Match Threads Aston Villa vs Spurs - Match Thread

[ConfusedOnlooker]

Aston Villa owners buy out Tony Xia in debt financing play - SportsPro

Edens and Sawiris pay UK£30m promotion clause payment to up stake. [...]Read More...

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Yeah but they weren't the complete owners. The power shifted last summer when Tony Xia was bought out which led to Grealish signing a new contract.

Grealish signed his contract in 2018

 

[Trix]

That certainly didn't help but personally I think it is more down to his decisions he made the past two season where he regulary misjudged these moments. He feels super comfortable on the line, and only there...

Then on those situations you stay there. It's more of an issue to move off the line and then change your mind. It must be incredibly distracting for the defensive line to see him do what he did yesterday. That split second of indecision could well be the difference in Toby clearing that or doing what he did. I mean we're talking a matter of inches here and he makes a better contact and puts that over the bar.

 

[IamSpurtacus]

I know I don't want less possession and less passes than Villa. That's embarrassing!

Those stats are almost worthless - look at expected goals (amongst others) which is a better measure of balance of play, how effective a team is at getting into goal scoring positions, and how efficient they are at converting those opportunities

Yesterday the Xg was 1.68 Villa vs 3.72 Spurs - ie. we created twice as many goal scoring opportunities, despite fewer passes and possession. We had less of the ball, but were more effective with the possession we had

Oh, and we scored more goals...can't beat that stat

 

[spud]

There have been numerous posts about the importance of our (lack of) possession against Villa and also about how unimportant it is. We also have posts about other statistical information and how that is more important than the proportion of the game that you have the ball. There are points to be made for or against all of these, which the trump card being 'we won', 'we got three points'.

What all of these don't address - at least not when considered individually - is the control of the game. I would rather that we had 70% of possession and created twenty chances to the opposition's none, but not simply because they are nice stats. Controlling the game is the important thing. You can have the ball 20% of the time but if the opposition spends its time playing it square and creating nothing that's fine.

The worrying thing for me is that, with the exception of the Burnley 5-0, I can't remember a single game under Mourinho where we have been in control. There have been passages of good play but I've never been able to relax during a game and think 'we've got this'. As long as that persists, any game will be a lottery. We will beat better teams (City for example) and lose to worse ones, and be relying on luck - such as Engels' last-minute fuck-up on sunday - for points.

The players that we have should be able to control games. We might have to wait for a Mourinho pre-season before we get it, but until we do we shouldn't be surprised when we lose or draw with Southampton or draw at Norwich; or rely on a huge slice of luck to win at Villa.

That is what isn't good enough.

 

[Shadydan]

There have been numerous posts about the importance of our (lack of) possession against Villa and also about how unimportant it is. We also have posts about other statistical information and how that is more important than the proportion of the game that you have the ball. There are points to be made for or against all of these, which the trump card being 'we won', 'we got three points'.

What all of these don't address - at least not when considered individually - is the control of the game. I would rather that we had 70% of possession and created twenty chances to the opposition's none, but not simply because they are nice stats. Controlling the game is the important thing. You can have the ball 20% of the time but if the opposition spends its time playing it square and creating nothing that's fine.

The worrying thing for me is that, with the exception of the Burnley 5-0, I can't remember a single game under Mourinho where we have been in control. There have been passages of good play but I've never been able to relax during a game and think 'we've got this'. As long as that persists, any game will be a lottery. We will beat better teams (City for example) and lose to worse ones, and be relying on luck - such as Engels' last-minute fuck-up on sunday - for points.

The players that we have should be able to control games. We might have to wait for a Mourinho pre-season before we get it, but until we do we shouldn't be surprised when we lose or draw with Southampton or draw at Norwich; or rely on a huge slice of luck to win at Villa.

That is what isn't good enough.

Jose isn't here to please people and play tippy tappy football for the moment, he's here to do a job and that's to get in the top four by hook or by crook and we're well on target to do that, we shouldn't be worrying about style of play we should be more focused on the results. Let's get to a summer window and a pre season then by this time next year if we haven't improved stylistically then we can have this conversation.

 

[Ronwol196061]

I expect more from Dele. I expected more from Moura..
What is Deles role under Jose.

Then on those situations you stay there. It's more of an issue to move off the line and then change your mind. It must be incredibly distracting for the defensive line to see him do what he did yesterday. That split second of indecision could well be the difference in Toby clearing that or doing what he did. I mean we're talking a matter of inches here and he makes a better contact and puts that over the bar.

I agree and it may well be that by instinct he came out then trusted Toby.But Toby didnt sleep because of the baby.Maybe it was all those factors including misjudgement by Lloris. Still between them it was messed up. Almost a perfect storm.

 

[Dannyspur]

I do wonder if Lloris' hesitancy is down to the arm break he had? That would knock anyone's confidence and decision making.

He has gone from Sweeper Keeper to Sleeper Keeper.


He should have been out to gather the cross before Toby could get anywhere near it. And he should be punching the cross for their second. I think he has made so many cock-ups when coming out that he is scared of another so is hesitant which puts the defence on edge.

 

[Tit&Ham]

It looked to me like they were trying to get the ball up the pitch quickly so we could use the pace of 3 of the league's fastest players to catch the opposition defence off guard in order to create goalscoring chances.

Which we did, 6 or 7 times, including the won penalty and the match winning goal. Were it not for profligacy, we would've been 2 or 3 goals up after 60 mins and in complete control.

Completely agree and I enjoy this style. What bothers me is our inability to clear the ball to fellow Spurs players.

Read a statistic that Liverpool are more likely to score when having corner against than the team having the corner.

They are fantastic at clearing the ball with precision, and something er should som for as well.

 

[dontcallme]

There have been numerous posts about the importance of our (lack of) possession against Villa and also about how unimportant it is. We also have posts about other statistical information and how that is more important than the proportion of the game that you have the ball. There are points to be made for or against all of these, which the trump card being 'we won', 'we got three points'.

What all of these don't address - at least not when considered individually - is the control of the game. I would rather that we had 70% of possession and created twenty chances to the opposition's none, but not simply because they are nice stats. Controlling the game is the important thing. You can have the ball 20% of the time but if the opposition spends its time playing it square and creating nothing that's fine.

The worrying thing for me is that, with the exception of the Burnley 5-0, I can't remember a single game under Mourinho where we have been in control. There have been passages of good play but I've never been able to relax during a game and think 'we've got this'. As long as that persists, any game will be a lottery. We will beat better teams (City for example) and lose to worse ones, and be relying on luck - such as Engels' last-minute fuck-up on sunday - for points.

The players that we have should be able to control games. We might have to wait for a Mourinho pre-season before we get it, but until we do we shouldn't be surprised when we lose or draw with Southampton or draw at Norwich; or rely on a huge slice of luck to win at Villa.

That is what isn't good enough.

I see where you're coming from but we have to see what we have in our team at the moment. Kane is injured. We have no other players in the final third who will hold onto the ball. Son and Moura are always looking to turn and shoot or run at defenders. Alli is always looking for a killer pass.

So as soon as it is in the final third we are going to give up posession.

In midfield we preferably play Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele. Winks and Lo Celso are passing and moving well together and play best when at intensity rather than slowing the game down and dictating the tempo.

That lineup has worked better than when we have played Dier and Sissoko.

If you look at the chances created most games we have deserved to win. We had numerous chances to finish Villa off, scoring late wasn't luck. Our lack of being clinical was our problem.

Jose needs at least one more transfer window, the return of Kane and a bit more time to integrate the 5 players we have made this season before he can get us playing a more controlled game.

Our results have improved dramatically through the gung ho style compared to Poch's higher possession game. Why go back to that?

 

[idontgetit]

Alderweireld's goal was banging

 

[pedrodelawasp]

Alderweireld's goal was banging

Stick him up top!

 

[DCSPUR64]

I see where you're coming from but we have to see what we have in our team at the moment. Kane is injured. We have no other players in the final third who will hold onto the ball. Son and Moura are always looking to turn and shoot or run at defenders. Alli is always looking for a killer pass.

So as soon as it is in the final third we are going to give up posession.

In midfield we preferably play Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele. Winks and Lo Celso are passing and moving well together and play best when at intensity rather than slowing the game down and dictating the tempo.

That lineup has worked better than when we have played Dier and Sissoko.

If you look at the chances created most games we have deserved to win. We had numerous chances to finish Villa off, scoring late wasn't luck. Our lack of being clinical was our problem.

Jose needs at least one more transfer window, the return of Kane and a bit more time to integrate the 5 players we have made this season before he can get us playing a more controlled game.

Our results have improved dramatically through the gung ho style compared to Poch's higher possession game. Why go back to that?

Good post.
When we had Dembele, we rarely gave up possession in our half, yesterday, numerous times we did, I think Tanguy and Winks would help, as Dier and sometimes Aurier are a disaster in the waiting. Sanchez also has been guilty, however yesterday, he was much improved.

 

[UbeAstard]

Jose isn't here to please people and play tippy tappy football for the moment, he's here to do a job and that's to get in the top four by hook or by crook and we're well on target to do that, we shouldn't be worrying about style of play we should be more focused on the results. Let's get to a summer window and a pre season then by this time next year if we haven't improved stylistically then we can have this conversation.

However I also agree with Spud, no-one is able to have a conviction about the predicting any results whoever we play (it is the blight of most teams below Leicester at the moment). It hasn't always been this way and this is even allowing for the historical slip ups against teams like Newcastle, Stoke, WBA etc.

 

[spursville]

For the time being, I think his plan is pretty clear: to scratch his way to the end of the season, using his experience and pragmatism to get us into a Champions League qualifying position somehow, then to use the summer to continue the renovation of the squad, formulate a way of playing that suits his mainly-inherited players and instill his tactical plan into the team, ready to start next season in a less haphazard manner.

This is what happens when you take over someone's squad in mid-season. If you're flexible and can improvise, you make it work somehow, until you have time to recast things in your own preferred style.

A caretaker manager could 'scratch' their way. Having less possession than the likes of Southampton and having no sense of control against 'weaker' teams and no periods of control against stronger teams is simpy not good enough.

 

[Shadydan]

A caretaker manager could 'scratch' their way. Having less possession than the likes of Southampton and having no sense of control against 'weaker' teams and no periods of control against stronger teams is simpy not good enough.

It's good enough in we win and it's for the short term.

 

[spursville]

It's good enough in we win and it's for the short term.

If we win? The point is we don't know if or when we'll win. We can't predict which games we'll dominate / control (as we could under Poch) and which games will be really challenging as we can't control anything. You could probably argue that many of the games we've won under Mourinho we didn't control and didn't necessarily deservne to win.

 

[Shadydan]

If we win? The point is we don't know if or when we'll win. We can't predict which games we'll dominate / control (as we could under Poch) and which games will be really challenging as we can't control anything. You could probably argue that many of the games we've won under Mourinho we didn't control and didn't necessarily deservne to win.

Check Mourinho's record since he's been appointed...what does that suggest to you...?

 

[spursville]

Check Mourinho's record since he's been appointed...what does that suggest to you...?

That he's squeezed some points out of the team and been lucky compared to the team's dismal showing in the final months under Poch. That we can't keep clean sheets? Deep down you know that under most of Poch's we'd go into matches with a plan and often there would be control. Nevermind against hte top six, we don't look on control against anybody/ What is the plan.

 

[Shadydan]

That he's squeezed some points out of the team and been lucky compared to the team's dismal showing in the final months under Poch. That we can't keep clean sheets? Deep down you know that under most of Poch's we'd go into matches with a plan and often there would be control. Nevermind against hte top six, we don't look on control against anybody/ What is the plan.

i.e we're getting wins...argue as much as you like but he is getting wins out of this team, you or I may not like the football but it is what it is...short term whilst we reboot in the summer and get some strikers on the pitch but he's trying to get us through matches and with a chance of getting top four by hook or by crook, couldn't give a fuck about control, we had 'control' in the majority of Poch's matches last year and how far did that get us?

 

[spursville]

i.e we're getting wins...argue as much as you like but he is getting wins out of this team, you or I may not like the football but it is what it is...short term whilst we reboot in the summer and get some strikers on the pitch but he's trying to get us through matches and with a chance of getting top four by hook or by crook, couldn't give a fuck about control, we had 'control' in the majority of Poch's matches last year and how far did that get us?

OK. Tell me about the green shoots. What can you see? I hope you're enjoyig the Chelsea game because I'm not. Not just because of the result but the complete lack of ideas.