2.5k for someone that only earns £800 so know one knows the full bill per month. when your paying 1.4 per month on top of 25 senior players, good knows how many lower level, the manager, his coaching staff, and your not getting a deano in.

you can't sell players until July 1st which is 3 months away. we don't even know if and when this season will finish yet people are still being paid, if it's null and void every club will lose TV money (or pay it back) every club will not receive a payment off of the PL for the position they finish in, UEFA might not pay money out for a clubs partition in the comp, sponsors might ask for refunds, club shops won't be selling as much, and know 1 in the whole wide world has a clue when life will get back to normal.

on the ST thing I've no idea, only a disabled member and don't like Mourinho or his style of football, but wasn't ST originally meant to be starting to be renewed at the end of March. it might have been programmed in to cut off at a time, and not saying you haven't, but perhaps it's in the small print
 

Lighty64

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550 @ £2500 is £1,375,000 a month we're asking the government to help us out with to pay staff. That is almost nothing to a top-tier PL club, and if you're telling me that it's the difference between us staying afloat and going to the wall, then there are serious questions needing to be asked of management. Either way, we shouldn't be the government or tax-payer's problem. Between the chairman and the players, it should never have to come to this.
Ok £2,500 is the maximum anyone will receive per month, which means a lot of staff/directors will be on a lot more % cut than 20%.

so as an example 550 @ £2,500 is £1.375m per month not taking into account all manage, playing/coaching staff's wages, plus what we are paying Poch and his staff while we are taking nothing in at all, how much will the cost be if this virus is still with us in 12 months time
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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but a good % of those won't earn 2.5k, and the other % will have earnt way over. Levy can't claim 2.5k for someone that only earns £800 so know one knows the full bill per month. when your paying 1.4 per month on top of 25 senior players, good knows how many lower level, the manager, his coaching staff, and your not getting a deano in.

you can't sell players until July 1st which is 3 months away. we don't even know if and when this season will finish yet people are still being paid, if it's null and void every club will lose TV money (or pay it back) every club will not receive a payment off of the PL for the position they finish in, UEFA might not pay money out for a clubs partition in the comp, sponsors might ask for refunds, club shops won't be selling as much, and know 1 in the whole wide world has a clue when life will get back to normal.

on the ST thing I've no idea, only a disabled member and don't like Mourinho or his style of football, but wasn't ST originally meant to be starting to be renewed at the end of March. it might have been programmed in to cut off at a time, and not saying you haven't, but perhaps it's in the small print
I wrote my reply before I read @PeeEyeEmPee comments. Theyve said it much better than I could. We're not getting zero money through the door.

As you say it's much less than £1.4M a month. You think that's going to make the difference over 3 months.

It's an interesting split on here. A lot of people are coming in from a purely business angle. Some think this time is different and there are some morals involved.

PeeEyeEmPee said they're not touching govt money as they don't need too. I've taken the hit by going down to 2/3rds time so I can look after my kid. I was even accepting when we were asked to continue paying nursery fees. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it. If I couldn't I'd hope the nursery would understand and not charge me. Is it crazy to ask for some common sense and good faith during this crisis? Or does it always have to be contracts and business? I've also only been given credit for an air fare cancellation (like Levy and our STs). I'd normally go mental and demand my money back but I've just left it as I understand they probably desperately need it right now.
 

Lighty64

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I wrote my reply before I read @PeeEyeEmPee comments. Theyve said it much better than I could. We're not getting zero money through the door.

As you say it's much less than £1.4M a month. You think that's going to make the difference over 3 months.

It's an interesting split on here. A lot of people are coming in from a purely business angle. Some think this time is different and there are some morals involved.

PeeEyeEmPee said they're not touching govt money as they don't need too. I've taken the hit by going down to 2/3rds time so I can look after my kid. I was even accepting when we were asked to continue paying nursery fees. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it. If I couldn't I'd hope the nursery would understand and not charge me. Is it crazy to ask for some common sense and good faith during this crisis? Or does it always have to be contracts and business? I've also only been given credit for an air fare cancellation (like Levy and our STs). I'd normally go mental and demand my money back but I've just left it as I understand they probably desperately need it right now.
what money are we getting then?

it might not be 3 months, when do you stop taking the hit

apparently childcare centres are still charging monthly fees to even those that are not taking their kids in at the moment. if they didn't they would have to close completely which would cause problems for those key workers that have to work, my son and daughter work/worked in the industry. they have to pay the staff that are working all day, and also cover the cost of keeping the centres open. my son and 2 others had to look after 6 children the other day, and 4 the day after, and 2 yesterday, the money paid for those days by the 1's that attended wouldn't cover their wages. my daughter isn't sure if she will get her job back or not yet.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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what money are we getting then?

it might not be 3 months, when do you stop taking the hit

apparently childcare centres are still charging monthly fees to even those that are not taking their kids in at the moment. if they didn't they would have to close completely which would cause problems for those key workers that have to work, my son and daughter work/worked in the industry. they have to pay the staff that are working all day, and also cover the cost of keeping the centres open. my son and 2 others had to look after 6 children the other day, and 4 the day after, and 2 yesterday, the money paid for those days by the 1's that attended wouldn't cover their wages. my daughter isn't sure if she will get her job back or not yet.
Spurs stop taking the hit when the money is no longer chump change. I have a problem with it being done so early as much as anything.

Do you not think it's even more of a piss take if nurseries aren't being helped by the government and are forcing parents to continue paying? (surely the government is helping though?)
 

Lighty64

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Something to consider before your next attempt to patronise me: I have an MSc in Sports Management and the Business of Football. It doesn't mean I know everything, of course, but it might disabuse you of your assumptions about how simple I think some of this is.

Our current income isn't £0, unless you believe the only money we make is directly related to game-day. And even if it were, that wouldn't automatically mean we couldn't afford (read: didn't have the money) to pay them.

I've not once suggested we should just stop paying players either. I've said between they and the chairman, it shouldn't have to come to this.

Being critical doesn't equate to throwing mud, and I also HAVE included the players in my criticism. At the very least though, we could've waited until the PFA have made a decision one way or another before grabbing whatever bailout they can. Let's stop pretending this measure is the difference between us having and not having a club when all is said and done. If it were, then that would mean spectacular mismanagement on the part of Levy and the rest of the board. It's their job to ensure the club is on a sound footing financially, not ours or the government's. And for the past however many years, that's pretty much all they've been telling us they're doing. There are plenty of businesses and people needing state aid before we or any club of our profile do. It's not "free" money, and we and our children and grandchildren will be paying it back for a LONG time. I'm a contractor currently out of work at the moment, and I could take the compensation being rolled out in June if I wanted to, and I'd be completely entitled to. But I don't intend to as I have a decent amount of money put aside, and can get by on that for now. The fact that it's legal for us to do so, or that others may do so too, doesn't mean we should IMO.
sorry you have an MSc in Sports Management, how does that fit in with what's happening. we have not sacked the 550 people, once football is back up and running they will all have jobs again, might not have happened if this was still going on in 12 months time.

how much money will we lose if this season is null and voided?

won't get

TV money around £40m
PL money
CL money
5 fixtures merchandise and income
sponsorships
concerts
Boxing

we will be paying all playing staff still, ok will save on bonuses, but 1st team squad = 25 players, manager, coaches, all player 18 years old and above, and some money for below 18's

the money we are still paying Poch and his staff

what money is coming in at the moment? I doubt it's enough to cover all of the above and the 550 staff that at the moment are on 80% and not £94 UC
 

Lighty64

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Spurs stop taking the hit when the money is no longer chump change. I have a problem with it being done so early as much as anything.

Do you not think it's even more of a piss take if nurseries aren't being helped by the government and are forcing parents to continue paying? (surely the government is helping though?)
that chump change, you don't leave it till you can't do it anymore. at the moment every penny counts, and even if it's £1m per month that might be needed somewhere down the line, it's not as if we aren't already 635m in debt

on the nurseries, they might be helping because some staff are on zero hour contracts (cover staff) and I believe they are on the 80%. I also believe nurseries get some form of a grant
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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that chump change, you don't leave it till you can't do it anymore. at the moment every penny counts, and even if it's £1m per month that might be needed somewhere down the line, it's not as if we aren't already 635m in debt

on the nurseries, they might be helping because some staff are on zero hour contracts (cover staff) and I believe they are on the 80%. I also believe nurseries get some form of a grant
If that money does make a difference then I'm aligned with what PeeEyeEmPee said:

"If it were, then that would mean spectacular mismanagement on the part of Levy and the rest of the board. It's their job to ensure the club is on a sound footing financially, not ours or the government's. And for the past however many years, that's pretty much all they've been telling us they're doing. "
 
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