Match Threads Brighton vs Spurs

[kitchen]

It’s not just the players fault it’s the whole system that collapses under any kind of pressure.

A mental collapse, which is what it was, is on the players, and is not the fault of the system.

Intensity is down to the players, the manager cannot do it for them, even though he demands it and it is integral to the way we play. We lost the intensity in the second half, then a collective mental collapse occurred once they scored, with sloppy passing, less effective and less coherent pressing, and mistakes started creeping in.

 

[ethanedwards]

Is the pressing sustainable for 97 minutes though?

The godfather of the high press, Arrigo Sacchi, couldn't sustain it with possibly the greatest club side of all time, the players eventually rebelled.

 

[hughy]

woken up still absolutely raging about this

Yeah, it's a really difficult one to take.

Sometimes the manner of the defeat is worse than the defeat itself. I know that any team in the league could lose at Brighton, but it's just so disappointing how it happened, and how we just looked lost as soon as they got themselves back in the game.

 

[kitchen]

At the end of the day the best teams are built on a solid defence, evidently that's still our biggest weakness and we need to start tweaking that area. I never ever feel confident that we can keep a clean sheet, that's an issue for a team competing at the level we are and trying to win things.

Premier League xG (Expected Goals) | FootyStats

Expected Goals data for the England Premier League - including xG, xG Against (Conceded), and xG at home and away. Stats use advanced xG modelling for the Premier League.

footystats.org

Our xGA or expected goals to be conceded is the 2nd best in the league.

Teams tend to be clinical against us for some reason, and perhaps we give up bigger chances than less open teams, but the other side of the argument is we need to be more clinical with very good chances ourselves. Werner's current finishing ability is not helping as he has had big chances, although the rest of his game is good.

We also have to keep up the intensity and cohesion of the press, as we defend as a team (it's never just about the back 4) and that's where it all starts. Perhaps be a bit smarter as with an xGA as low as ours, I'm sure we can manage a few more tactical fouls to stop a counter, even if it costs us a yellow card. City and Arsenal are excellent at tactical fouls.

 

[kitchen]

The godfather of the high press, Arrigo Sacchi, couldn't sustain it with possibly the greatest club side of all time, the players eventually rebelled.

A high press system starts by being reliant on controlling possession. You keep the ball as much as possible so that the opposition are the ones doing the running. Our average of 62% is the 2nd best in the league. If you have the ball enough, you cannot blame the players for not having energy to press when we lose it.

https://www.squawka.com/en/features/premier-league-hardest-working-players-teams-distance-sprints/#:~:text=We've%20delved%20into%20the%20stats%20to%20see%20who%20were%20the

However, our distance covered stats from last season are also only 7th, so clearly we can improve on effort. What I see is perhaps a lack of ability to change tempo like City do. We're very gung-ho which is a joy to watch, but perhaps patience is required a bit more and then accelerate the passing to catch the opponents off guard and score.

 

[worcestersauce]

Upon reflection Brighton in the second half did to us what nobody else has done yet this season which was to come at us, run at us and press us.
This time last season we were playing through the press, beating it and breaking forward but yesterday we seem to have forgotten how to do that, to do it you need confidence and to keep your nerve and that's what went AWOL yesterday.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Is it just a matter of time till Archie Gray starts in that midfield. Bentancur is not defensive at all , Bissouma playing well is ideal but is not reliable .
Romeros head is in Madrid . Reminds me of the time before the World Cup when his head was somewhere else .

 

[Ledley's Right Foot]

Over the last three weeks the following players played more minutes at high intensity than desirable: Solanke, Porro, Udogie, Van der Ven, Johnson.

Our intense press didn't function right yesterday and all the other problems flowed from that. You could see from around 35 minutes the intensity dropped. half the out field players couldn't do what they normally would by 5-10%. Brighton didn't have that problem and as the game wore on, the effect was more pronounced.

No back up right winger, not using spence in Europe and the lack of a left back/centre back cover is at the root of this (as well as Richie being injured, and not trying Bergvall at right wing).

It's a squad issue and, to a lesser extent, it needed adapting to in game - the high pressing, intense play style needs to shift when the players can't do it right.

A transfer window will fix one issue, the other just requires the coaching team (not just Ange) to wake up a little and be ready to adapt during the game. Thursday-sunday turnarounds are known to be tough - and we drunk from the well once too often this week.

I didn't like the blame being placed on player attitude, that's a dangerous game.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

A mental collapse, which is what it was, is on the players, and is not the fault of the system.

Intensity is down to the players, the manager cannot do it for them, even though he demands it and it is integral to the way we play. We lost the intensity in the second half, then a collective mental collapse occurred once they scored, with sloppy passing, less effective and less coherent pressing, and mistakes started creeping in.

It is the fault of the system. 15W 15L 5D in the last 35 games isn't down to the players mentality.

 

[alfiemacdaddy]

Had a lovely 5 minutes when I woke up before the memory of yesterdays game smashed into my mind like a lorry load of manure

 

[UbeAstard]

C’mon. This game management tack doesnt fit with what I’m seeing. What would you have done?

We got away with it against Qarabag when we were 2-0 up and the fullbacks were still pushing on. Could have been all so different if Qaragag could finish on the night.
You asked what would I do different? I would be saying stay as a fullback for 10 minutes and see if we can get control back by keeping the ball, take the sting out of the opposition. Maybe if Udogie had to focus on that as his primary role for a while instead of pushing on he would have more legs to defend better.

​

 

[UbeAstard]

While that is a positive, it’s also not the first time we have failed to take our opportunities and it’s come back to bite us. The way we play relies on us being clinical, if we don’t (or can’t) improve on this then these sort of results will happen more often than they should. 3 times already this season we should of been out of sight at half time only to end up with a total of 1 point from those games - and we are only 7 games in. This isn’t a dig at Ange, it’s a dig at the wasteful tossers who continually bodge excellent opportunities

If we are not clinical enough (which we aren't) then cant 'This is the way we play' be questioned? Hoping that rinse and repeat gets us better at it when some of the personnel isn't going to get us there is going to end in regular frustration.

 

[gerishep]

A mental collapse, which is what it was, is on the players, and is not the fault of the system.

Intensity is down to the players, the manager cannot do it for them, even though he demands it and it is integral to the way we play. We lost the intensity in the second half, then a collective mental collapse occurred once they scored, with sloppy passing, less effective and less coherent pressing, and mistakes started creeping in.

I probably didn't explain clearly. My point is that we are built to attack, attack and attack some more, our defence is basically built on beating the attacker to the ball and bear in mind there is little defending from our midfield to defend the defence. Then as to a man, we seem unable to compute what's happening, then we let goals in. To me, this is the way we play and to expect plenty more of it, I do agree with you that the players' mentality is not helping, but arguably they are programmed to go forward only.

 

[Led Revolver]

Our last 4 games prior to international breaks..

Wolves (A), lost 2-1
Fulham (A), lost 3-0
Newcastle (A), lost 2-1
Brighton (A), lost 3-2

I recognise a pattern here.. are you slightly preoccupied. It suggests so..

 

[Cavehillspur]

Our last 4 games prior to international breaks..

Wolves (A), lost 2-1
Fulham (A), lost 3-0
Newcastle (A), lost 2-1
Brighton (A), lost 3-2

I recognise a pattern here.. are you slightly preoccupied. It suggests so..

Hmmm, very interesting...

 

[Led Revolver]

Hmmm, very interesting...

Isn’t it just! Suggests that the attitude is that they have somewhere more important to be..

 

[kitchen]

It is the fault of the system. 15W 15L 5D in the last 35 games isn't down to the players mentality.

That's not just yesterday's game though is it? We've not perfected the system. It's only this season that we've even found our likely best lineup and put kulu in the middle where he's been immense. It's still work in progress.

It looked in the last 3 games until the 2nd half yesterday that we'd started to find our way with the system and the requisite level of intensity and mentality was there. But then it wasn't and the system failed because the players didn't deliver what it needs.

If you don't want to be patient then fine, blame the manager and the system, but then we'll be back to swapping managers every 6 months, which also got us nowhere.

If Arsenal had sacked arteta in his 2nd season when they were similarly performing below expectations, they'd currently be a lot worse than they are....

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

Our last 4 games prior to international breaks..

Wolves (A), lost 2-1
Fulham (A), lost 3-0
Newcastle (A), lost 2-1
Brighton (A), lost 3-2

I recognise a pattern here.. are you slightly preoccupied. It suggests so..

We're Ipswich (H) ahead of the next IB.

Surely...

 

[jpascavitz]

Our last 4 games prior to international breaks..

Wolves (A), lost 2-1
Fulham (A), lost 3-0
Newcastle (A), lost 2-1
Brighton (A), lost 3-2

I recognise a pattern here.. are you slightly preoccupied. It suggests so..

I've thought this too. It's hard not to think of some in the side that have international commitments thinking their job is done when we are 2-0 at half.

I honestly thought we played so well in the first half. We could have easily had 2-3 more goals and that is not an exaggeration. We broke through them with ease.

While I get the system is a lot of work and effort needed from the players, I get frustrated with the mental collapse because isn't this the way the players in the side WANT to play? I totally get it if you're in a Conte-type system, chasing, not getting the ball, and not given any freedom to be creative. I think of Kulusevski's comments after Conte left. So now you have a guy coming in that wants you to take risks, wants you to keep going, and wants to score as many goals as humanly possible in 90 minutes. Yet, we still get these sorts of displays...

 

[14/04/91]

Our last 4 games prior to international breaks..

Wolves (A), lost 2-1
Fulham (A), lost 3-0
Newcastle (A), lost 2-1
Brighton (A), lost 3-2

I recognise a pattern here.. are you slightly preoccupied. It suggests so..

If they were the only losses I’d suggest there is a pattern. But there are plenty (15 in last 35) of other losses to factor in too.
Pattern is we’re losing far too many games!