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Comolli and Ramos?

joey55

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2005
9,690
3,153
Can anyone tell me if there has there ever been an example of a head coach being successful when working under a Director of Football from a different football culture? Even the very best coaches in the world can’t do a good job unless they have the types of players they like and are suited to the way they want to play football. So, it is therefore essential that the coach in an appointment of the Sporting Director, so he can be sure he knows they like the same kind of players and like to recruit from the same markets (leagues). Jol was Arnesen's man and it worked well. Arnesen wanted Jol from the start, but Levy wanted a higher profile name and appointed Sanitini and things didn’t work out. It just seems highly unlikely to me that Ramos is an appointment made by Comolli. In fact in general, I’m not at all sure Comolli is being allowed to be a Director of Football in the way he should be (I’ve posted before about how I believe Levy dictates transfer policy).

Ramos (assuming we appoint him) is undeniably a very talented coach, but anyone who thinks he’ll get our current squad playing like Seville (or sort out our defensive problems) are living in a dream world. Ramos is a typically Latin style coach and therefore at the core of his sides are Latin players (ie Spanish, Italian and South American). There is absolutely no correlation between the style of players at the core of the Seville side and the core of our side. The likes of Adriano, Navas, Alves, Renato, and Dudu etc are just so incredibly different in style to the likes of JJ, TT, Zokora, Lennon, Dawson and Chimbonda etc. They are from totally different football cultures, as are Ramos and Comolli. There will be similarities in our squads, but I’m talking about the core group of players. Anyone who watches the Prem and Ligue 1 and then compares the football to that played in La Liga will know what I mean.

For Ramos to be successful he needs to have a group of players who can play “Ramos” football. It’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to have success without the right players. Just look at Benitez, he always has at least 10 Spanish or South American players in his squads and at least 4 Spanish back room staff. Wenger brought in 6 French players in his first year alone. Ramos should be given the same. He has to be able to put his own stamp on the team. Which in itself is a concern. Isn’t the whole point of the Director of Football system that when a new coach comes in, there is no need for massive changes in playing staff? Yet, I can’t see how it is fair to expect Ramos to succeed without wholesale changes. And is Comolli the man to help make these changes? I haven’t seen a great deal of evidence to suggest that Comolli is an expert in the markets where Ramos will want to do his shopping.

Surely it would make more sense to find a coach who will be more suited to the players we currently have and have a similar philosophy to that of Comolli. The likes of Claude Puel or Elie Baup have to be more suitable for our current set up than Ramos. No matter how good a coach Ramos is, he can’t do the job without the right players. Even Wenger has failed in past jobs, yet we all know the quality of football he can get teams playing. But could he do it with someone else buying the players? Someone who hasn’t got a past that suggests he has a good knowledge of “Wenger” type players? I seriously doubt it.

I think the key to success with the Director of Football system is to make sure everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. That is why I think it is imperative that the Director of Football is the man who appoints the coach and not the chairman. I’m just not convinced that this is the case at Spurs. I can’t help but feel Comolli would have gone for a different man. I think Levy was perhaps looking more for a “name,” than the right man for the job. I have a feeling Levy hasn’t learned from his past mistake (appointing Santini and not Jol). In fact he probably doesn’t want to, as Ramos is a name that makes the club more attractive (to potential buyers) and I’ve said for a while now that Levy is looking at an exit strategy. The recent financial results support this argument and I can’t help but feel that to an extent the board are currently more concerned with making the club as an attractive proposition for a take over than moving us forward on the pitch.
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
25,914
16,413
I think Ramos is a Levy signing as well.What happens to the policy of buying the best young English talent now? He can barely speak english. They gave Martin 40+ million to spend and then started looking for a new coach. Incredible! Ramos to be successful must get top four within two years,maybe three years at a stretch. I believe that is a impossible task. I remain unconvinced that Ramos will actually be able to get the players he wants.

Poyet looks like he will be joining us I wonder who made that decision? I feel that it wasn't Ramos. I am sure the club will be sold as soon as Levy gets an dizzying offer that he is happy with.
 

whendayearendsin1

New Member
Jan 31, 2005
144
0
For me different league means different players. Majority of players he has at the moment would not cut it in our league because culture, pace of the game amount of games etc. Look at Henry, top player in our league but in the Spanish league he is finding it difficult to adjust.

So a question is can his coaching style adapt to our league and the players he will be asked to coach and can he develop the likes of Hudd, Defoe, Daw, DZ, JJ etc... Because I don't think we will change the type of players we sign.
 

joey55

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2005
9,690
3,153
For me different league means different players. Majority of players he has at the moment would not cut it in our league because culture, pace of the game amount of games etc. Look at Henry, top player in our league but in the Spanish league he is finding it difficult to adjust.

So a question is can his coaching style adapt to our league and the players he will be asked to coach and can he develop the likes of Hudd, Defoe, Daw, DZ, JJ etc... Because I don't think we will change the type of players we sign.

There is something in what you are saying here, but the examples of Benitez and Wenger tell a different story. Even Mourinho, who had the biggest transfer kitty in the world, chose to bring in 3 players from Portugal and wanted a 4th (Deco). Without the right sort of players, those he is comfortable working with, then I just can't see how Ramos can be expected to do the job.
 

Spursking

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2004
5,431
2,457
The setup with Arnesen/Comolli is the main factor for our progress the past two seasons. Comolli has done a great job, and the new management have all in place to take over. Of course we are always looking at getting additions to the squad, and that will happen. The future is bright because of the appointment of Comolli.
 

joey55

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2005
9,690
3,153
The setup with Arnesen/Comolli is the main factor for our progress the past two seasons. Comolli has done a great job, and the new management have all in place to take over. Of course we are always looking at getting additions to the squad, and that will happen. The future is bright because of the appointment of Comolli.

I'm not so sure Comolli has done a gret job, but at the same time i think things have been very difficult for him. There is more to a Director of Footballs job than scouting and buying new players. In that respect (player recruitment) I'm much more of a fan of the work he has done bringing in youngsters than 1st team players, which given his background is unsuprising. The Director of Football is, I believe, is suppossed to be a football voice at the board room level, yet I don't see much evidence that Comolli has been strong enough in this area. I think maybe an older more experienced man would have perhaps been less flexible to accomodating of Levys ideas and more assertive in getting what the coach needed. I've said in previous threads that I seriously doubt Jol and Comolli sat down in the summer and thought we need another striker, or the answer to our deffensive organisation was a 21 year old, or that the left wing problem could be solved at a later date. So this suggests to me that Comolli is having transfer strategy dictated to him, which I think is flawed. I think this is the ideal time for Comolli to get the coach he wants in and step up his own game outside of the scouting and recruitment side of things. Though this won't happen. In which case, I don't think the idea of a football consultant is a bad one. I know fans in general are against having too many people involved with the running of the club, but I feel we could really do with someone who can really take a tougher line with the board. We need a real communicator at board room level to represent the football side of the club. This was meant to be the Director of Football, but I have doubts about Comollis ability to perform this part of his job effectively.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Joey, you make some well thought out points. Mourinho is an example of a manager who was brought in to the EPL because he was a proven "winner" with strong personality who succesfully worked under a DOF (Kenyon) from a different culture. But it has to be said kenyon was a slightly different animal to Comoli. And Comoli's job at spurs was probably split between Arnesen & Grant ?? with Kenyon being more active on the financial side of things. But Mourinho still worked under culturally different structure. And it was a DOF (if anything more complex) structure.

I understand the suggestion of managers like Eli Baup - I have watched Toulouse often (you may remember me talking about Achilie Emana) - but I think in Ramos the board are trying to get a manager who is a proven winner with a winners mentality (we have talked about this before at length). They have this young progressive team. They have adopted the same buying structure as arsenal but see arsenal's kids blossoming, being fantastically schooled to run harder, faster and play as a unit whilst ours just don't seem to progress in the sam way. I think they are hoping that Ramos will be the man to instill some of this. At Sevilla he is known as being a "firm but fair" disciplinarian (One thing that we can all see is there is much work to be done in the fitness and movement off the ball dept.) that also encourages a stylish brand of football.

I think, rightly or wrongly, the board would see people like Eli Baup as more in the Jol mould. Good coaches but a big question mark over whether they are very top drawer.

Like you I hope he is allowed to bring in two or three players of his choosing - his pitch ambassadors - like Mourinho and benitez etc.

maybe part of the discussions were Ramos letting the board know that he has a good latin am/spanish scouting contact network himself - after all he has been around the block a few times over a few years - and that is another reason he appeals. Just a hunch.
 

hybridsoldier

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2004
5,892
1,185
really we have to hope that ramos can get us back in the uefa this season, and then try and push on next year

im not convicned ramos is as nailed on as people think though...
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,401
34,108
Can anyone tell me if there has there ever been an example of a head coach being successful when working under a Director of Football from a different football culture? Even the very best coaches in the world can’t do a good job unless they have the types of players they like and are suited to the way they want to play football. So, it is therefore essential that the coach in an appointment of the Sporting Director, so he can be sure he knows they like the same kind of players and like to recruit from the same markets (leagues). Jol was Arnesen's man and it worked well. Arnesen wanted Jol from the start, but Levy wanted a higher profile name and appointed Sanitini and things didn’t work out. It just seems highly unlikely to me that Ramos is an appointment made by Comolli. In fact in general, I’m not at all sure Comolli is being allowed to be a Director of Football in the way he should be (I’ve posted before about how I believe Levy dictates transfer policy).

Ramos (assuming we appoint him) is undeniably a very talented coach, but anyone who thinks he’ll get our current squad playing like Seville (or sort out our defensive problems) are living in a dream world. Ramos is a typically Latin style coach and therefore at the core of his sides are Latin players (ie Spanish, Italian and South American). There is absolutely no correlation between the style of players at the core of the Seville side and the core of our side. The likes of Adriano, Navas, Alves, Renato, and Dudu etc are just so incredibly different in style to the likes of JJ, TT, Zokora, Lennon, Dawson and Chimbonda etc. They are from totally different football cultures, as are Ramos and Comolli. There will be similarities in our squads, but I’m talking about the core group of players. Anyone who watches the Prem and Ligue 1 and then compares the football to that played in La Liga will know what I mean.

For Ramos to be successful he needs to have a group of players who can play “Ramos” football. It’s unfair and unrealistic to expect him to have success without the right players. Just look at Benitez, he always has at least 10 Spanish or South American players in his squads and at least 4 Spanish back room staff. Wenger brought in 6 French players in his first year alone. Ramos should be given the same. He has to be able to put his own stamp on the team. Which in itself is a concern. Isn’t the whole point of the Director of Football system that when a new coach comes in, there is no need for massive changes in playing staff? Yet, I can’t see how it is fair to expect Ramos to succeed without wholesale changes. And is Comolli the man to help make these changes? I haven’t seen a great deal of evidence to suggest that Comolli is an expert in the markets where Ramos will want to do his shopping.

Surely it would make more sense to find a coach who will be more suited to the players we currently have and have a similar philosophy to that of Comolli. The likes of Claude Puel or Elie Baup have to be more suitable for our current set up than Ramos. No matter how good a coach Ramos is, he can’t do the job without the right players. Even Wenger has failed in past jobs, yet we all know the quality of football he can get teams playing. But could he do it with someone else buying the players? Someone who hasn’t got a past that suggests he has a good knowledge of “Wenger” type players? I seriously doubt it.

I think the key to success with the Director of Football system is to make sure everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. That is why I think it is imperative that the Director of Football is the man who appoints the coach and not the chairman. I’m just not convinced that this is the case at Spurs. I can’t help but feel Comolli would have gone for a different man. I think Levy was perhaps looking more for a “name,” than the right man for the job. I have a feeling Levy hasn’t learned from his past mistake (appointing Santini and not Jol). In fact he probably doesn’t want to, as Ramos is a name that makes the club more attractive (to potential buyers) and I’ve said for a while now that Levy is looking at an exit strategy. The recent financial results support this argument and I can’t help but feel that to an extent the board are currently more concerned with making the club as an attractive proposition for a take over than moving us forward on the pitch.

doesn't that go hand in hand

on the players in front its been reported elsewhere that Ramos wanted 2 conditions in place before he would join us.

1 - he is solely reponsible for bringing in players for the 1st team, Comolli will bring in youth players.

2 - he has overall command of all sporting decisions

was reported by 1 of the Spanish media
 

joey55

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2005
9,690
3,153
doesn't that go hand in hand Not if the plan is to sell within the next year, which I strongly suspect it is. It would make very little financial sense for Enic not try and sell now. The obvious thing for us to do to take the next step is to spend some big money that we aren't likely to see a return on. Yet if you are hoping to sell the club, then a healthy profit is more important. I said after the £12 million 6 month profit, the Levy was essentially putting up a "for sale" sign. This is even more the case with the recent figures.

on the players in front its been reported elsewhere that Ramos wanted 2 conditions in place before he would join us.

1 - he is solely reponsible for bringing in players for the 1st team, Comolli will bring in youth players. That is very good news if true and exaclty what i would want.

2 - he has overall command of all sporting decisions

was reported by 1 of the Spanish media
.
 

whendayearendsin1

New Member
Jan 31, 2005
144
0
There is something in what you are saying here, but the examples of Benitez and Wenger tell a different story. Even Mourinho, who had the biggest transfer kitty in the world, chose to bring in 3 players from Portugal and wanted a 4th (Deco). Without the right sort of players, those he is comfortable working with, then I just can't see how Ramos can be expected to do the job.

True all managers like players who have played for them before. Is there anyone in Sevilla squad who can do a job in england and not cost huge amounts of money?
 
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