Eberechi Eze

[VoteMe4Prez]

I wonder if he wants out when he's seeing players leaving around him

 

[Spursberg]

I wonder if he wants out when he's seeing players leaving around him

Of course he wants out, but it is not up to him

 

[yido_number1]

From the eye test, but we'll see at the end of the season.

Maybe the eye test is because we were so good against them for the majority of the game.

 

[carpediem1906]

sometimes we just all need to let it out

feel like there's no better place than the Eze thread

I came in
Read 4 pages from here n back
N didn’t know where I was until u said so

 

[carpediem1906]

Leicester are shocking though, they will probably finish bottom of the league this season.

Any half-decent team will go there and put 3+ past them.

Shall we have a wager on this?
19 teams to go there
Dare to bet that 12 teams will score more than 3 against them then?

 

[Cinemattis]

Seeing as we aren’t signing Eze, and probably weren’t ever signing Eze, this is just a general chit shit chat thread now isn’t it?

Judging by the postings made since the start of this week - which fill less than 10 pages or so - you are spot on, sir! May I suggest the slightest and tiniest of adjustments to your post; simply to replace one consonant with another?

 

[Cinemattis]

A few too many posters turning on each other. Maybe we can play a bit more nicely.

Trying to be objective:
- Given some signings (like Odobert) have come out of near silence, it's quite possible we'll sign 1 or 2 more.
- There is squad space available for NHG or HG senior signings (and even more if we don't register [sell, loan, sideline] Reguilón, Solomon or Lo Celso.
- There is cash at hand, PSR headroom, and comfortable financial clout for the right player.
- if we are done, then adding a starting CF, and 4 experienced senior players (ie first team squad ready with many mens matches played) with massive potential, who are all teenagers, plus Werner as a proven, reasonable stopgap, is already a good window.
(Adding Devine, Moore and Lankshear as senior team options makes it 8 additions to the playing squad, but some won't count them) Shipping out (in various ways) 13 players all surplus to requirements is also very impressive (Parrott, Skipp, Royal, Højbjerg, Tanganga, Rodon [all for fees], Ndombele, Dier, Perišić, Sessegnon, Santiago, Robson, John). Plus loans for Gil and Veliz. Plus development loans for Donley and Scarlett. I'm not quite sure how much more people were expecting?

For what it's worth, I'd be astonished if we didn't sign 1 more player. Possibly in the Odobert price bracket, maybe even in the Solanke range.

Maybe some of us need to calm down, enjoy the good football, and have a little faith in the still new regime of manger, coaching team, football operations, data analytics, none of whom have been around for more than 14months yet, and have already made great strides.

I really like your post, mate: to try to be objective and coolheaded is always good to be reminded of. Saying that; as a fans´ community, it would be terribly boring without some heart, passion and strong opinions!

I´d like to comment on a few of your points if I may.

- Who will start of Solanke and Richarlison when both are fit, will be interesting to see. Personally I was not over the moon about the signing of Solanke for that amount of money, and I have doubts that his all over capabilities are dramatically better than Richy (some pluses, some minuses). But there cannot be much doubt that we have strengthened in the CF position. Which was desperately needed as Richy so far has not been able to stay match ready and/or fit for longer spells of time.

4 experienced players that are first team squad ready + who are all teenagers. This is imho a bit of a stretch and/or seen through some very rose tinted glasses.
- First of all: the numbers are wrong.
Bergvall was, for all practical reasons, acquired in the winter window. He signed a few days later, and was loaned back to Djurgården until the time when we wanted all our players to return after summer break. If you count him as a summer signing because he joined the squad this summer, then that logic means that Yang doesn´t count as a summer signing as he will not join before in the winter window. Did we sign Porro in January or July last year? He started playing for us in February, but he was formally a part of our club from July. These things are really formalities and workarounds for financial/bookkeeping reasons; Porro and Kulu were both signed on loans with obligation to buy. For all practical reasons they were Spurs players from the day they started representing the club. Only 3 are here now, and that imo is what matters. If Bergvall was a winter or summer signing, and if Yang is a signing now or for next year; what ever way you see it, the total for this summer - the here and now - cannot be seen as anything more than 3 players.

Speaking of the "here and now":

Most would - I know I certainly do - agree that Bergvall and Gray look to be amazing signings that hopefully will be great senior players for us. Hopefully Odobert will show us to be at the same level. But they are all very, very young. It is almost unheard of that teenagers play substantial minutes for any club in the top 5 leagues in Europe - Especially for the top clubs. It would be to put a unhealthy pressure on these young shoulders to expect them to break through and start say a third or more of our PL matches this season. The occasional start, valuable minutes as subs and in cups throughout the season is the best I think we should expect from any of them. Any more than that should be seen as a tremendous bonus imo. And, yes, I know you wrote "squad ready" and not starters in the first 11. But you also wrote "experienced senior players", which simply isn´t true. Perisic, Dier, Højbjerg, Royal, Lo Celso, Rodon and to some extent Sess and Skipp are experienced senior players. An 18 year old kid with a few months or at best a season or two with senior level minutes is not an experienced senior player.

In my mind, a "squad ready" player, is someone the coach will not hesitate to play at any time or place. Royal and Davies as centre backs and with PEH as the holding midfielder was obviously not Ange´s preferred line up (nor anyone else´s), but as experienced seniors he could trust them to do a professional job and be able to tackle the pressure. I very much doubt Ange will start G-O-B in a match of importance, and on top of that play two of them out of position. Hopefully they will get the occasional start and plenty of minutes and appearances coming on as subs.

Gray (born 2006) has one full season in the Championship. One. He looked tremendous in the summer training matches; he looked tidy when coming on against one of the weakest teams in the PL; and seems mature beyond his years. But he´s still 18 and 100% unproven on this level.

Bergvall (2006) has one and a half season in the top Swedish league. Which is not exactly superior to the Championship level wise. He has played 15 times the full 90 minutes in the top tier Swedish league, the Swedish cup and in the UEFA CL qualification combined. Fifteen full matches. He also has one season in the Swedish second tier league with a total of 15 appearances totalling less than 450 minutes. In a league that is a very junior level, and probably more comparable to the PL2 than to the lower professional English leagues. As Gray: he looks a tremendous talent, and - as with Gray - we are many that have very high hopes for his future. But right now: he´s 18 and still unproven at this level.

Odobert (2004) is the only one of these kids that has PL experience. He´s also born in 2004 and not `06 as the other three. With one full season in Ligue 1 and one in the PL, he is the one that should be closest to break through and get anything close to substantial playing time this season for us. One should be aware that both his senior seasons have been for teams that hav been relegated. To go from being an attacking player for a team with low expectations, to the same for a top PL side that is competing for European qualification is really different worlds. Reading Kompany´s words on him, and the way Burnley fans talk about him is of course very promising! But patience and a bit of caution should be applied: he´s definitely not a fully proven senior player on our desired level.

Yang (2006) I don´t know too much about, but to say that he has played many senior "mens" matches is simply not true. He has at current date appeared in 27 senior matches. Surprisingly many of them for 80+ minutes, must be said. But also: In a very inferior league compared to the levels required for European qualification in the PL. And: He debuted less than 6 months ago. If he´s not some kind of Asian Messi, there will be years before he´s regular starter for us. To move from literally the side of the planet and come to the most physically demanding league in the world is a huge step for anyone. Language, culture - it will be a whole new life and world for him, and thus should be given plenty of time to adjust. I guess he will train with the first team squad when he arrives, but if he gets anything more than a few seconds or minutes in added time in one or two matches, it will be a sensation. We will obviously have to see if he´s "squad ready" when he arrives next year, but the more realistic and careful view would be to give him at least 18 months from his arrival.

In appearances and minutes I´ll make the argument that none of them are anything close to experienced senior players.
Gray has 53 senior appearances and just edged 4,500 senior minutes on Monday; Odobert has 66 senior appearances and just over 4,200 minutes; Bergvall has just reached 3,000 minutes spread across 60 appearances (including 448 m/ 12apps at the second tier level in Sweden).

In comparison Oliver Skipp has over 150 senior appearances for us and Norwich combined , playing more than 9,650 minutes. I´m not sure that all would consider Skipp (23) to be an experienced senior. And this is a player that has played more than 40 matches and a 1,000 minutes more than Odobert and Gray - together. Conversationally, Skipp´s 24 matches for England U21s are actually more than what these 4 youngsters have played for their respective national U23, U21 and U20 sides combined and in total (14 apps).

The obvious potential for all three of Gray, Odobert & Bergvall I believe we all share! And, as you and many more have mentioned: Devine, Moore, Donley, Phillips, Scarlett, Veliz and even more coming up from the academy - the future looks really great! Add to the up and coming Udogie, Sarr, Dragusin, van der Ven, Johnson, Kulusevski, Spence, Porro who are all 24 or younger. If all the young talents continue to develop and "make it" and the ones that are already there continue to progress, we could have a tremendous and exciting team and squad for years to come. The keyword is "could". We are not there right now. And all kind of things might happen on the way - injuries and plateauing or even regressing. Dele Alli was on his way to global superstardom; Skipp was touted as the future Spurs captain by both Mourinho and Conte; and Sess was the most exciting English talent and player of the year for both club and Championship. One has just signed for a favourite to be relegated from the PL; one was signed by his old club in the hope he might be able to play professional football on the highest level again; one is without a club, hasn´t played a single minute for over a year, and nothing really close to a full season since 2019/20. Anything can happen, and sadly it does.

8 additions to the squad:

1 CF
4 teenagers
1 Werner
3 internal promotions from own academy (Devine, Moore & Lankshear)
- It adds up to 9, not 8.

As two of the latter three already had debuted for the senior´s team before the summer transfer window, I think most fans will consider it as overly creative to add them as "new" signings/additions. To count your club trained youngsters that are promoted from our own academy as new signings are for most football fans (across the world!) a very strange thought. They are the harvest of the club´s long time youth work. If you plant seeds or saplings in your garden and after many years you are able to eat apples from your own garden, it is not the same as going to the local grocery shop and buy ready to eat apples. Yes, both are your legal property, but in any other way a very different thing altogether.
And Werner has been re-signed on a new loan: not exactly your definition of a "new" addition as he played the second half of last season with us.

I know this will probably come across as a very negative post in reply to yours. I do agree with you in general, and I´m very optimistic of what might be a very exciting future! But I do believe it is more a squad for the future than the here and now. And I fear we might lose players like Romero especially, and maybe even Porro, Udogie and van der Ven if we aren´t closing the gap to City and Arsenal, get CL and maybe most important of all: win a trophy. I think any trophy will do tbh.

The great failure of the Poch era was the inability to add the one or two "win here and now" signings that we needed to get the most talented and exciting squad our club has seen for decades over the line trophy wise.

Romero are entering his prime years, as are Richy and Solanke. Maddison, Bentancur, Bissouma and Viccario should be in theirs, while Son and Davies can´t be regarded to be entering anything but the twilight years of their prime. Benta and Biss have question marks about their future at the club, while two others that should´ve been in their prime years, Regi and Lo Celso, are more or less unwanted. If we lose Romero, Madders, Son and some of the others to age or other clubs before all the youngsters have grown into the level required, I fear we will continue to be an almost club, an also ran.

 

[mil1lion]

I like Eze but he's a here and now player in the same way as Maddison, Bissouma, Richarlison, Solanke. All players who haven't played top level previously (maybe Solanke to some extent but was very young still) who need to come in and prove it at this level. I don't think that was where we fell short under Poch. I think we built the best first 11 we ever had in the Premier League era and that I have personally ever followed. Where we fell short was depth in the squad. The drop off after the first 11 where we simply didn't have suitable replacements for Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Eriksen, Son, Kane. I think our best chance of success will come from building a squad where we have genuine competition in each position. I feel we're on track for that approach but need to allow time to see them grow together.

 

[N17-77]

I really like your post, mate: to try to be objective and coolheaded is always good to be reminded of. Saying that; as a fans´ community, it would be terribly boring without some heart, passion and strong opinions!

I´d like to comment on a few of your points if I may.

- Who will start of Solanke and Richarlison when both are fit, will be interesting to see. Personally I was not over the moon about the signing of Solanke for that amount of money, and I have doubts that his all over capabilities are dramatically better than Richy (some pluses, some minuses). But there cannot be much doubt that we have strengthened in the CF position. Which was desperately needed as Richy so far has not been able to stay match ready and/or fit for longer spells of time.

4 experienced players that are first team squad ready + who are all teenagers. This is imho a bit of a stretch and/or seen through some very rose tinted glasses.
- First of all: the numbers are wrong.
Bergvall was, for all practical reasons, acquired in the winter window. He signed a few days later, and was loaned back to Djurgården until the time when we wanted all our players to return after summer break. If you count him as a summer signing because he joined the squad this summer, then that logic means that Yang doesn´t count as a summer signing as he will not join before in the winter window. Did we sign Porro in January or July last year? He started playing for us in February, but he was formally a part of our club from July. These things are really formalities and workarounds for financial/bookkeeping reasons; Porro and Kulu were both signed on loans with obligation to buy. For all practical reasons they were Spurs players from the day they started representing the club. Only 3 are here now, and that imo is what matters. If Bergvall was a winter or summer signing, and if Yang is a signing now or for next year; what ever way you see it, the total for this summer - the here and now - cannot be seen as anything more than 3 players.

Speaking of the "here and now":

Most would - I know I certainly do - agree that Bergvall and Gray look to be amazing signings that hopefully will be great senior players for us. Hopefully Odobert will show us to be at the same level. But they are all very, very young. It is almost unheard of that teenagers play substantial minutes for any club in the top 5 leagues in Europe - Especially for the top clubs. It would be to put a unhealthy pressure on these young shoulders to expect them to break through and start say a third or more of our PL matches this season. The occasional start, valuable minutes as subs and in cups throughout the season is the best I think we should expect from any of them. Any more than that should be seen as a tremendous bonus imo. And, yes, I know you wrote "squad ready" and not starters in the first 11. But you also wrote "experienced senior players", which simply isn´t true. Perisic, Dier, Højbjerg, Royal, Lo Celso, Rodon and to some extent Sess and Skipp are experienced senior players. An 18 year old kid with a few months or at best a season or two with senior level minutes is not an experienced senior player.

In my mind, a "squad ready" player, is someone the coach will not hesitate to play at any time or place. Royal and Davies as centre backs and with PEH as the holding midfielder was obviously not Ange´s preferred line up (nor anyone else´s), but as experienced seniors he could trust them to do a professional job and be able to tackle the pressure. I very much doubt Ange will start G-O-B in a match of importance, and on top of that play two of them out of position. Hopefully they will get the occasional start and plenty of minutes and appearances coming on as subs.

Gray (born 2006) has one full season in the Championship. One. He looked tremendous in the summer training matches; he looked tidy when coming on against one of the weakest teams in the PL; and seems mature beyond his years. But he´s still 18 and 100% unproven on this level.

Bergvall (2006) has one and a half season in the top Swedish league. Which is not exactly superior to the Championship level wise. He has played 15 times the full 90 minutes in the top tier Swedish league, the Swedish cup and in the UEFA CL qualification combined. Fifteen full matches. He also has one season in the Swedish second tier league with a total of 15 appearances totalling less than 450 minutes. In a league that is a very junior level, and probably more comparable to the PL2 than to the lower professional English leagues. As Gray: he looks a tremendous talent, and - as with Gray - we are many that have very high hopes for his future. But right now: he´s 18 and still unproven at this level.

Odobert (2004) is the only one of these kids that has PL experience. He´s also born in 2004 and not `06 as the other three. With one full season in Ligue 1 and one in the PL, he is the one that should be closest to break through and get anything close to substantial playing time this season for us. One should be aware that both his senior seasons have been for teams that hav been relegated. To go from being an attacking player for a team with low expectations, to the same for a top PL side that is competing for European qualification is really different worlds. Reading Kompany´s words on him, and the way Burnley fans talk about him is of course very promising! But patience and a bit of caution should be applied: he´s definitely not a fully proven senior player on our desired level.

Yang (2006) I don´t know too much about, but to say that he has played many senior "mens" matches is simply not true. He has at current date appeared in 27 senior matches. Surprisingly many of them for 80+ minutes, must be said. But also: In a very inferior league compared to the levels required for European qualification in the PL. And: He debuted less than 6 months ago. If he´s not some kind of Asian Messi, there will be years before he´s regular starter for us. To move from literally the side of the planet and come to the most physically demanding league in the world is a huge step for anyone. Language, culture - it will be a whole new life and world for him, and thus should be given plenty of time to adjust. I guess he will train with the first team squad when he arrives, but if he gets anything more than a few seconds or minutes in added time in one or two matches, it will be a sensation. We will obviously have to see if he´s "squad ready" when he arrives next year, but the more realistic and careful view would be to give him at least 18 months from his arrival.

In appearances and minutes I´ll make the argument that none of them are anything close to experienced senior players.
Gray has 53 senior appearances and just edged 4,500 senior minutes on Monday; Odobert has 66 senior appearances and just over 4,200 minutes; Bergvall has just reached 3,000 minutes spread across 60 appearances (including 448 m/ 12apps at the second tier level in Sweden).

In comparison Oliver Skipp has over 150 senior appearances for us and Norwich combined , playing more than 9,650 minutes. I´m not sure that all would consider Skipp (23) to be an experienced senior. And this is a player that has played more than 40 matches and a 1,000 minutes more than Odobert and Gray - together. Conversationally, Skipp´s 24 matches for England U21s are actually more than what these 4 youngsters have played for their respective national U23, U21 and U20 sides combined and in total (14 apps).

The obvious potential for all three of Gray, Odobert & Bergvall I believe we all share! And, as you and many more have mentioned: Devine, Moore, Donley, Phillips, Scarlett, Veliz and even more coming up from the academy - the future looks really great! Add to the up and coming Udogie, Sarr, Dragusin, van der Ven, Johnson, Kulusevski, Spence, Porro who are all 24 or younger. If all the young talents continue to develop and "make it" and the ones that are already there continue to progress, we could have a tremendous and exciting team and squad for years to come. The keyword is "could". We are not there right now. And all kind of things might happen on the way - injuries and plateauing or even regressing. Dele Alli was on his way to global superstardom; Skipp was touted as the future Spurs captain by both Mourinho and Conte; and Sess was the most exciting English talent and player of the year for both club and Championship. One has just signed for a favourite to be relegated from the PL; one was signed by his old club in the hope he might be able to play professional football on the highest level again; one is without a club, hasn´t played a single minute for over a year, and nothing really close to a full season since 2019/20. Anything can happen, and sadly it does.

8 additions to the squad:

1 CF
4 teenagers
1 Werner
3 internal promotions from own academy (Devine, Moore & Lankshear)
- It adds up to 9, not 8.

As two of the latter three already had debuted for the senior´s team before the summer transfer window, I think most fans will consider it as overly creative to add them as "new" signings/additions. To count your club trained youngsters that are promoted from our own academy as new signings are for most football fans (across the world!) a very strange thought. They are the harvest of the club´s long time youth work. If you plant seeds or saplings in your garden and after many years you are able to eat apples from your own garden, it is not the same as going to the local grocery shop and buy ready to eat apples. Yes, both are your legal property, but in any other way a very different thing altogether.
And Werner has been re-signed on a new loan: not exactly your definition of a "new" addition as he played the second half of last season with us.

I know this will probably come across as a very negative post in reply to yours. I do agree with you in general, and I´m very optimistic of what might be a very exciting future! But I do believe it is more a squad for the future than the here and now. And I fear we might lose players like Romero especially, and maybe even Porro, Udogie and van der Ven if we aren´t closing the gap to City and Arsenal, get CL and maybe most important of all: win a trophy. I think any trophy will do tbh.

The great failure of the Poch era was the inability to add the one or two "win here and now" signings that we needed to get the most talented and exciting squad our club has seen for decades over the line trophy wise.

Romero are entering his prime years, as are Richy and Solanke. Maddison, Bentancur, Bissouma and Viccario should be in theirs, while Son and Davies can´t be regarded to be entering anything but the twilight years of their prime. Benta and Biss have question marks about their future at the club, while two others that should´ve been in their prime years, Regi and Lo Celso, are more or less unwanted. If we lose Romero, Madders, Son and some of the others to age or other clubs before all the youngsters have grown into the level required, I fear we will continue to be an almost club, an also ran.

Thanks for your reply. I don't have time to address it all now.

In summary, the window has been good already. We have turned over the squad available to play massively with a lot of signings and u21s being ready, with some needed sales/releases.

I contend that Gray, Bergvall, Odobert (and possibly Yang tbc) have been signed as first-team squad ready. Ange's first 2 PL matches seem to support this. A key gist of my post was that many people are treating these signings as all for thr future because they're teens, whereas the reality (looks like) they're going to play now and more than hold their own.

 

[Pochie]

I really like your post, mate: to try to be objective and coolheaded is always good to be reminded of. Saying that; as a fans´ community, it would be terribly boring without some heart, passion and strong opinions!

I´d like to comment on a few of your points if I may.

- Who will start of Solanke and Richarlison when both are fit, will be interesting to see. Personally I was not over the moon about the signing of Solanke for that amount of money, and I have doubts that his all over capabilities are dramatically better than Richy (some pluses, some minuses). But there cannot be much doubt that we have strengthened in the CF position. Which was desperately needed as Richy so far has not been able to stay match ready and/or fit for longer spells of time.

4 experienced players that are first team squad ready + who are all teenagers. This is imho a bit of a stretch and/or seen through some very rose tinted glasses.
- First of all: the numbers are wrong.
Bergvall was, for all practical reasons, acquired in the winter window. He signed a few days later, and was loaned back to Djurgården until the time when we wanted all our players to return after summer break. If you count him as a summer signing because he joined the squad this summer, then that logic means that Yang doesn´t count as a summer signing as he will not join before in the winter window. Did we sign Porro in January or July last year? He started playing for us in February, but he was formally a part of our club from July. These things are really formalities and workarounds for financial/bookkeeping reasons; Porro and Kulu were both signed on loans with obligation to buy. For all practical reasons they were Spurs players from the day they started representing the club. Only 3 are here now, and that imo is what matters. If Bergvall was a winter or summer signing, and if Yang is a signing now or for next year; what ever way you see it, the total for this summer - the here and now - cannot be seen as anything more than 3 players.

Speaking of the "here and now":

Most would - I know I certainly do - agree that Bergvall and Gray look to be amazing signings that hopefully will be great senior players for us. Hopefully Odobert will show us to be at the same level. But they are all very, very young. It is almost unheard of that teenagers play substantial minutes for any club in the top 5 leagues in Europe - Especially for the top clubs. It would be to put a unhealthy pressure on these young shoulders to expect them to break through and start say a third or more of our PL matches this season. The occasional start, valuable minutes as subs and in cups throughout the season is the best I think we should expect from any of them. Any more than that should be seen as a tremendous bonus imo. And, yes, I know you wrote "squad ready" and not starters in the first 11. But you also wrote "experienced senior players", which simply isn´t true. Perisic, Dier, Højbjerg, Royal, Lo Celso, Rodon and to some extent Sess and Skipp are experienced senior players. An 18 year old kid with a few months or at best a season or two with senior level minutes is not an experienced senior player.

In my mind, a "squad ready" player, is someone the coach will not hesitate to play at any time or place. Royal and Davies as centre backs and with PEH as the holding midfielder was obviously not Ange´s preferred line up (nor anyone else´s), but as experienced seniors he could trust them to do a professional job and be able to tackle the pressure. I very much doubt Ange will start G-O-B in a match of importance, and on top of that play two of them out of position. Hopefully they will get the occasional start and plenty of minutes and appearances coming on as subs.

Gray (born 2006) has one full season in the Championship. One. He looked tremendous in the summer training matches; he looked tidy when coming on against one of the weakest teams in the PL; and seems mature beyond his years. But he´s still 18 and 100% unproven on this level.

Bergvall (2006) has one and a half season in the top Swedish league. Which is not exactly superior to the Championship level wise. He has played 15 times the full 90 minutes in the top tier Swedish league, the Swedish cup and in the UEFA CL qualification combined. Fifteen full matches. He also has one season in the Swedish second tier league with a total of 15 appearances totalling less than 450 minutes. In a league that is a very junior level, and probably more comparable to the PL2 than to the lower professional English leagues. As Gray: he looks a tremendous talent, and - as with Gray - we are many that have very high hopes for his future. But right now: he´s 18 and still unproven at this level.

Odobert (2004) is the only one of these kids that has PL experience. He´s also born in 2004 and not `06 as the other three. With one full season in Ligue 1 and one in the PL, he is the one that should be closest to break through and get anything close to substantial playing time this season for us. One should be aware that both his senior seasons have been for teams that hav been relegated. To go from being an attacking player for a team with low expectations, to the same for a top PL side that is competing for European qualification is really different worlds. Reading Kompany´s words on him, and the way Burnley fans talk about him is of course very promising! But patience and a bit of caution should be applied: he´s definitely not a fully proven senior player on our desired level.

Yang (2006) I don´t know too much about, but to say that he has played many senior "mens" matches is simply not true. He has at current date appeared in 27 senior matches. Surprisingly many of them for 80+ minutes, must be said. But also: In a very inferior league compared to the levels required for European qualification in the PL. And: He debuted less than 6 months ago. If he´s not some kind of Asian Messi, there will be years before he´s regular starter for us. To move from literally the side of the planet and come to the most physically demanding league in the world is a huge step for anyone. Language, culture - it will be a whole new life and world for him, and thus should be given plenty of time to adjust. I guess he will train with the first team squad when he arrives, but if he gets anything more than a few seconds or minutes in added time in one or two matches, it will be a sensation. We will obviously have to see if he´s "squad ready" when he arrives next year, but the more realistic and careful view would be to give him at least 18 months from his arrival.

In appearances and minutes I´ll make the argument that none of them are anything close to experienced senior players.
Gray has 53 senior appearances and just edged 4,500 senior minutes on Monday; Odobert has 66 senior appearances and just over 4,200 minutes; Bergvall has just reached 3,000 minutes spread across 60 appearances (including 448 m/ 12apps at the second tier level in Sweden).

In comparison Oliver Skipp has over 150 senior appearances for us and Norwich combined , playing more than 9,650 minutes. I´m not sure that all would consider Skipp (23) to be an experienced senior. And this is a player that has played more than 40 matches and a 1,000 minutes more than Odobert and Gray - together. Conversationally, Skipp´s 24 matches for England U21s are actually more than what these 4 youngsters have played for their respective national U23, U21 and U20 sides combined and in total (14 apps).

The obvious potential for all three of Gray, Odobert & Bergvall I believe we all share! And, as you and many more have mentioned: Devine, Moore, Donley, Phillips, Scarlett, Veliz and even more coming up from the academy - the future looks really great! Add to the up and coming Udogie, Sarr, Dragusin, van der Ven, Johnson, Kulusevski, Spence, Porro who are all 24 or younger. If all the young talents continue to develop and "make it" and the ones that are already there continue to progress, we could have a tremendous and exciting team and squad for years to come. The keyword is "could". We are not there right now. And all kind of things might happen on the way - injuries and plateauing or even regressing. Dele Alli was on his way to global superstardom; Skipp was touted as the future Spurs captain by both Mourinho and Conte; and Sess was the most exciting English talent and player of the year for both club and Championship. One has just signed for a favourite to be relegated from the PL; one was signed by his old club in the hope he might be able to play professional football on the highest level again; one is without a club, hasn´t played a single minute for over a year, and nothing really close to a full season since 2019/20. Anything can happen, and sadly it does.

8 additions to the squad:

1 CF
4 teenagers
1 Werner
3 internal promotions from own academy (Devine, Moore & Lankshear)
- It adds up to 9, not 8.

As two of the latter three already had debuted for the senior´s team before the summer transfer window, I think most fans will consider it as overly creative to add them as "new" signings/additions. To count your club trained youngsters that are promoted from our own academy as new signings are for most football fans (across the world!) a very strange thought. They are the harvest of the club´s long time youth work. If you plant seeds or saplings in your garden and after many years you are able to eat apples from your own garden, it is not the same as going to the local grocery shop and buy ready to eat apples. Yes, both are your legal property, but in any other way a very different thing altogether.
And Werner has been re-signed on a new loan: not exactly your definition of a "new" addition as he played the second half of last season with us.

I know this will probably come across as a very negative post in reply to yours. I do agree with you in general, and I´m very optimistic of what might be a very exciting future! But I do believe it is more a squad for the future than the here and now. And I fear we might lose players like Romero especially, and maybe even Porro, Udogie and van der Ven if we aren´t closing the gap to City and Arsenal, get CL and maybe most important of all: win a trophy. I think any trophy will do tbh.

The great failure of the Poch era was the inability to add the one or two "win here and now" signings that we needed to get the most talented and exciting squad our club has seen for decades over the line trophy wise.

Romero are entering his prime years, as are Richy and Solanke. Maddison, Bentancur, Bissouma and Viccario should be in theirs, while Son and Davies can´t be regarded to be entering anything but the twilight years of their prime. Benta and Biss have question marks about their future at the club, while two others that should´ve been in their prime years, Regi and Lo Celso, are more or less unwanted. If we lose Romero, Madders, Son and some of the others to age or other clubs before all the youngsters have grown into the level required, I fear we will continue to be an almost club, an also ran.

Really interesting post

 

[FloridaSpur]

I really like your post, mate: to try to be objective and coolheaded is always good to be reminded of. Saying that; as a fans´ community, it would be terribly boring without some heart, passion and strong opinions!

I´d like to comment on a few of your points if I may.

- Who will start of Solanke and Richarlison when both are fit, will be interesting to see. Personally I was not over the moon about the signing of Solanke for that amount of money, and I have doubts that his all over capabilities are dramatically better than Richy (some pluses, some minuses). But there cannot be much doubt that we have strengthened in the CF position. Which was desperately needed as Richy so far has not been able to stay match ready and/or fit for longer spells of time.

4 experienced players that are first team squad ready + who are all teenagers. This is imho a bit of a stretch and/or seen through some very rose tinted glasses.
- First of all: the numbers are wrong.
Bergvall was, for all practical reasons, acquired in the winter window. He signed a few days later, and was loaned back to Djurgården until the time when we wanted all our players to return after summer break. If you count him as a summer signing because he joined the squad this summer, then that logic means that Yang doesn´t count as a summer signing as he will not join before in the winter window. Did we sign Porro in January or July last year? He started playing for us in February, but he was formally a part of our club from July. These things are really formalities and workarounds for financial/bookkeeping reasons; Porro and Kulu were both signed on loans with obligation to buy. For all practical reasons they were Spurs players from the day they started representing the club. Only 3 are here now, and that imo is what matters. If Bergvall was a winter or summer signing, and if Yang is a signing now or for next year; what ever way you see it, the total for this summer - the here and now - cannot be seen as anything more than 3 players.

Speaking of the "here and now":

Most would - I know I certainly do - agree that Bergvall and Gray look to be amazing signings that hopefully will be great senior players for us. Hopefully Odobert will show us to be at the same level. But they are all very, very young. It is almost unheard of that teenagers play substantial minutes for any club in the top 5 leagues in Europe - Especially for the top clubs. It would be to put a unhealthy pressure on these young shoulders to expect them to break through and start say a third or more of our PL matches this season. The occasional start, valuable minutes as subs and in cups throughout the season is the best I think we should expect from any of them. Any more than that should be seen as a tremendous bonus imo. And, yes, I know you wrote "squad ready" and not starters in the first 11. But you also wrote "experienced senior players", which simply isn´t true. Perisic, Dier, Højbjerg, Royal, Lo Celso, Rodon and to some extent Sess and Skipp are experienced senior players. An 18 year old kid with a few months or at best a season or two with senior level minutes is not an experienced senior player.

In my mind, a "squad ready" player, is someone the coach will not hesitate to play at any time or place. Royal and Davies as centre backs and with PEH as the holding midfielder was obviously not Ange´s preferred line up (nor anyone else´s), but as experienced seniors he could trust them to do a professional job and be able to tackle the pressure. I very much doubt Ange will start G-O-B in a match of importance, and on top of that play two of them out of position. Hopefully they will get the occasional start and plenty of minutes and appearances coming on as subs.

Gray (born 2006) has one full season in the Championship. One. He looked tremendous in the summer training matches; he looked tidy when coming on against one of the weakest teams in the PL; and seems mature beyond his years. But he´s still 18 and 100% unproven on this level.

Bergvall (2006) has one and a half season in the top Swedish league. Which is not exactly superior to the Championship level wise. He has played 15 times the full 90 minutes in the top tier Swedish league, the Swedish cup and in the UEFA CL qualification combined. Fifteen full matches. He also has one season in the Swedish second tier league with a total of 15 appearances totalling less than 450 minutes. In a league that is a very junior level, and probably more comparable to the PL2 than to the lower professional English leagues. As Gray: he looks a tremendous talent, and - as with Gray - we are many that have very high hopes for his future. But right now: he´s 18 and still unproven at this level.

Odobert (2004) is the only one of these kids that has PL experience. He´s also born in 2004 and not `06 as the other three. With one full season in Ligue 1 and one in the PL, he is the one that should be closest to break through and get anything close to substantial playing time this season for us. One should be aware that both his senior seasons have been for teams that hav been relegated. To go from being an attacking player for a team with low expectations, to the same for a top PL side that is competing for European qualification is really different worlds. Reading Kompany´s words on him, and the way Burnley fans talk about him is of course very promising! But patience and a bit of caution should be applied: he´s definitely not a fully proven senior player on our desired level.

Yang (2006) I don´t know too much about, but to say that he has played many senior "mens" matches is simply not true. He has at current date appeared in 27 senior matches. Surprisingly many of them for 80+ minutes, must be said. But also: In a very inferior league compared to the levels required for European qualification in the PL. And: He debuted less than 6 months ago. If he´s not some kind of Asian Messi, there will be years before he´s regular starter for us. To move from literally the side of the planet and come to the most physically demanding league in the world is a huge step for anyone. Language, culture - it will be a whole new life and world for him, and thus should be given plenty of time to adjust. I guess he will train with the first team squad when he arrives, but if he gets anything more than a few seconds or minutes in added time in one or two matches, it will be a sensation. We will obviously have to see if he´s "squad ready" when he arrives next year, but the more realistic and careful view would be to give him at least 18 months from his arrival.

In appearances and minutes I´ll make the argument that none of them are anything close to experienced senior players.
Gray has 53 senior appearances and just edged 4,500 senior minutes on Monday; Odobert has 66 senior appearances and just over 4,200 minutes; Bergvall has just reached 3,000 minutes spread across 60 appearances (including 448 m/ 12apps at the second tier level in Sweden).

In comparison Oliver Skipp has over 150 senior appearances for us and Norwich combined , playing more than 9,650 minutes. I´m not sure that all would consider Skipp (23) to be an experienced senior. And this is a player that has played more than 40 matches and a 1,000 minutes more than Odobert and Gray - together. Conversationally, Skipp´s 24 matches for England U21s are actually more than what these 4 youngsters have played for their respective national U23, U21 and U20 sides combined and in total (14 apps).

The obvious potential for all three of Gray, Odobert & Bergvall I believe we all share! And, as you and many more have mentioned: Devine, Moore, Donley, Phillips, Scarlett, Veliz and even more coming up from the academy - the future looks really great! Add to the up and coming Udogie, Sarr, Dragusin, van der Ven, Johnson, Kulusevski, Spence, Porro who are all 24 or younger. If all the young talents continue to develop and "make it" and the ones that are already there continue to progress, we could have a tremendous and exciting team and squad for years to come. The keyword is "could". We are not there right now. And all kind of things might happen on the way - injuries and plateauing or even regressing. Dele Alli was on his way to global superstardom; Skipp was touted as the future Spurs captain by both Mourinho and Conte; and Sess was the most exciting English talent and player of the year for both club and Championship. One has just signed for a favourite to be relegated from the PL; one was signed by his old club in the hope he might be able to play professional football on the highest level again; one is without a club, hasn´t played a single minute for over a year, and nothing really close to a full season since 2019/20. Anything can happen, and sadly it does.

8 additions to the squad:

1 CF
4 teenagers
1 Werner
3 internal promotions from own academy (Devine, Moore & Lankshear)
- It adds up to 9, not 8.

As two of the latter three already had debuted for the senior´s team before the summer transfer window, I think most fans will consider it as overly creative to add them as "new" signings/additions. To count your club trained youngsters that are promoted from our own academy as new signings are for most football fans (across the world!) a very strange thought. They are the harvest of the club´s long time youth work. If you plant seeds or saplings in your garden and after many years you are able to eat apples from your own garden, it is not the same as going to the local grocery shop and buy ready to eat apples. Yes, both are your legal property, but in any other way a very different thing altogether.
And Werner has been re-signed on a new loan: not exactly your definition of a "new" addition as he played the second half of last season with us.

I know this will probably come across as a very negative post in reply to yours. I do agree with you in general, and I´m very optimistic of what might be a very exciting future! But I do believe it is more a squad for the future than the here and now. And I fear we might lose players like Romero especially, and maybe even Porro, Udogie and van der Ven if we aren´t closing the gap to City and Arsenal, get CL and maybe most important of all: win a trophy. I think any trophy will do tbh.

The great failure of the Poch era was the inability to add the one or two "win here and now" signings that we needed to get the most talented and exciting squad our club has seen for decades over the line trophy wise.

Romero are entering his prime years, as are Richy and Solanke. Maddison, Bentancur, Bissouma and Viccario should be in theirs, while Son and Davies can´t be regarded to be entering anything but the twilight years of their prime. Benta and Biss have question marks about their future at the club, while two others that should´ve been in their prime years, Regi and Lo Celso, are more or less unwanted. If we lose Romero, Madders, Son and some of the others to age or other clubs before all the youngsters have grown into the level required, I fear we will continue to be an almost club, an also ran.

Do you plan to release a second volume.

 

[Grey Fox]

I really like your post, mate: to try to be objective and coolheaded is always good to be reminded of. Saying that; as a fans´ community, it would be terribly boring without some heart, passion and strong opinions!

I´d like to comment on a few of your points if I may.

- Who will start of Solanke and Richarlison when both are fit, will be interesting to see. Personally I was not over the moon about the signing of Solanke for that amount of money, and I have doubts that his all over capabilities are dramatically better than Richy (some pluses, some minuses). But there cannot be much doubt that we have strengthened in the CF position. Which was desperately needed as Richy so far has not been able to stay match ready and/or fit for longer spells of time.

4 experienced players that are first team squad ready + who are all teenagers. This is imho a bit of a stretch and/or seen through some very rose tinted glasses.
- First of all: the numbers are wrong.
Bergvall was, for all practical reasons, acquired in the winter window. He signed a few days later, and was loaned back to Djurgården until the time when we wanted all our players to return after summer break. If you count him as a summer signing because he joined the squad this summer, then that logic means that Yang doesn´t count as a summer signing as he will not join before in the winter window. Did we sign Porro in January or July last year? He started playing for us in February, but he was formally a part of our club from July. These things are really formalities and workarounds for financial/bookkeeping reasons; Porro and Kulu were both signed on loans with obligation to buy. For all practical reasons they were Spurs players from the day they started representing the club. Only 3 are here now, and that imo is what matters. If Bergvall was a winter or summer signing, and if Yang is a signing now or for next year; what ever way you see it, the total for this summer - the here and now - cannot be seen as anything more than 3 players.

Speaking of the "here and now":

Most would - I know I certainly do - agree that Bergvall and Gray look to be amazing signings that hopefully will be great senior players for us. Hopefully Odobert will show us to be at the same level. But they are all very, very young. It is almost unheard of that teenagers play substantial minutes for any club in the top 5 leagues in Europe - Especially for the top clubs. It would be to put a unhealthy pressure on these young shoulders to expect them to break through and start say a third or more of our PL matches this season. The occasional start, valuable minutes as subs and in cups throughout the season is the best I think we should expect from any of them. Any more than that should be seen as a tremendous bonus imo. And, yes, I know you wrote "squad ready" and not starters in the first 11. But you also wrote "experienced senior players", which simply isn´t true. Perisic, Dier, Højbjerg, Royal, Lo Celso, Rodon and to some extent Sess and Skipp are experienced senior players. An 18 year old kid with a few months or at best a season or two with senior level minutes is not an experienced senior player.

In my mind, a "squad ready" player, is someone the coach will not hesitate to play at any time or place. Royal and Davies as centre backs and with PEH as the holding midfielder was obviously not Ange´s preferred line up (nor anyone else´s), but as experienced seniors he could trust them to do a professional job and be able to tackle the pressure. I very much doubt Ange will start G-O-B in a match of importance, and on top of that play two of them out of position. Hopefully they will get the occasional start and plenty of minutes and appearances coming on as subs.

Gray (born 2006) has one full season in the Championship. One. He looked tremendous in the summer training matches; he looked tidy when coming on against one of the weakest teams in the PL; and seems mature beyond his years. But he´s still 18 and 100% unproven on this level.

Bergvall (2006) has one and a half season in the top Swedish league. Which is not exactly superior to the Championship level wise. He has played 15 times the full 90 minutes in the top tier Swedish league, the Swedish cup and in the UEFA CL qualification combined. Fifteen full matches. He also has one season in the Swedish second tier league with a total of 15 appearances totalling less than 450 minutes. In a league that is a very junior level, and probably more comparable to the PL2 than to the lower professional English leagues. As Gray: he looks a tremendous talent, and - as with Gray - we are many that have very high hopes for his future. But right now: he´s 18 and still unproven at this level.

Odobert (2004) is the only one of these kids that has PL experience. He´s also born in 2004 and not `06 as the other three. With one full season in Ligue 1 and one in the PL, he is the one that should be closest to break through and get anything close to substantial playing time this season for us. One should be aware that both his senior seasons have been for teams that hav been relegated. To go from being an attacking player for a team with low expectations, to the same for a top PL side that is competing for European qualification is really different worlds. Reading Kompany´s words on him, and the way Burnley fans talk about him is of course very promising! But patience and a bit of caution should be applied: he´s definitely not a fully proven senior player on our desired level.

Yang (2006) I don´t know too much about, but to say that he has played many senior "mens" matches is simply not true. He has at current date appeared in 27 senior matches. Surprisingly many of them for 80+ minutes, must be said. But also: In a very inferior league compared to the levels required for European qualification in the PL. And: He debuted less than 6 months ago. If he´s not some kind of Asian Messi, there will be years before he´s regular starter for us. To move from literally the side of the planet and come to the most physically demanding league in the world is a huge step for anyone. Language, culture - it will be a whole new life and world for him, and thus should be given plenty of time to adjust. I guess he will train with the first team squad when he arrives, but if he gets anything more than a few seconds or minutes in added time in one or two matches, it will be a sensation. We will obviously have to see if he´s "squad ready" when he arrives next year, but the more realistic and careful view would be to give him at least 18 months from his arrival.

In appearances and minutes I´ll make the argument that none of them are anything close to experienced senior players.
Gray has 53 senior appearances and just edged 4,500 senior minutes on Monday; Odobert has 66 senior appearances and just over 4,200 minutes; Bergvall has just reached 3,000 minutes spread across 60 appearances (including 448 m/ 12apps at the second tier level in Sweden).

In comparison Oliver Skipp has over 150 senior appearances for us and Norwich combined , playing more than 9,650 minutes. I´m not sure that all would consider Skipp (23) to be an experienced senior. And this is a player that has played more than 40 matches and a 1,000 minutes more than Odobert and Gray - together. Conversationally, Skipp´s 24 matches for England U21s are actually more than what these 4 youngsters have played for their respective national U23, U21 and U20 sides combined and in total (14 apps).

The obvious potential for all three of Gray, Odobert & Bergvall I believe we all share! And, as you and many more have mentioned: Devine, Moore, Donley, Phillips, Scarlett, Veliz and even more coming up from the academy - the future looks really great! Add to the up and coming Udogie, Sarr, Dragusin, van der Ven, Johnson, Kulusevski, Spence, Porro who are all 24 or younger. If all the young talents continue to develop and "make it" and the ones that are already there continue to progress, we could have a tremendous and exciting team and squad for years to come. The keyword is "could". We are not there right now. And all kind of things might happen on the way - injuries and plateauing or even regressing. Dele Alli was on his way to global superstardom; Skipp was touted as the future Spurs captain by both Mourinho and Conte; and Sess was the most exciting English talent and player of the year for both club and Championship. One has just signed for a favourite to be relegated from the PL; one was signed by his old club in the hope he might be able to play professional football on the highest level again; one is without a club, hasn´t played a single minute for over a year, and nothing really close to a full season since 2019/20. Anything can happen, and sadly it does.

8 additions to the squad:

1 CF
4 teenagers
1 Werner
3 internal promotions from own academy (Devine, Moore & Lankshear)
- It adds up to 9, not 8.

As two of the latter three already had debuted for the senior´s team before the summer transfer window, I think most fans will consider it as overly creative to add them as "new" signings/additions. To count your club trained youngsters that are promoted from our own academy as new signings are for most football fans (across the world!) a very strange thought. They are the harvest of the club´s long time youth work. If you plant seeds or saplings in your garden and after many years you are able to eat apples from your own garden, it is not the same as going to the local grocery shop and buy ready to eat apples. Yes, both are your legal property, but in any other way a very different thing altogether.
And Werner has been re-signed on a new loan: not exactly your definition of a "new" addition as he played the second half of last season with us.

I know this will probably come across as a very negative post in reply to yours. I do agree with you in general, and I´m very optimistic of what might be a very exciting future! But I do believe it is more a squad for the future than the here and now. And I fear we might lose players like Romero especially, and maybe even Porro, Udogie and van der Ven if we aren´t closing the gap to City and Arsenal, get CL and maybe most important of all: win a trophy. I think any trophy will do tbh.

The great failure of the Poch era was the inability to add the one or two "win here and now" signings that we needed to get the most talented and exciting squad our club has seen for decades over the line trophy wise.

Romero are entering his prime years, as are Richy and Solanke. Maddison, Bentancur, Bissouma and Viccario should be in theirs, while Son and Davies can´t be regarded to be entering anything but the twilight years of their prime. Benta and Biss have question marks about their future at the club, while two others that should´ve been in their prime years, Regi and Lo Celso, are more or less unwanted. If we lose Romero, Madders, Son and some of the others to age or other clubs before all the youngsters have grown into the level required, I fear we will continue to be an almost club, an also ran.

Welcome back Bus Conductor

 

[Cochise]

On the subject of Eze; he looked a little bit below his usual level in the MOTD highlights. Anyone else think the same? Anyone know if the Palace fans think the same?

 

[Cinemattis]

Do you plan to release a second volume.

That was just a short prologue to the first volume!


My liege and madam, to expostulate
What majesty should be, what duty is,
Why day is day, night, night, and time is time —
Were nothing but to waste night, day, and time.
Therefore, since brevity is the soul of wit,
And tediousness the limbs and outward flourishes,
I will be brief.

 

[VoteMe4Prez]

On the subject of Eze; he looked a little bit below his usual level in the MOTD highlights. Anyone else think the same? Anyone know if the Palace fans think the same?

Heads turned

 

[1882andallthat]

On the subject of Eze; he looked a little bit below his usual level in the MOTD highlights. Anyone else think the same? Anyone know if the Palace fans think the same?

On the subject of Eze and Palace, from the MOTD highlights, it looked like they dominated the game for most of it and were unlucky not to win by at least 3 or so goals, with a combination of poor finishing and the goalkeeper and woodwork saving the Spammers who were arsehole lucky with a couple of on the break counter attack smash and grab raids against the run of play.

 

[vegassd]

I know this will probably come across as a very negative post in reply to yours. I do agree with you in general, and I´m very optimistic of what might be a very exciting future! But I do believe it is more a squad for the future than the here and now. And I fear we might lose players like Romero especially, and maybe even Porro, Udogie and van der Ven if we aren´t closing the gap to City and Arsenal, get CL and maybe most important of all: win a trophy. I think any trophy will do tbh.

It's been interesting seeing some of the views about selling/losing Romero that have come out this summer (appreciate this is the Eze thread). I think the reality is that we are always going to have some top class players who want to leave the club - even if we are winning trophies. If somebody like Romero believes he should be at Madrid and winning the CL, there isn't a huge amount we can do to prevent that.

So our best approach is to keep the conveyor belt of emerging talent rolling. We can probably point to the likes of Vuskovic and Yang as those types of conveyor belt signings, and I would like us to keep that side of things active regardless of first team signings.

On the topic of "here and now" players, I have very much been on the Eze train this summer so it's a shame we haven't picked him up. But saying that, we also must appreciate that there is a limit to the budget so I can see why we didn't make that move. I do like the idea putting faith in our current squad (including youngsters) rather than the "spend first, think later" approach of Chelsea, as long as there is willingness from the club to spend the money if/when it does become essential.

I don't think we will close the gap to City simply by buying expensive players. We need to do things a bit differently, and take a leaf out of Arsenal's book in terms of sticking with a plan. Arsenal aren't magically challenging for the league because of some divine right... they were far off the CL places for a while and underwent a true rebuild. Our challenge is to follow that same strategy, but to do it in a sustainable way to avoid our team hitting a slump as the likes of Son/Romero/whoever do depart.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

On the subject of Eze; he looked a little bit below his usual level in the MOTD highlights. Anyone else think the same? Anyone know if the Palace fans think the same?

He hit the bar and had a few other chances, he also played well match day 1, looks such a talent, surely someone(likely City) will snap him up before end of the window.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Palace have started the season pretty poorly - maybe there's a bit of a funk over there at the moment, and he's struggling with it too?

Either way, I'd be stunned if he came to us now

 

[yido_number1]

Palace have started the season pretty poorly - maybe there's a bit of a funk over there at the moment, and he's struggling with it too?

Either way, I'd be stunned if he came to us now

I think they have some money to spend over there. Ownership issues don't help though