ENIC in or out?

ENIC in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 217 66.2%
  • Out

    Votes: 111 33.8%

  • Total voters
    328
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Dillspur

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Who has done that?
Narine for one, his post (to me) reads that everything is down to Levy and we should all be grateful, saying things like "it's distasteful" when we're questioning the ownership is wrong, it was his particular post I have issues with.

What I find distasteful is some of the posts in regards to Poch.
 

sausage

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That's the point of this thread. Enic in or out. Are they holding us back from taking the next step. Not being able to compete on a player that has helped liverpool win the Champions League and possibly league this year is exactly the point of the thread.
We also took Dele, Sigurdsson, Dempsey and many others from under their noses.

We can't cherry pick tbh. It's more to do with Klopp than those players imo.
 

sausage

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They've had 20 years and and we've won 2 league cups.
This has already been answered numerous times...

Also - it hasn't been 20 years.

Much like the two windows without a signing, it gets quoted as longer and longer everytime someone splashes hyperbole on it.

I think it's 18 years ish since they bought the first 20-odd percent from Sugar.
 

dontcallme

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Narine for one, his post (to me) reads that everything is down to Levy and we should all be grateful, saying things like "it's distasteful" when we're questioning the ownership is wrong, it was his particular post I have issues with.

What I find distasteful is some of the posts in regards to Poch.
Sure but we don't need to get caught up in taking sides. Just because someone gives Levy too much credit and Poch not enough doesn't mean we have to balance this out by giving Poch full credit and diminish ENIC's influence.

Villa were a good example of being anti-ENIC under Lerner. He didn't grow the club but they were a decent size club. They had no long-term strategy in place and put huge money into the first team. Under O'Neil they backed him and bought a lot of expensive, experienced player. They had no sell on value and ran out of cash. MON left when they had no more money and the next manager had a horrible job to do.

ENIC have run our club sensibly. They have put a sensible wage plan in place and invested wisely to increase our turnover. This has helped us buy players like Berbatov, Modric etc and there has been a continuous growth.

Each time a manager has taken over as a result has meant they have not had a huge mess to sort out. Our spending this summer was solid and the improved turnover has helped us grow.

Poch did an excellent job in getting the team together and forming a playing style. He deserves huge credit. It's a huge shame his reign came to an end but he didn't seem adaptable enough to get the best out of a very talented squad.
 

Lighty64

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That is just a dumb thing to say off the back of one thread. Just because someone thinks we need a change at the top to make the next step doesn't mean they moan about everything. I'm completely the opposite when supporting spurs. If you take some time to actually look back over my posts you might notice that. Whilst others constantly slate players and managers I've been pretty consistent in backing them for improvement or suggesting conditions as to why they haven't been achieving.

It's not against forum policy to disagree and if you are so 100% certain that ENIC are the best people out there to run our club then provide some on the pitch supporting evidence as to why they are? We constantly hear punching above our weight based on wage bill, turnover, squad cost etc. I've reached a point with ENIC where I'd optimistically like an owner to come in that can actually help us take the next step and compete with Liverpool and City.

I'd like us to shake off the nearly men or also ran tag and take the next step. Maybe the stadium will change that, maybe it won't. Either way I personally feel Mourinho has a proven record of delivering trophies when backed. Levy has a track record of eventually falling out with managers that actually deliver on his brief and not backing them. See Jol, Redknapp and now Poch. Worth noting that Redknapp and Poch both got sacked after finishing in 4th place the previous year. Both managers were looking to kick on and both didn't get fully backed with what they wanted. Yes we spent good money this summer but we didn't ship out the players we wanted to or replace them. Poch continually said he wanted to clear out the squad and go again. IMHO this hangover of not doing that over the last 3 windows is why we are where we are.

Have we improved under previous managers? I'd say it is probably 50/50. Hoddle > Santini < Jol >Ramos < Redknapp >AVB < Poch. Let's see what Mourinho brings it's been a good start and I have been impressed with his attitude in the short time. He is a great salesman and he grows on you.

I guess to summarise I have always been happy with ENIC. We've improved all the facilities to get to where we are. We have built an impressive stadium that will help us to compete that bit more. My honest feeling is that the stadium is the pinnacle of ENIC's plans. To get to the next steps I think we need a change at the top just like a lot of people felt about Poch. I would have backed Poch but we didn't and on we go. I hope the club can push on to the top and win a league in my life time. What's certain is to do that we have to be better than UTD, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Football is now as much a financial competition as it is a sporting competition. If you don't sign the best players and managers you don't compete at a high level for a period of time. I'm yet to see a sign that we are capable of competing with City, Liverpool, Chelsea or UTD for the right players. Time will tell.

But please don't tar with me the negative Levy out at all costs team. I'm a wavering BSODL badly hurt by losing Poch and the lack of loyalty shown to him.
and the reason why we haven't yet is that in the previous 10 seasons we have built a stadium and training facilities, which neither of those clubs has done. The 1st summer we could actually compete with them in the market was a summer that Poch didn't want the players offered. they have already changed their spots by the money they spent in the summer, and the money they will now be able to offer every summer compared to the days when we were at the old WHL.
 

Lighty64

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Whenever we've got close, Levy has failed to capitalize, we've all seen that in various transfer windows, yes they have got us this far but why are people not questioning their ownership?

We were/are probably in agreement that Poch and other managers had taken us as far as they could, so now I'm saying (and others) that maybe this is as far a ENIC can take us? They've had 20 years and and we've won 2 league cups.
but now we have everything in place with the stadium and training facilities we don't know where they can take us.

they have only won 1 league cup in their time, it's not their fault the players on the field have failed to get us the results in all the semi's and 3 other finals we have been involved in, and that's not helped when you have had 2 clubs taken over since that have thrown mega money to win trophies and both did so before FFP kicked in
 

Graysonti

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I think the club is in a decent place now - best in my lifetime.

And that is ultimately down to Levy.

Of course he is not perfect but then if we were to change owners, the likelihood is they would be worse so I would rather stick.

For me, whatever the outcome, he showed real ambition getting Mourinho in and put the football and fans first. It will be exciting to see where we go when he moves back to football after the distractions of this huge stadium build.

We need that bit of luck to get over the line - that’s what we need now.
 
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yido_number1

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and the reason why we haven't yet is that in the previous 10 seasons we have built a stadium and training facilities, which neither of those clubs has done. The 1st summer we could actually compete with them in the market was a summer that Poch didn't want the players offered. they have already changed their spots by the money they spent in the summer, and the money they will now be able to offer every summer compared to the days when we were at the old WHL.
You keep buying the propaganda and remember Poch has been calling for a rebuild for a few windows and it never came. We signed two first team ready players and a young up and comer that came to the team. Of those players two were ready to play on arrival.
 

Shadydan

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You keep buying the propaganda and remember Poch has been calling for a rebuild for a few windows and it never came. We signed two first team ready players and a young up and comer that came to the team. Of those players two were ready to play on arrival.
What's your reaction to @Hercules saying that Poch turning down very good players in Summer 2018, players that would have helped the team?
 

Graysonti

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You keep buying the propaganda and remember Poch has been calling for a rebuild for a few windows and it never came. We signed two first team ready players and a young up and comer that came to the team. Of those players two were ready to play on arrival.
Mate - why don’t you follow Pochs next club as your clearly favour him over THFC.

The last ten months is down to Poch and Poch only. He was paid £8.5m (one of the highest) to keep the club in the CL spots. The results and football have been poor for 10 months and if we are going to criticise Levy, it would be that he waited too long and showed too much loyalty. Poch was a wreck towards last season with his comments, team selection and tactics. I think the world of him but it was time to go.
 

Lighty64

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You keep buying the propaganda and remember Poch has been calling for a rebuild for a few windows and it never came. We signed two first team ready players and a young up and comer that came to the team. Of those players two were ready to play on arrival.
look I'm not happy Poch got the push especially if all of a sudden Mourinho gets stupid money to rebuild. at the moment we are seeing the new manager bounce. I personally don't like Mourinho, and unless he has really changed which we won't know till the players down tools I doubt I will ever trust him.

I don't buy the propaganda, I only go by what info we have to hand and when 2-3 ITK's say the same thing that Poch had money to spend then a good chance less salt is needed.

what I do know is we were never ever going to be able to compete and be able to pay better wages in the old stadium, and ENIC have taken a massive step by building us a stadium. with Chelsea and Man C they are both clubs that got in before FFP, and both their owners are the main man in their organisation, and have treated their clubs as play things. We are owned by a company that has more than 1 person being owners, that have now put the infrastructure in place that will allow us to compete better in the market, and offer better wages to do that.

why not wait and see if they change their spots in the long-run when it comes to buying players now, because they now don't have a big enough excuse not to. Yes we all know they have the stadium debt, but we also now know the way they have restructured the payments with the bonds, we all know that the income is way above those payments so it should result in backing the manager better.
 

Lighty64

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Mate - why don’t you follow Pochs next club as your clearly favour him over THFC.

The last ten months is down to Poch and Poch only. He was paid £8.5m (one of the highest) to keep the club in the CL spots. The results and football have been poor for 10 months and if we are going to criticise Levy, it would be that he waited too long and showed too much loyalty. Poch was a wreck towards last season with his comments, team selection and tactics. I think the world of him but it was time to go.
Graysonti how can you not understand that last seasons results would be affected due to everything last season from start to finish. Just because you paid top prices for your tickets (you mentioned it enough in the Poch thread), that didn't give the players extra energy to carry on when they had played 2 seasons, twice a week every bloody week, which includes 4-5 days training a week (every week for 2 years)
 

dudu

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Graysonti how can you not understand that last seasons results would be affected due to everything last season from start to finish. Just because you paid top prices for your tickets (you mentioned it enough in the Poch thread), that didn't give the players extra energy to carry on when they had played 2 seasons, twice a week every bloody week, which includes 4-5 days training a week (every week for 2 years)
I am largely with you on the point that a portion of last year's downturn was definitely due to mental and physical fatigue. I have argued it myself and stand by it but there comes a point where managing that fatigue, repairing the mental state of the players over pre-season and ensuring that the downturn in form last season doesn't spiral out of control as it did has to fall on the manager.

"Familiarity breeds contempt" - many of our players clearly loved Poch as a man but were just not willing to run through the walls he had put up any more.

We looked fatigued just a couple of weeks ago and yet haven't really the last couple of games. That says a lot IMO.
 

Donki

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look I'm not happy Poch got the push especially if all of a sudden Mourinho gets stupid money to rebuild. at the moment we are seeing the new manager bounce. I personally don't like Mourinho, and unless he has really changed which we won't know till the players down tools I doubt I will ever trust him.

I don't buy the propaganda, I only go by what info we have to hand and when 2-3 ITK's say the same thing that Poch had money to spend then a good chance less salt is needed.

what I do know is we were never ever going to be able to compete and be able to pay better wages in the old stadium, and ENIC have taken a massive step by building us a stadium. with Chelsea and Man C they are both clubs that got in before FFP, and both their owners are the main man in their organisation, and have treated their clubs as play things. We are owned by a company that has more than 1 person being owners, that have now put the infrastructure in place that will allow us to compete better in the market, and offer better wages to do that.

why not wait and see if they change their spots in the long-run when it comes to buying players now, because they now don't have a big enough excuse not to. Yes we all know they have the stadium debt, but we also now know the way they have restructured the payments with the bonds, we all know that the income is way above those payments so it should result in backing the manager better.
Was the change to take Dier off new manager bounce? A formation that we can actually see working, a press back in the players?

Trust me I loved Poch but his time was up, that's clear for all to see, players looked tired and unhappy, Verts and even Toby now considering staying, scoring 7 goals in 2 games? the club first time everytime, I thank Poch and will miss the guy but its tiem to move on.
 

Lighty64

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Was the change to take Dier off new manager bounce? A formation that we can actually see working, a press back in the players?

Trust me I loved Poch but his time was up, that's clear for all to see, players looked tired and unhappy, Verts and even Toby now considering staying, scoring 7 goals in 2 games? the club first time everytime, I thank Poch and will miss the guy but its tiem to move on.
Oh I agree we really needed someone to do the job Dier can do when fully fit, and only now is he getting match fit, something Poch should have tried earlier. I'm not sure the press is as good as when we were flying yet.

I'm very happy with the fact we have scored 7, but not happy at all to concede 4 pretty sloppy goals

edit: also understand scoring 3 goals v Wet Spam is the norm at the moment for them, their keeper is very very poor. hope Fabianski is injured all season and they stick with him, them going down would make me smile
 

fishhhandaricecake

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look I'm not happy Poch got the push especially if all of a sudden Mourinho gets stupid money to rebuild. at the moment we are seeing the new manager bounce. I personally don't like Mourinho, and unless he has really changed which we won't know till the players down tools I doubt I will ever trust him.

I don't buy the propaganda, I only go by what info we have to hand and when 2-3 ITK's say the same thing that Poch had money to spend then a good chance less salt is needed.

what I do know is we were never ever going to be able to compete and be able to pay better wages in the old stadium, and ENIC have taken a massive step by building us a stadium. with Chelsea and Man C they are both clubs that got in before FFP, and both their owners are the main man in their organisation, and have treated their clubs as play things. We are owned by a company that has more than 1 person being owners, that have now put the infrastructure in place that will allow us to compete better in the market, and offer better wages to do that.

why not wait and see if they change their spots in the long-run when it comes to buying players now, because they now don't have a big enough excuse not to. Yes we all know they have the stadium debt, but we also now know the way they have restructured the payments with the bonds, we all know that the income is way above those payments so it should result in backing the manager better.
Great post
 

Marauder

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Also - it hasn't been 20 years.

Much like the two windows without a signing, it gets quoted as longer and longer everytime someone splashes hyperbole on it.

I think it's 18 years ish since they bought the first 20-odd percent from Sugar.
And what about the 4 (in a row!) recent transfer windows without signing a single player? :D
 
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