ENIC...

LeSoupeKitchen

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Levy still has:

- all our season ticket money (and all the credit where seats have been sold on ticket exchange so has money from selling thousands of seats twice)
- all the TV money
- and I'd be surprised if he didn't have all sponsorship money

Yet only weeks from our last game we need a bail out.
Come on @Bobbins and @davidmatzdorf what is not correct about this?
 

Bobbins

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So to sum up:

- It's not morally right
- Our financials havent been hit yet

During normal times I grudgingly accept that business is business. The fact that everyone is sticking to this mantra in times like this and calling other people pathetic for expecting a bit of decency is....pathetic.
Of course they have.

Businesses don't run on a day-to-day basis. Spurs know full well that forthcoming payments from things like the TV contract are going to get hit by this, and have to plan for it. We've also already lost several million in lost matchday revenues and stream income from the shop/merchandising, not just in the UK but around the world.

You suggested in your previous post we have "all the TV money". No we don't. That's not how this works - that's not how any of this works! Only last week there were several articles pointing out how many PL clubs are desperate to finish the season because if they don't they won't receive their part of the remaining £750m-odd on the tv rights contracts.

Do you honestly think our tv and sponsors just give us a billion quid at the start of every contract and we make it last over the lifetime of the deal?

You're living in a fantasy world if you think football is awash with spare cash just sloshing about which can suddenly and easily be re-purposed. Most football clubs operate on the finest of margins and the only time they make any actual money is when the PL prize payments and end of season tv money come in, supplemented by player profits. You only need to look at how transfers are done - in stages, paid over several years, with bank guarantees and forwarding covering the small fees which are actually paid up front.

Football is one of the most financially volatile industries on the planet, and the vast majority of clubs operate almost entirely on a basis of credit and planned incomes. No club is out there sitting with billions in the bank. No club is getting any money in at the moment. All clubs will do this, we're just getting hammered for it.

You can see why the media and other fans are smashing us over this since so many of our own fans not only don't understand how this stuff works, but are actively calling out the club and Levy like they're some comic book supervillain. All I'm seeing on social media etc is our own fans calling Levy "scum/leech/****" etc.
 
Last edited:

SpunkyBackpack

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If he is going to the government, cap in hand after just awarding himself a £1m pay rise, and £3m bonus, then as the owner, he should be looking at home firt.
And also why reduce staff by 20% salary, can he not afford to pay them the 20% delta like most companies in this situation are doing, with our record profits ?
But he didn't "just award himself" anything? You think he can just award himself things? Thats like saying you "awarded yourself" your wages this month, its a thing that is negotiated, offered and agreed with the board who pay his wages. An agreement that was agreed years ago and just happened to be reported a couple of weeks ago because Spurs are a publicly traded company who have certain responsibilities in terms of reporting that always hits around the end of the financial year.

This is not about how much money a business is worth or assets, its about cashflow and there is no cashflow in right now but plenty of cashflow out. As with any organisation like this he has a responsibility to shareholders first and foremost, thats the world we live in.

Come on @Bobbins and @davidmatzdorf what is not correct about this?
Oooh i'll have a go. Its probably because you're guessing on how everything is paid and where money actually is. Do you know how the tv money is paid? What caveats are in place to restrict payment if no games are played? Same with sponsors, same with everything.

Credit card companies will likely be holding a shitload of cash back right now, they can hold 90% of payments made on credit cards if they so choose, which means no access to a fuckton of cash so there may be no ticket money.

It's not Football Manager, none of us have any clue how the cash situation is being affected.


**edit**

Bollocks, i spent so much time faffing with multiquotes and getting confused Bobbins got there first.
 

timboyid

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May 7, 2006
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682
So to sum up:

- It's not morally right
- Our financials havent been hit yet

During normal times I grudgingly accept that business is business. The fact that everyone is sticking to this mantra in times like this and calling other people pathetic for expecting a bit of decency is....pathetic.
To sum up, I didn’t call anyone pathetic. Please keep it civil.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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Aug 18, 2011
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Of course they have.

Businesses don't run on a day-to-day basis. Spurs know full well that forthcoming payments from things like the TV contract are going to get hit by this, and have to plan for it. We've also already lost several million in lost matchday revenues and stream income from the shop/merchandising, not just in the UK but around the world.

You also suggested in your previous post we have "all the TV money". No we don't. That's not how this works - that's not how any of this works! Only last week there were several articles pointing out how many PL clubs are desperate to finish the season because if they don't they won't receive their part of the remaining £750m-odd on the tv rights contracts.

Do you honestly think our tv and sponsors just give us a billion quid at the start of every contract and we make it last over the lifetime of the deal?

You're living in a fantasy world if you think football is awash with spare cash just sloshing about which can suddenly and easily be re-purposed. Most football clubs operate on the finest or margins and the only time they make any actual money is when the PL prize payments and end of season tv money come in, supplemented by player profits.
I may be being naive thinking there is all this cash sloshing around but at this point in time they should not have taken that much of a hit. Why aren't you up in arms that a business is operating on such a fine margin? They can find enough cash to pay NDombele his sickening salary.

I just find it amazing how much this club can take the piss and people be fine with it. They've already helped themselves to an interest free loan from season ticket holders by stopping us taking our cash out without even care that we might have lost our jobs. And now they are getting government money. It's been three weeks.
 

Bobbins

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I may be being naive thinking there is all this cash sloshing around but at this point in time they should not have taken that much of a hit. Why aren't you up in arms that a business is operating on such a fine margin? They can find enough cash to pay NDombele his sickening salary.

I just find it amazing how much this club can take the piss and people be fine with it. They've already helped themselves to an interest free loan from season ticket holders by stopping us taking our cash out without even care that we might have lost our jobs. And now they are getting government money. It's been three weeks.
It's not the club mate, it's the players you should be criticising if anyone. They have the power, collectively at the club and through the PFA, to willingly cut their wages to not only help their individual clubs, but more importantly the staff they work with every day.

Every football club in the country could easily pay all its staff, suppliers and affiliates/charities/partners in full if they had 50% less they had to pay the players.

EDIT: The pathetic comment was aimed at the response to the story - and that response has been absolutely pathetic. I didn't call out any individuals.
 

timboyid

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The pathetic thing was aimed at Bobbins not you - sorry if you got that impression. I was more using your post to support the arguement.



This is exactly what the scheme is for. Your company would likely go under without it.
Lol. Trust me, they would be fine, they have a lot more money than Tottenham Hotspur.
 

swarvsta

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Jul 25, 2008
Messages
588
So to sum up:

- It's not morally right
- Our financials havent been hit yet

During normal times I grudgingly accept that business is business. The fact that everyone is sticking to this mantra in times like this and calling other people pathetic for expecting a bit of decency is....pathetic.
Who is calling other people pathetic?

I certainly haven’t. I have been neg repped for stating that the furlough scheme is going to be activated by any business who deems it necessary. There isn’t any room for sentiment in business.

Clearly, we have hundreds of staff who are not currently working, and they are not required. Without the government scheme, we would let them go.

It is entirely logical to activate the scheme.
 

Trees

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Aug 31, 2012
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867
But he didn't "just award himself" anything? You think he can just award himself things? Thats like saying you "awarded yourself" your wages this month, its a thing that is negotiated, offered and agreed with the board who pay his wages. An agreement that was agreed years ago and just happened to be reported a couple of weeks ago because Spurs are a publicly traded company who have certain responsibilities in terms of reporting that always hits around the end of the financial year.

This is not about how much money a business is worth or assets, its about cashflow and there is no cashflow in right now but plenty of cashflow out. As with any organisation like this he has a responsibility to shareholders first and foremost, thats the world we live in.



Oooh i'll have a go. Its probably because you're guessing on how everything is paid and where money actually is. Do you know how the tv money is paid? What caveats are in place to restrict payment if no games are played? Same with sponsors, same with everything.

Credit card companies will likely be holding a shitload of cash back right now, they can hold 90% of payments made on credit cards if they so choose, which means no access to a fuckton of cash so there may be no ticket money.

It's not Football Manager, none of us have any clue how the cash situation is being affected.


**edit**

Bollocks, i spent so much time faffing with multiquotes and getting confused Bobbins got there first.
Good post. As a fan you have a simple response. If u don’t like it, don’t pay for a ticket, Sky, new kit etc.

The optics don’t look good though. Wait to announce furloughing staff until after PFA discussions have been concluded. Perhaps Levy should have taken a greater reduction than 20%. In so many ways the club is run well, but in so many other ways it is run terribly.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

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It's not the club mate, it's the players you should be criticising if anyone. They have the power, collectively at the club and through the PFA, to willingly cut their wages to not only help their individual clubs, but more importantly the staff they work with every day.

Every football club in the country could easily pay all its staff, suppliers and affiliates/charities/partners in full if they had 50% less they had to pay the players.

EDIT: The pathetic comment was aimed at the response to the story - and that response has been absolutely pathetic. I didn't call out any individuals.
Yeah - they're a bit of a disgrace too.

As I said, I know I'm naive, but I just can't accept that an industry as sickeningly wealthy as football is already needing government money. They should at least be criticised for operating with such high risk.

I know money is tight but, hand on heart, do you think Levy needs to use the Government scheme? Or is he just being a good businessman by making use of free money?
 

Drink!Drink!

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Very, very hard to find any love for modern football.

Levy I see for 2018/19 trousered 7m pounds - also noting this is the period of the two disastrous transfer windows without a single new player added to the talent pool.

Ordinary staff of THFC. Basically all the people like you and me, have to take pay cuts because the biggest pay cost by far - the players - who receive more money than anyone can think decent, who will never worry where the next dinner is coming from - refuse to help out and volunteer for temporary pay cuts.
 

SirHarryHotspur

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Well someone has to put in a good word for ENIC from the accounts

Charitable and Political Donations
The Group made cash donations of £196,613 to International , UK based and local charities during the year ( 2018; £11,368) The Group made no political donations (2018; £nil)

Why don't all the Levy bashers , Talksport and all the rest of them have a go at Branson he wants a Government bail out for Virgin Airlines

" Branson started with a simple record store, and built Virgin into an absolute powerhouse, turning him into one of the richest men in Britain. Richard Branson's net worth is estimated at $5 billion as of 2020. "
 

wrd

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Well someone has to put in a good word for ENIC from the accounts

Charitable and Political Donations
The Group made cash donations of £196,613 to International , UK based and local charities during the year ( 2018; £11,368) The Group made no political donations (2018; £nil)

Why don't all the Levy bashers , Talksport and all the rest of them have a go at Branson he wants a Government bail out for Virgin Airlines

" Branson started with a simple record store, and built Virgin into an absolute powerhouse, turning him into one of the richest men in Britain. Richard Branson's net worth is estimated at $5 billion as of 2020. "
Just a hunch but probably because we're in the ENIC thread not the Virgin Group thread and probably because it's Talksport and not Talkairlines.
 

Shadydan

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It's the total opposite. He's saying that football needs to understand its place in the scheme of things, and how unimportant it is at a time like this. Absolutely mind blowing to me that people are having a go at Levy for this - he's completely spot on.
Is it really? People will use absolutely anything to use as a stick to be him with, there's been some utterly pathetic arguments in here from desperate people who generally do not have a clue and love to spin things into a negative to suit their agenda, it's hilarious.
 

Bobbins

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Yeah - they're a bit of a disgrace too.

As I said, I know I'm naive, but I just can't accept that an industry as sickeningly wealthy as football is already needing government money. They should at least be criticised for operating with such high risk.

I know money is tight but, hand on heart, do you think Levy needs to use the Government scheme? Or is he just being a good businessman by making use of free money?
Whatever you do don't look into the state aid given to the "world's richest club" Real Madrid over the years. They have been essentially funded by the regional and national government in various ways for years. It will disgust you.

As for Levy's actions - it's sound financial planning from the man whose job it is to look after the financial future of the club. As I said, you will see the vast majority of football league clubs do this in the coming days and weeks. What you won't see is the same level of vitriol levelled at those other clubs and their chairmen by fans. Levy is always public enemy number one, whether or not it's deserved (and sometimes it has been).

I also expect to see the PFA come to a deal with the players where they will take a significant pay cut for several months, not least because the public will gradually start to realise that they are the problem here, not greedy chairmen.
 

Bobbins

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They are still employees. Contracts work alongside employment law, and footballers are all classed as employees (in the UK, but not always in other countries).

However, they would potentially have the right to exit their contract if we furloughed them. It would probably have to be a mutual agreement, like we have seen at other clubs.

Personally I feel that footballers really should have offered to take a cut during this current time. I find it impossible to believe that any PL footballer would be relying on their wages to cover monthly outgoings. Even if they have mortgages, they could freeze them for 3 months.

It could have changed a lot of people’s opinions on footballers if they had taken a stand on this together, and given something back from their quite extortionate wages.
Don't know if this has been addressed already but no, they absolutely are not classified as employees at all. IR35 reforms haven't hit the private sector yet (and now won't).
 
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