Benfica Vs Tottenham: Match Thread

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THFC 1882

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So close we came tonight, the lads put on a decent show

its a pitty that Sandro lost hes head in the end
 

Lilbaz

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http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_van_Gaal#AZ_.282005.E2.80.932009.29

What is it about this guy exactly that makes him this Messiah everyone perceives him to be? Look at his record.

He managed Barcelona in the late 90s and won stuff but fought with everyone. He failed to qualify with the dutch national team for the 2002 World Cup behind Ireland and Portugal. He then took Barcelona to within in 3 points of the relegation zone and left. He then joined Ajax and quit after internal conflicts. He joined a mid table dutch side AZ and won one trophy in 4 years. He took over Bayern Munich and after a slow start won the double in the first year. He was then sacked after another slow start in the second year. He is now the dutch national team manager.

Seriously wtf has this 62 year old guy done in the last 15 years to show that he can change the culture of a club from top to bottom. His career has been filled with internal conflicts, slow starts and a lack of results. We seem to be star struck because of his exotic name and his "I don't take crap from anyone" demeanor which doesn't seem to have worked anywhere. And now we want him to come to a new league which is the toughest in the world and to a club trying to breach the top 4? Sounds like a typical Spurs fuck up waiting to happen. Fuck him.

Back a young tough passionate coach like Tim any day of the week.
He's won leagues in 3 different countries. He won the league with AZ against teams that had much bigger revenues. He also won the champions league with Ajax against teams with much better resources. Why do we want the guy? To win trophies.
I hate all the stick that Tim gets, I don't think it's deserved and tbh it disgusts me. But Van Gaal is a great manager, that might be the difference for us. If we have an opportunity to upgrade, whatever position then we should.
 

rupsmith

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He's won leagues in 3 different countries. He won the league with AZ against teams that had much bigger revenues. He also won the champions league with Ajax against teams with much better resources. Why do we want the guy? To win trophies.
I hate all the stick that Tim gets, I don't think it's deserved and tbh it disgusts me. But Van Gaal is a great manager, that might be the difference for us. If we have an opportunity to upgrade, whatever position then we should.
He won the champions league with Ajax 20 years ago!! In 1995! As for the titles in three leagues - one was dutch with AZ in his fourth year (Steve mclaren won it with twente in his third year to put that league into context), the German one was with bayern Munich and that too after recruiting robben and having half the German national side at his disposal and la liga was in the late 90s. This guy is a spent force. He is living off past glories.

In simple terms he has won 1 dutch title, 1 German title and 1 German cup in the last 15 years of his career! He is anything but an upgrade.

I seriously do not know how he is going to improve us without spending loads of money. Can't see Levy giving him as much freedom as he tends to want. Tim is the future for me. The signs are positive. If we are going to recruit someone, it has to be someone with premier league experience and success. I can't see anyone out there. The top 4 managers are booked. We are 5th. I don't want anyone below us. Harry maybe ? I don't know. But not Van Gaal
 
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Lilbaz

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He won the champions league with Ajax 20 years ago!! In 1995! As for the titles in three leagues - one was dutch with AZ in his fourth year (Steve mclaren won it with twente in his first year to put that league into context), the German one was with bayern Munich and that too after recruiting robben and having half the German national side at his disposal and la liga was in the late 90s. This guy is a spent force. He is living off past glories.

In simple terms he has won 1 dutch title, 1 German title and 1 German cup in the last 15 years of his career! He is anything but an upgrade.

I seriously do not know how he is going to improve us without spending loads of money. Can't see Levy giving him as much freedom as he tends to want. Tim is the future for me. The signs are positive. If we are going to recruit someone, it has to be someone with premier league experience and success. I can't see anyone out there. The top 4 managers are booked. We are 5th. I don't want anyone below us. Harry maybe ? I don't know. But not Van Gaal
I don't think you realise how funny you are.
 

spurs9

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http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_van_Gaal#AZ_.282005.E2.80.932009.29

What is it about this guy exactly that makes him this Messiah everyone perceives him to be? Look at his record.

He managed Barcelona in the late 90s and won stuff but fought with everyone. He failed to qualify with the dutch national team for the 2002 World Cup behind Ireland and Portugal. He then took Barcelona to within in 3 points of the relegation zone and left. He then joined Ajax and quit after internal conflicts. He joined a mid table dutch side AZ and won one trophy in 4 years. He took over Bayern Munich and after a slow start won the double in the first year. He was then sacked after another slow start in the second year. He is now the dutch national team manager.

Seriously wtf has this 62 year old guy done in the last 15 years to show that he can change the culture of a club from top to bottom. His career has been filled with internal conflicts, slow starts and a lack of results. We seem to be star struck because of his exotic name and his "I don't take crap from anyone" demeanor which doesn't seem to have worked anywhere. And now we want him to come to a new league which is the toughest in the world and to a club trying to breach the top 4? Sounds like a typical Spurs fuck up waiting to happen. Fuck him.

Back a young tough passionate coach like Tim any day of the week.
Some managers are made for international football and not club, some club but not int and some both. LVG, IMO, is in the made foe club not int football category.

To his club records:

Ajax - With a very young team, he won the CL & got to the final of the next years only to loose on pens, then, due to the bosman ruling, lost key players, otherwise many people think he would have won more CL's with them.

Barcelona - Won 2 league title's in 3 years after Barcelona had finished 4th, 3rd & 2nd the three season's prior. His last season he finished 2nd but the next 4 seasons 4th, 4th, 6th and 2nd, so his Barca league wins weren't as easy in that period. He quit, due to disputes with the press and egotistical players not wanting to implement his system.

His Return to Ajax was as a technical director not manager and the "internal conflict" was just with Johan Cruyff, who he has a long standing feud with (it's not clear why they hate each other). It didn't help that the board hired LVG behind Cryuff's back.

Second stint at Barca - he had a mare, no excuse of it.

AZ - Won the title for the 2nd time in the club's history.

Bayern Munich - Won the League and cup double, got to the final of the champions league and got manager of the year.

Why do we want him:

Promotes youth players
Plays attractive attacking football
Is a winner (wont league titles in 3 major league's has won the champions league)
Works with and improves the players he has rather than buying

Who has that kind of winning pedigree that we could realistically get?
 

Gaz_Gammon

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Wouldn't call it fantastic by any means. First few games in charge we saw a bit of fight but its been much the same as AVB's tenure - lots of possession, no creativity and capitulation.

I cant see him being in charge come next season and to be honest, I wouldn't want him to be. We need stability and experience in the dressing room and he offers neither.


So fire him just to give us more "stability". Yup, good thought process that.

I don't know what you expect in a manager that may or may not come into Spurs at some point in the future but if your going to judge him after half a season then we will never have any sort of stability that you so crave.
 

JamieDaCosta

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It was to be fair. We was singing away in Rosio square from 11am this morning.

I know we didn't have our strongest team tonight but i still expected a few more efforts on goal.
Im glad you had a good time mate, I thought we actually played quite well tonight especially considering but yeah, we didn't actually create enough chances in the first 75 minutes, granted
 

Gaz_Gammon

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i can see high morale with players, but i cant see any game plan or shape whatsoever

Tell me a "game plan" you want to see. Any game plan.

But please consider that half the side are in the casualty department (as key players have been for most of the season), and the current Manager has had to pick up a squad and make an effort to put a team together in just half a season.

Oh' and then name a replacement manager who would have a "game plan" in place and working like a well oiled machine given the same circumstances. There appears to be a huge disconnect on what some people realistically expect from a football manager after less than two dozen games, let alone a couple of seasons.
 
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rupsmith

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I don't think you realise how funny you are.
I really don't. But I have to say that your pathetic attempt to couch your ignorance and your lack of analysis with this supercilious throw away line is even more hilarious. Tim stays , Van Gaal can retire in Portugal
 

WalkerboyUK

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Tell me a "game plan" you want to see. Any game plan.

But please consider that half the side are in the casualty department (as key players have been for most of the season), and the current Manager has had to pick up a squad and make an effort to put a team together in just half a season.

Oh' and then name a replacement manager who would have a "game plan" in place and working like a well oiled machine given the same circumstances. There appears to be a huge disconnect on what some people realistically expect from a football manager after less than two dozen games, let alone a couple of seasons.

Also it's a bit difficult to have a rigid game plan etc. if you're constantly losing players through injury & suspension!
 

rupsmith

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Some managers are made for international football and not club, some club but not int and some both. LVG, IMO, is in the made foe club not int football category.

To his club records:

Ajax - With a very young team, he won the CL & got to the final of the next years only to loose on pens, then, due to the bosman ruling, lost key players, otherwise many people think he would have won more CL's with them.

Barcelona - Won 2 league title's in 3 years after Barcelona had finished 4th, 3rd & 2nd the three season's prior. His last season he finished 2nd but the next 4 seasons 4th, 4th, 6th and 2nd, so his Barca league wins weren't as easy in that period. He quit, due to disputes with the press and egotistical players not wanting to implement his system.

His Return to Ajax was as a technical director not manager and the "internal conflict" was just with Johan Cruyff, who he has a long standing feud with (it's not clear why they hate each other). It didn't help that the board hired LVG behind Cryuff's back.

Second stint at Barca - he had a mare, no excuse of it.

AZ - Won the title for the 2nd time in the club's history.

Bayern Munich - Won the League and cup double, got to the final of the champions league and got manager of the year.

Why do we want him:

Promotes youth players
Plays attractive attacking football
Is a winner (wont league titles in 3 major league's has won the champions league)
Works with and improves the players he has rather than buying

Who has that kind of winning pedigree that we could realistically get?
In response to your comments.

His records with Ajax and Barcelona were 15-20 years ago. Yes 15-20 years ago. The footballing world has changed dramatically since then in terms of players power, club governance structures and scouting networks.

Since then he has won three trophies (i.e. 3 trophies in the last 15 years.). One Dutch title (Steve Mclaren won a title for Twente for the 1st time in that clubs history). With Bayern he won the double but it helps when you have the one of the best run clubs in the world providing you the funds to buy Robben and giving you half the German national team to work with.

In terms of why you said we want him

Promotes youth players - exactly what Tim has done much to the chagrin of everyone on this portal.
Plays attractive attacking football - exactly what Tim has done
Is a winner (wont league titles in 3 major league's has won the champions league) - So is Tim. He was winning the premier league as captain of his team around the same time.
Works with and improves the players he has rather than buying - What Tim seems to be doing. And not exactly what Van Gaal did at Bayern.
 
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spurs9

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His last Champions league final was just 4 years ago.

His only notable failure in a domestic league (ever) was his 2nd stint at Barcelona.

You're right football has changed in 20-15 years and LVG has changed with it.

If it is do easy to win the league with Bayern, then why didn't they win the year before and year after he took he was in charge?

Only 3 trophy's in last 15 years, remind me how many we have won in that time?

I can't believe you just compared LVG to Sherwood. WTF???

Promotes youth players - exactly what Tim has done much to the chagrin of everyone on this portal. Fair enough he has so far.
Plays attractive attacking football - exactly what Tim has done. Do you really call the football we have played under Tim attractive???
Is a winner (wont league titles in 3 major league's has won the champions league) - So is Tim. He was winning the premier league as captain of his team around the same time. As a player. That has fuck all to do with winning trophy's as a manger and even then he has 1 premier league trophy and 1 1st division trophy. Steve Bruce has won more as a player and I wouldn't want him as manager.
Works with and improves the players he has rather than buying - What Tim seems to be doing. And not exactly what Van Gaal did at Bayern. Exactly what he did at Bayern. Robben best 2 goal scoring seasons under LVG, Gomez best season under LVG, Schweinsteiger was a not so great winger and LVG turned him into an amazing MC.
 

jezz

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So fire him just to give us more "stability". Yup, good thought process that.

I don't know what you expect in a manager that may or may not come into Spurs at some point in the future but if your going to judge him after half a season then we will never have any sort of stability that you so crave.
You were very vocal in contempt for AVB and we should fire him half way through a season, so much for stability eh?

Tell me a "game plan" you want to see. Any game plan.

But please consider that half the side are in the casualty department (as key players have been for most of the season), and the current Manager has had to pick up a squad and make an effort to put a team together in just half a season.

Oh' and then name a replacement manager who would have a "game plan" in place and working like a well oiled machine given the same circumstances. There appears to be a huge disconnect on what some people realistically expect from a football manager after less than two dozen games, let alone a couple of seasons.
The bold bit, why loan out Holtby if injuries are that bad?
Chadli nearly got loaned as well.
So that makes Tim look a little silly considering our injuries.
Game plan i hear you say.
Playing Lennon nearly every game, however he performs is hardly helping his game plan.
You can add Bentileb to that aswell, not matter how he plays he is never subbed.
Dropping Eriksen for no good reason (norwich)?
Saying our best players arent his cup of tea, So you would rather Lennon and Townsend tearing up the wings?
If he wants to stay, he needs to be a no2 a learn his trade from someone with experience.
Not mouth off in public, do it behind closed doors if your not happy with certain individuals.
 

rupsmith

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His last Champions league final was just 4 years ago.

His only notable failure in a domestic league (ever) was his 2nd stint at Barcelona.

You're right football has changed in 20-15 years and LVG has changed with it.

If it is do easy to win the league with Bayern, then why didn't they win the year before and year after he took he was in charge?

Only 3 trophy's in last 15 years, remind me how many we have won in that time?

I can't believe you just compared LVG to Sherwood. WTF???

Promotes youth players - exactly what Tim has done much to the chagrin of everyone on this portal. Fair enough he has so far.
Plays attractive attacking football - exactly what Tim has done. Do you really call the football we have played under Tim attractive???
Is a winner (wont league titles in 3 major league's has won the champions league) - So is Tim. He was winning the premier league as captain of his team around the same time. As a player. That has fuck all to do with winning trophy's as a manger and even then he has 1 premier league trophy and 1 1st division trophy. Steve Bruce has won more as a player and I wouldn't want him as manager.
Works with and improves the players he has rather than buying - What Tim seems to be doing. And not exactly what Van Gaal did at Bayern. Exactly what he did at Bayern. Robben best 2 goal scoring seasons under LVG, Gomez best season under LVG, Schweinsteiger was a not so great winger and LVG turned him into an amazing MC.
Look mate, I 'm not really disputing what you are saying. LVG is obviously a well respected coach. But hear me out - I posted the following on some other topics.

In terms of not being sold on Tim - my point is, if the base is sound and seems to work (i.e. results have been ok) with everyone (i.e. fans wanting a more attacking style, the chairman, the players etc.) seeming to be happy and wanting to pull in the same direction, who is the person who is specifically going to improve on that? I mean WHO IS HE AND WHY?

We have gone for the exotic names and been burnt pretty badly in the past - Santini, Ramos, AVB. All because of what they have done in different countries in different circumstances. Look at whats happening on the ground and how people are responding. Jol was ok because he understood how things worked. Harry got us into the top 4 twice.

AVB had a full season to understand the club and he had Gareth Bale. We finished fifth primarily because Bale carried us. He had all the new players (the purchase of whom he presumably sanctioned) for a full pre season but by December it was clear that he was not the person to take us forward. And I'm not talking about some vague concept of non adherence to the attacking Tottenham way. But his obvious lack of man management ability and his lack of tactical flexibility when playing in a league and with players who were clearly not suited to his tactical set up. Levy did the right thing by sacking him.

Levy then brings Tim in because he trusts him and Levy clearly knows him after being around the club for so long (well done Harry for bringing Tim in). With a bunch of players he barely knows, Tim then identifies over THREE months what needs to be done to take things forward. He has clearly laid down the law and the players seem to be responding to that. The performance yesterday shows that we are moving in the right direction.

If people think that if Van Gaal had been in Tim's shoes we would have been fighting for the title by now they are truely deluded and have never played football or managed a bunch of people before.

All the foreign managers were given time. Why not Tim? Why does he have to be judged more harshly than them?

I say give at least Tim 18 months. WHAT SPECIFICALLY IS LVG GOING TO DO THAT WILL MAKE US A BETTER TEAM? We cannot take risks based on his past achievements. He is not Mourinho. He is not SAF. He is not even Ancelotti. 3 trophies in 15 year - that is simply not good enough. And by your logic on what trophies have we won in the last 15 years - why don't we hire Mclaren then? Or ask AVB to come back.

Going by how we have done things in the past, we will hire the likes of Diego Simeone. And we all get excited because of his "European" philosophy, his style of play and his cool name. And then he takes us to Upton Park and realises that there is no Almeira in the Premier League. He gets sacked in 24 months and everyone gets upset with Dan Levy.

Keep Tim - there is no one else and he's doing a more than decent job so far.
 

jezz

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Look mate, I 'm not really disputing what you are saying. LVG is obviously a well respected coach. But hear me out - I posted the following on some other topics.

In terms of not being sold on Tim - my point is, if the base is sound and seems to work (i.e. results have been ok) with everyone (i.e. fans wanting a more attacking style, the chairman, the players etc.) seeming to be happy and wanting to pull in the same direction, who is the person who is specifically going to improve on that? I mean WHO IS HE AND WHY?

We have gone for the exotic names and been burnt pretty badly in the past - Santini, Ramos, AVB. All because of what they have done in different countries in different circumstances. Look at whats happening on the ground and how people are responding. Jol was ok because he understood how things worked. Harry got us into the top 4 twice.

AVB had a full season to understand the club and he had Gareth Bale. We finished fifth primarily because Bale carried us. He had all the new players (the purchase of whom he presumably sanctioned) for a full pre season but by December it was clear that he was not the person to take us forward. And I'm not talking about some vague concept of non adherence to the attacking Tottenham way. But his obvious lack of man management ability and his lack of tactical flexibility when playing in a league and with players who were clearly not suited to his tactical set up. Levy did the right thing by sacking him.

Levy then brings Tim in because he trusts him and Levy clearly knows him after being around the club for so long (well done Harry for bringing Tim in). With a bunch of players he barely knows, Tim then identifies over THREE months what needs to be done to take things forward. He has clearly laid down the law and the players seem to be responding to that. The performance yesterday shows that we are moving in the right direction.

If people think that if Van Gaal had been in Tim's shoes we would have been fighting for the title by now they are truely deluded and have never played football or managed a bunch of people before.

All the foreign managers were given time. Why not Tim? Why does he have to be judged more harshly than them?

I say give at least Tim 18 months. WHAT SPECIFICALLY IS LVG GOING TO DO THAT WILL MAKE US A BETTER TEAM? We cannot take risks based on his past achievements. He is not Mourinho. He is not SAF. He is not even Ancelotti. 3 trophies in 15 year - that is simply not good enough. And by your logic on what trophies have we won in the last 15 years - why don't we hire Mclaren then? Or ask AVB to come back.

Going by how we have done things in the past, we will hire the likes of Diego Simeone. And we all get excited because of his "European" philosophy, his style of play and his cool name. And then he takes us to Upton Park and realises that there is no Almeira in the Premier League. He gets sacked in 24 months and everyone gets upset with Dan Levy.

Keep Tim - there is no one else and he's doing a more than decent job so far.
Barcelona players credit there current footballing Ethos to LVG.
Tim got the job because nobody else would do it at the time, expect for Hoddle.
We approached LVG and he said after the world cup.
Tims not doing that good, sorry he continually baffles me with his selections and subs, as did AVB.
Hes talking about ditching some of our better players, no thanks we have a very good squad capable of 4 and higher,(left back being an issue).
Im not seeing what your seeing.
Saying 3 trophies in 15 years is a bit misleading.
Barcelona, Ajax, Bayern do you think there footballing ethos is any good?
I do and hope he brings that here.
Tim can join the ride, learn from it and take us on when LVG departs for Portugal or he can watch from the outside and regret his mistake later in life.
LVG is a proven winner with a football ethos that most fans want, me being one of them.
 

SteveH

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He's won leagues in 3 different countries. He won the league with AZ against teams that had much bigger revenues. He also won the champions league with Ajax against teams with much better resources. Why do we want the guy? To win trophies.
I hate all the stick that Tim gets, I don't think it's deserved and tbh it disgusts me. But Van Gaal is a great manager, that might be the difference for us. If we have an opportunity to upgrade, whatever position then we should.
I agree with most of this and especially Tim poor treatment by some - but there is still something about Tim I like. Maybe its the lack of spin and his seeming absence of duplicity in what he says, can't put my finger on it.

I thought he got the team playing well considering.
 
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