Club statement regarding alleged racism

[chrissivad]

If the next person believes they have been subjected to racism can prove it happened, using our ground's technology which can analyse each and every supporter, then great. Ban. fine, imprison the guilty.
But there needs to be a penalty for a wrongly accusation.
The club and police "exhausted all avenues of investigation".
"There is no evidence to corroborate or contradict the allegation," they said.
No evidence.
Proving a negative and burden of proof. He needs to apologise as obviously he can't retract his statement.

No there doesn't.

Not in every case anyway.

 

[FinnYid]

Can we provide evidence that it 100% didn't happen?
Because the wording of our investigation with the police does not say that the alleged racist comments didn't happen.

We can't, however via lack of evindence and presumption of innocence common view ought to be it didn't happen. I mean one can claim he intentionally lied and If he can't prove otherwise, should he be judged a liar? Should there even be a doubt? No because lack of any evidence that he intentionally lied. Same goes other way around, club should be removed of any doubt considering 60 000 people, other players, officials, stewardes and all the cameras didn't get it.

However his current comments come quite close to painting a picture of cover up by club and police and If he takes more direct route on this, there might be basis for action, but now it's more of an innuendo.

 

[chrissivad]

We can't, however via lack of evindence and presumption of innocence common view ought to be it didn't happen. I mean one can claim he intentionally lied and If he can't prove otherwise, should he be judged a liar? Should there even be a doubt? No because lack of any evidence that he intentionally lied. Same goes other way around, club should be removed of any doubt considering 60 000 people, other players, officials, stewardes and all the cameras didn't get it.

But how would you prove he lied if he believed what he heard was correct?

Just because we haven't found any evidence doesn't make him a liar.

It also doesn't mean he isn't... But... Again it would need to be proved that he didn't hear any racist comments and made it up, otherwise its a false claim against him if we can't then back it up.

 

[Col_M]

I’ve sat in the stadium and there are some very offensive comments thrown at players, refs and even out players. Sometimes the aggression scares me, and it’s normally when they have their kids with them. I don’t doubt that someone screamed racist obscenities, they’re just lucky they haven’t been caught.

 

[FinnYid]

But how would you prove he lied if he believed what he heard was correct?

Of course it can't be proven, likewise it's almost impossible to prove that racist chants didn't happen. Was just trying to make a point that claims on how we can't prove it didn't happen are rather moot. We can prove though it is very unlikely it happened and that is what club and police have done.

Club has taken right stance via whole situation, also on statement after recent Rudiger comments. Looking via twitter reactions on Rudiger comments, his last comments were a mistake and did himself no favours.

 

[bloodzeed]

picture this he heard racist chants no one in the stands heard any such thing We are talking about 60k
and there is no way a whole stand would be racist

He must have some amazing hearing to hear a fan over fans.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

If the next person believes they have been subjected to racism can prove it happened, using our ground's technology which can analyse each and every supporter, then great. Ban. fine, imprison the guilty.
But there needs to be a penalty for a wrongly accusation.
The club and police "exhausted all avenues of investigation".
"There is no evidence to corroborate or contradict the allegation," they said.
No evidence.
Proving a negative and burden of proof. He needs to apologise as obviously he can't retract his statement.

These comments are fucking disgusting. So by your rationale you want to create a climate where a player like Dele or Sonny feel scared to call out any suspected racist abuse they might receive for fear that they might get punished if no evidence can be found? So we could essentially be punishing the victim rather than the perpertrator? Sounds great doesn't it?

I thought we had moved on from the 70s and 80s when players were expected to suffer in isolation for fear of being called out for 'playing the race card' but comments like yours prove, unfortunately, that these attitudes still exist. Absolutely shocking.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

picture this he heard racist chants no one in the stands heard any such thing We are talking about 60k
and there is no way a whole stand would be racist

He must have some amazing hearing to hear a fan over fans.

Doesn't mean he's a liar though does it FFS. Yes he might have misheard the abuse but doesn't mean he's lying. I don't understand why this is so hard for some of you to understand smh

 

[worcestersauce]

Can we provide evidence that it 100% didn't happen?
Because the wording of our investigation with the police does not say that the alleged racist comments didn't happen.

With all the technology you say there is, why can't we come out and say it didn't happen?

There would be no winner in this if the club try and get an apology from the player. He thought he heard something, nothing has been found and that should have been the end of it.

But trying to charge him for wrongful accusation, or slander will do more harm for the next person who believes they are subject to racist comments.

That's pretty well what they did say. They looked at miles of footage from all angles all audio sources and even brought in lip readers. Following that they called in the police who checked all of the evidence and in the end in conjunction with the police said there was no evidence of any racist abuse. That is as absolute as you can go other than saying there was no racist abuse which can only be interpreted as saying he lied which you just mustn't do.
On another point am I right in understanding that fans are being attacked here not for being racist but for calling other fans racist?

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Doesn't mean he's a liar though does it FFS. Yes he might have misheard the abuse but doesn't mean he's lying. I don't understand why this is so hard for some of you to understand smh

Agreed, and he is right about not being silent in the future as well.

Tell you where he is wrong though the words 'Racism Has Won' that's inviting trouble after the fact.

 

[nuttynoah]

These comments are fucking disgusting. So by your rationale you want to create a climate where a player like Dele or Sonny feel scared to call out any suspected racist abuse they might receive for fear that they might get punished if no evidence can be found? So we could essentially be punishing the victim rather than the perpertrator? Sounds great doesn't it?

I thought we had moved on from the 70s and 80s when players were expected to suffer in isolation for fear of being called out for 'playing the race card' but comments like yours prove, unfortunately, that these attitudes still exist. Absolutely shocking.

Come off it, you're stretching what i wrote to illogical conclusions.
Maybe you just mis-understood.
In the match in question Son was racially abused and the racist was dealt with after being shopped by his fellow supporters. Any player can file a complaint about verbal or physical abuse of any kind. As can anyone within the stadium but doesn't there need to be some consequence if the charges are unfounded, without any supporting evidence.
I would hardly call an apology, however thinly worded a punishment. Otherwise it's open season.
What if during the match we'd gone 5 goals up. What's to stop him repeating the accusation and getting the match abandoned? His play acting in getting Son red carded suggest he's a man of questionable morals.
Rights come with responsibilities.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Come off it, you're stretching what i wrote to illogical conclusions.
Maybe you just mis-understood.
In the match in question Son was racially abused and the racist was dealt with after being shopped by his fellow supporters. Any player can file a complaint about verbal or physical abuse of any kind. As can anyone within the stadium but doesn't there need to be some consequence if the charges are unfounded, without any supporting evidence.
I would hardly call an apology, however thinly worded a punishment. Otherwise it's open season.
What if during the match we'd gone 5 goals up. What's to stop him repeating the accusation and getting the match abandoned? His play acting in getting Son red carded suggest he's a man of questionable morals.
Rights come with responsibilities.

I didn't misunderstand anything.

Questioning the integrity of anyone who calls out racism is treading a very thin line. No technology is going to be able to 100% prove his claims are false so why does he need to apologise or be punished? Why is any culpabilty being place on him? He heard what he heard.

Once you start doubting the integrity of a person who claims they have been racially abused you create a climate where people are scared to speak out. As i've already said, this is where we want to move on from.

 

[stonecolddeanaustin]

This has probably already been said but I think it's highly likely he misheard people chanting "cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat" as monkey noises. The "chants" have the exact same tone and rhythm as one another so it's really not hard to believe.

 

[Dougal]

This has probably already been said but I think it's highly likely he misheard people chanting "cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat" as monkey noises. The "chants" have the exact same tone and rhythm as one another so it's really not hard to believe.

Most likely. I don’t think at that moment in time even a racist would be reaching for his dumb-arse knuckle-dragging monkey impression when the obvious response to seeing Rudiger overdoing his reaction to Son kicking out would be anything other than to call him a cheat. It’s completely out of context emotionally. And should this be the case it’s way too far down the line for Rudiger to backtrack. If he truly believes that he heard a racist chant then that’s 100% locked in. He’s even doubled down on the claim to now claim a cover up and collusion which is just approaching the ridiculous and goes someway to questioning his integrity. If Spurs found someone who did this they’d ban them. It’s a far more effective and applaudable stance than covering it up.

 

[nailsy]

A few people have said that this chant was happening at the same time the incident occurred. It's so easy to picture that the "Who, who, who" at around fifteen seconds in the clip below could be mistaken for monkey chants. The first time I heard it I did a double take as well.



(Obviously this is from a different game, but you get the Idea)

 

[buckley]

The argument "Scared to speak out " affects those that want to say " they heard racist remarks " but also affects anybody that says " I did not hear nothing " because if you say you heard nothing you get all kinds of abuse among which are " you are a racist " so I would suggest if you did not hear any racist remark say nothing or you will get all kinds of abuse from those that see racism in everything and everywhere .
Keep what you know is true to yourself its not worth the abuse you get .

 

[nailsy]

The argument "Scared to speak out " affects those that want to say " they heard racist remarks " but also affects anybody that says " I did not hear nothing " because if you say you heard nothing you get all kinds of abuse among which are " you are a racist " so I would suggest if you did not hear any racist remark say nothing or you will get all kinds of abuse from those that see racism in everything and everywhere .
Keep what you know is true to yourself its not worth the abuse you get .

This sounds like a personal incident, rather than what actually happened at the game?

 

[punkisback]

The argument "Scared to speak out " affects those that want to say " they heard racist remarks " but also affects anybody that says " I did not hear nothing " because if you say you heard nothing you get all kinds of abuse among which are " you are a racist " so I would suggest if you did not hear any racist remark say nothing or you will get all kinds of abuse from those that see racism in everything and everywhere .
Keep what you know is true to yourself its not worth the abuse you get .

No one has called anyone a racist if they've said they have heard nothing; where are you getting this from?! All we have said is that we can't deny what he has said. Furthermore by booing him it shows how much contempt we have for accusations of racism.

 

[buckley]

I was at the game and saw and heard nothing along racists lines as usual .
But on this site there are some fighting to be first act in a way that is saying to me " look at me I am not racist " but anybody that does not toe the PC line even tho what they are saying is the truth Is pushed to one side and bugger the truth that does not fit my anti racist agenda .
This is the last time I am going to say I have never heard racist chanting by spurs fans at the lane and I will not back down because what I am saying is truthful . The PC brigade can twist what i say as much as they like but it will not change what's the truth .
I am sick of this incident bringing this clubs name thru the mud when the facts yes the facts are no evidence was found to back up Rudiger .
Here comes the "But you can't say it definitely was not said ' and so it goes back and forth like a ping pong ball
What I can say is 62000 fans countless stewards tv analysts speech analysis police scrutiny could find nothing out of order yet he alone heard racists remarks then all I can say you are calling all those involved either liars or are in denial or are corrupt or are also racist in saying they heard nothing or perhaps they are all deaf .
Or it could be Rudiger misheard or it could be that a man that has previous for the same thing is not of the highest character which by the way would give the people that we all know for sure are genuine a real kick in the teeth .
I know what I blieve to be the truth going by what all the facts say to me .
I am tired of pushing this pea uphill with my nose against the hill that is full of PC people that refuse to believe the truth .
I will forever keep my gob shut on this subject as it is futile to carry on the tide of righteousness is too powerful .

 

[FinnYid]

Furthermore by booing him it shows how much contempt we have for accusations of racism.

Or how much contempt we have for unbased accusations on issues we see as vile and disgusting.