Arsenal

[SUIYHA]

It's great isn't it. I just look across their team & it's full of bang average footballers. Their young English guys are average too apart from Saka:

Saka - Good young player.
Holding - Ok centre back. Not that young anymore.
Maitland-Niles - Really average, pushed to right back because he wasn't good enough in CM.
Nelson - An ok winger, that's it.
Willock - Not sure what this guy does, no pace, no strength & just a bit rubbish. Seems to be playing ACM but has nothing to offer.
Nketiah - Scored a whole 3 goals in the Championship, compare that to Abraham and the levels are staggeringly different.
Smith-Rowe - Comes with a big reputation but isn't doing much out on loan.

The thing is, if one had looked back at our youngsters in 2014 you could easily have said:

Rose - Error prone, clumsy, can't cross, relies only on pace but has nothing about him
Walker - As above
Dier - Ok centre-back but no experience of the English game
Bentaleb - Doesn't score or get assists, nothing to him
Mason - 23 years old and zero appearances at Premier League level. Never going to be a regular in a side at that level
Lamela - Showpony from Italy that's never going to be able to adapt to the pace and physicality of the Premier League
Eriksen - Talented but there's a reason why every top club in Europe turned him down
Kane - Big fat lump that failed in all of his loan spells at lower league clubs


The pessimist in me that's wished for the fall of Arsenal his whole life but seen them find ways to rebuild often on a budget means I can't help but think they could clear out some of the deadwood and bad apples within the squad, develop the young players you mentioned (plus Martinelli), alongside one or two high quality new players they could become a real force again, like we did when Poch first took over and like Chelsea are doing with Lampard now.

But for the time being - this is hilarious. We've had a pretty piss poor season but theirs has been even worse. Bottom half of the table. Goal difference of zero. 20 points less than the same stage last season. Only two wins against the top half all season, neither of which came away from home. Without Aubameyang's goals they'd have been in big trouble this season...

 

[Timberwolf]

The thing is, if one had looked back at our youngsters in 2014 you could easily have said:

Rose - Error prone, clumsy, can't cross, relies only on pace but has nothing about him
Walker - As above
Dier - Ok centre-back but no experience of the English game
Bentaleb - Doesn't score or get assists, nothing to him
Mason - 23 years old and zero appearances at Premier League level. Never going to be a regular in a side at that level
Lamela - Showpony from Italy that's never going to be able to adapt to the pace and physicality of the Premier League
Eriksen - Talented but there's a reason why every top club in Europe turned him down
Kane - Big fat lump that failed in all of his loan spells at lower league clubs


The pessimist in me that's wished for the fall of Arsenal his whole life but seen them find ways to rebuild often on a budget means I can't help but think they could clear out some of the deadwood and bad apples within the squad, develop the young players you mentioned (plus Martinelli), alongside one or two high quality new players they could become a real force again, like we did when Poch first took over and like Chelsea are doing with Lampard now.

But for the time being - this is hilarious. We've had a pretty piss poor season but theirs has been even worse. Bottom half of the table. Goal difference of zero. 20 points less than the same stage last season. Only two wins against the top half all season, neither of which came away from home. Without Aubameyang's goals they'd have been in big trouble this season...

Actually kind of crazy when you look at it like that.

I think some assessments are a bit harsh: pretty sure Walker was well established by then and an England regular and Eriksen and Lamela were both seen as fairly big coups when they signed (though both admittedly took a while to get going).

But yeah, hard to argue with most of them.

Between Kane, Poch and Alli we really did hit the footballing jackpot: a local superhero striker, a brilliant upcoming manager willing to work with Levy, and a 5 million quid midfielder who scored almost 50 league goals in 3 seasons.

Even with Arsenal's luck they'll never match that kind of turnaround.

Also worth noting we had Lloris, Vertonghen and Dembele, all of which proved to be top class and formed the spine of our side for the following 6 years. Arsenal have nothing like that.

 

[spurs9]

It's great isn't it. I just look across their team & it's full of bang average footballers. Their young English guys are average too apart from Saka:

Saka - Good young player.
Holding - Ok centre back. Not that young anymore.
Maitland-Niles - Really average, pushed to right back because he wasn't good enough in CM.
Nelson - An ok winger, that's it.
Willock - Not sure what this guy does, no pace, no strength & just a bit rubbish. Seems to be playing ACM but has nothing to offer.
Nketiah - Scored a whole 3 goals in the Championship, compare that to Abraham and the levels are staggeringly different.
Smith-Rowe - Comes with a big reputation but isn't doing much out on loan.

Saka and Nelson have the potential to be top drawer in my opinion and I wouldn't write off Smith-Rowe or Nketiah either. Arsenals problem is their Senior players are an absolute shambles at times. There isn't one of their CBs that I would even want on out bench and, on top of that, they need to bin/replace Ozil, Xhaka and Lacazette.

 

[SUIYHA]

Actually kind of crazy when you look at it like that.

I think some assessments are a bit harsh: pretty sure Walker was well established by then and an England regular and Eriksen and Lamela were both seen as fairly big coups when they signed (though both admittedly took a while to get going).

But yeah, hard to argue with most of them.

Between Kane, Poch and Alli we really did hit the footballing jackpot: a local superhero striker, a brilliant upcoming manager willing to work with Levy, and a 5 million quid midfielder who scored almost 50 league goals in 3 seasons.

Even with Arsenal's luck they'll never match that kind of turnaround.

Also worth noting we had Lloris, Vertonghen and Dembele, all of which proved to be top class and formed the spine of our side for the following 6 years. Arsenal have nothing like that.

They've hit that jackpot massively before. Signing a young Vieira as an outcast from Milan's bench, signing Anelka for about £500k as a teenager, Ljungberg coming from Sweden, converting an underperforming Juventus winger (Henry) into one of the best strikers of all time, converting a crap youth team striker (Ashley Cole) into one of the best left-backs of his generation, convincing Fabregas he needed to develop with them before he'd have a chance of breaking into the Barca team, picking up Van Persie on the cheap after Feyenoord discarded him for having a bad attitude and then doing the same with Adebayor at Monaco two years later....even some of their players like Ramsey and Flamini that they signed who were crap for the first few years suddenly turned good one day.

Difference was, as you said, once upon a time they had an experienced core of Wright, Bergkamp, Adams, Keown, Seaman etc to help establish and maintain a winning culture and set an example for the youngsters to look up to - those youngsters like Vieira and Henry then became the example to the next generation and so on. Nowadays who are the youngsters supposed to look up to and learn from? Aubameyang is the only one really - I doubt anyone looks at Ozil, Xhaka, Luiz and Mustafi in training and wishes they could be like them some day.

Edit - they might well look at Ozil's bank balance relative to how much time he actually spends on the pitch and wish they could be like him some day. But that's the kind of player that's never going to make it.

 

[ernie78]

I doubt anyone looks at Ozil,

After hearing about Guendouzi’s crass comments towards Brighton players about earnings I can imagine he looks at Ozil as someone he wants to replicate

 

[Shadydan]

The thing is, if one had looked back at our youngsters in 2014 you could easily have said:

Rose - Error prone, clumsy, can't cross, relies only on pace but has nothing about him
Walker - As above
Dier - Ok centre-back but no experience of the English game
Bentaleb - Doesn't score or get assists, nothing to him
Mason - 23 years old and zero appearances at Premier League level. Never going to be a regular in a side at that level
Lamela - Showpony from Italy that's never going to be able to adapt to the pace and physicality of the Premier League
Eriksen - Talented but there's a reason why every top club in Europe turned him down
Kane - Big fat lump that failed in all of his loan spells at lower league clubs


The pessimist in me that's wished for the fall of Arsenal his whole life but seen them find ways to rebuild often on a budget means I can't help but think they could clear out some of the deadwood and bad apples within the squad, develop the young players you mentioned (plus Martinelli), alongside one or two high quality new players they could become a real force again, like we did when Poch first took over and like Chelsea are doing with Lampard now.

But for the time being - this is hilarious. We've had a pretty piss poor season but theirs has been even worse. Bottom half of the table. Goal difference of zero. 20 points less than the same stage last season. Only two wins against the top half all season, neither of which came away from home. Without Aubameyang's goals they'd have been in big trouble this season...

Okay ask yourself this, if Poch took them over now do you think he'd turn them into title contenders in 2-3 seasons?

 

[SUIYHA]

Okay ask yourself this, if Poch took them over now do you think he'd turn them into title contenders in 2-3 seasons?

No - for the simple reason that Liverpool (and probably still City) are on a different planet right now to anything Poch had to deal with in first 2-3 years. But if they signed an "Alderweireld", a "Wanyama" and a "Son", and developed their young players properly then they could become top four regulars again for sure.

 

[Shadydan]

No - for the simple reason that Liverpool (and probably still City) are on a different planet right now to anything Poch had to deal with in first 2-3 years. But if they signed an "Alderweireld", a "Wanyama" and a "Son", and developed their young players properly then they could become top four regulars again for sure.

You make a fair point but I don't think he's turning Eddie Nketiah into a Harry Kane or a Maitland Niles into a Kyle Walker.

 

[spursfan77]

They've hit that jackpot massively before. Signing a young Vieira as an outcast from Milan's bench, signing Anelka for about £500k as a teenager, Ljungberg coming from Sweden, converting an underperforming Juventus winger (Henry) into one of the best strikers of all time, converting a crap youth team striker (Ashley Cole) into one of the best left-backs of his generation, convincing Fabregas he needed to develop with them before he'd have a chance of breaking into the Barca team, picking up Van Persie on the cheap after Feyenoord discarded him for having a bad attitude and then doing the same with Adebayor at Monaco two years later....even some of their players like Ramsey and Flamini that they signed who were crap for the first few years suddenly turned good one day.

Difference was, as you said, once upon a time they had an experienced core of Wright, Bergkamp, Adams, Keown, Seaman etc to help establish and maintain a winning culture and set an example for the youngsters to look up to - those youngsters like Vieira and Henry then became the example to the next generation and so on. Nowadays who are the youngsters supposed to look up to and learn from? Aubameyang is the only one really - I doubt anyone looks at Ozil, Xhaka, Luiz and Mustafi in training and wishes they could be like them some day.

Edit - they might well look at Ozil's bank balance relative to how much time he actually spends on the pitch and wish they could be like him some day. But that's the kind of player that's never going to make it.

Lots of your first paragraph was down to wenger and his knowledge of players plus their good scouting. All teams have that level of scouting that have arsenal an advantage then. Wenger was also lucky to inherit George Graham’s back four.

Hopefully the chickens are coming home to roost for them now but I wouldn’t rule out them being the luckiest club ever being there to save them.

 

[brasil_spur]

No CL will hurt us bad, and I don't think we'll be there next season. Europa is only worthwhile if we can utilize it as a gateway back to the CL; otherwise it'll just be a lot of meaningless fixtures wearing out our better players.

That really depends on whether stadiums will be back to capacity or not, i assume they will at some point - in which case we're loosing a few million pounds of match day revenue for each home tie of the EL.

 

[George94]

You make a fair point but I don't think he's turning Eddie Nketiah into a Harry Kane or a Maitland Niles into a Kyle Walker.

As Poch once said "Harry Kane is Harry Kane, because he's Harry Kane".

Not one with all the natural talent in the world, like an Edel Taarabt, but an absolute elite mentality to work hard and become the very best.

Once in a generation type striker.

 

[spurs9]

You make a fair point but I don't think he's turning Eddie Nketiah into a Harry Kane or a Maitland Niles into a Kyle Walker.

No one thought Poch could turn the Harry Kane pre 2014 into peak Harry Kane, even the fans that highly rated him as a youth player.

ATM, Arsenal are full of Capoue's, Kaboul's, Adebayor's, Chiriche's and Paulinho's and whilst he might not be able to turn Maitland-Niles into a Walker, maybe he could turn him into a Dier and Bellerin into a Walker.

I hope we never find out.

 

[yankspurs]

No one thought Poch could turn the Harry Kane pre 2014 into peak Harry Kane, even the fans that highly rated him as a youth player.

ATM, Arsenal are full of Capoue's, Kaboul's, Adebayor's, Chiriche's and Paulinho's and whilst he might not be able to turn Maitland-Niles into a Walker, maybe he could turn him into a Dier and Bellerin into a Walker.

I hope we never find out.

Bellerin is far too focused on being a fashion model dickhead for that

 

[Lighty64]

watch just before the 2hour mark, till around 2hr 13mins... then a few Chelsea trolls if u want more laughs.

my favorite part is when the point troops was trying to make... we drop 4 points to Brighton this season.......

well... it became 6.

old baldy with his "they only had 3 shots" needs a visit to specsavers.

9 shots and 5 on target, and that was only 1 less than what Arsenal had on target

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51779565

 

[spursfan77]

Only two points behind us now and they play Norwich next. Unthinkable that they could be ahead of us before we play again. Reminds me now how bad we were pre lockdown.

 

[Oh Teddy Teddy]

Saka, Martinelli both signed new contracts for them this week. Strong suggestions that a deal with Aubameyang is edging closer too

 

[riggi]

Haha

 

[kmk]

 

[King of Otters]

Excellent. Fucking despise this floppy haired manlet.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

Excellent. Fucking despise this floppy haired manlet.

Bad news for us though as he’s going to Madrid in exchange for partey