Antonio Rüdiger

[TPdYID]

Think they are quoting what Rudiger said.

In which case I soften my stance and apologise. Wasn’t clear from the OP.

 

[maltahotspur]

I can never forgive him for lying about our fans when he falsely claimed that he was racially abused. Don't want him anywhere near N17. Pass.

 

[matty74]

I find this thread more bizarre than maitland niles tgrwad as if this would ever happen . To much history between clubs and player

 

[matty74]

I find this thread more bizarre than maitland niles tgrwad as if this would ever happen . To much history between clubs and player

Thread

 

[cider spurs]

Whilst I appreciate racism, and accusations of racism should not be ignored or overlooked, it would be nice to see a few comments based on his actual footballing ability, or lack of.

Are some not wanting him purely based on his accusations.

Would he actually do a job for us, improve us. What's his strengths and weaknesses. I'm down for seeing a few comments about his actual ability.

For the record, whilst I'd certainly prefer Skriniar, I think Rudiger would actually add a bit more physicality to our defence.

 

[easley91]

Whilst I appreciate racism, and accusations of racism should not be ignored or overlooked, it would be nice to see a few comments based on his actual footballing ability, or lack of.

Are some not wanting him purely based on his accusations.

Would he actually do a job for us, improve us. What's his strengths and weaknesses. I'm down for seeing a few comments about his actual ability.

For the record, whilst I'd certainly prefer Skriniar, I think Rudiger would actually add a bit more physicality to our defence.

I think both he and Skriniar would be great to add to the squad based on ability. Rudiger has the advantage of knowing the league already as well.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I can never forgive him for lying about our fans when he falsely claimed that he was racially abused. Don't want him anywhere near N17. Pass.

Don’t want you anywhere near N17 tbh.

 

[TPdYID]

Don’t want you anywhere near N17 tbh.

How old are you? 12?

 

[Danny1]

To be honest I’d rather stick with what we have currently than sign Rüdiger. I don’t think he is an upgrade on any of our current CB’s. However if we do sign him then I will hope that he proves me wrong.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

How old are you? 12?

Nearly - 22 actually. I am disgusted by anyone who thinks Rudiger deliberately made up claims of racism. They’re the real people fans should be ashamed of, not Rudiger.

And I find it ironic that you’ve asked me how old I am given you’ve used terms like ‘politically correct fan boys’ and accused people of ‘fake news’ in this thread.

 

[TPdYID]

Nearly - 22 actually. I am disgusted by anyone who thinks Rudiger deliberately made up claims of racism. They’re the real people fans should be ashamed of, not Rudiger.

And I find it ironic that you’ve asked me how old I am given you’ve used terms like ‘politically correct fan boys’ and accused people of ‘fake news’ in this thread.

Sorry, what’s this got to do with me asking your age? Confused.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Sorry, what’s this got to do with me asking your age? Confused.

I find it quite immature for anyone to be using those terms in a serious way.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

No. He truly felt that he was racially abused. That's quite a life changing thing on of itself and you cannot downplay the impact that has on an individual. Especially whilst you're in your place of work.

The investigation came up with nothing, but that doesn't change the fact that Rudiger so firmly believes it and might feel the investigation didn't do it's job properly or anything like that. Why diffuse the situation if you in your heart of hearts feel like you've been racially abused?

It's so disconcerting to me that so many get this worked up about just the mere accusation of being called racist.

I do get where you're coming from in some respects but what I've bolded above..........you can't understand why some people might get upset about being accused of racism? Really? I find that reaction to be every bit as disconcerting as you find their reaction. That's not to say that either reaction is right or wrong. It's just to say, as if it needed saying, that we are all different. There is no homogeneity of emotional response.

I can't speak for anyone else but this is how I feel:

It leaves a lingering, bitter taste in my mouth that a cloud of shame and suspicion hangs over the club as a consequence of the events of that night. It makes me angry whenever I think of it. Especially because, for reasons related earlier in the thread, I am as convinced as I could be that Rudiger misheard. Now you might say that I shouldn't be angry. Because you aren't angry. And it's fine that you aren't. But the thing is, I can't help but be angry about what happened. Emotion is spontaneous and truthful. It cannot be denied. I can try with all my might to tell myself that I'm not angry but I'd only be lying. And I'd always know it.

Unlike an earlier poster, I don't feel that I have been personally accused of racism. But I take the accusation personally nevertheless. That is because I love Spurs so deeply. When Spurs hurts, I hurt. When Spurs is under attack, I feel under attack. As the song we know so well goes, I feel sad when you're sad. I feel glad when you're glad. So I equally find it bizarre when people say that Spurs fans shouldn't take it personally. Once again, those of us who do have no choice in the matter. You don't take it personally, I guess. That's fine. I have no problem with that. But your experience is not my experience. That is all.

Now as to Rudiger's role in all of this, how he responded on the night was absolutely fine. He had every reason to believe that he had just been racially abused. What disappoints me is that, after the thorough investigation produced nothing by way corroborating evidence from CCTV or fans in the stands, he had the opportunity to hold out an olive branch. But he spurned it. Instead of acknowledging the possibility that he could have misheard, he repeated his accusation and even obliquely implied some kind of cover up.

You might feel that he had every right to say what he said and not to acknowledge even the slightest possibility of error on his part. But I feel differently. For better or for worse, I have an acute sense of justice. And it rankles when I feel that it has not been served and when someone wrongly accused must bear the burden of assumed guilt regardless. And bear it Spurs must, as articles by a number of journalists and comments by countless others amply demonstrate.

 

[TPdYID]

What disappoints me is that, after the thorough investigation produced nothing by way corroborating evidence from CCTV or fans in the stands, he had the opportunity to hold out an olive branch. But he spurned it. Instead of acknowledging the possibility that he could have misheard, he repeated his accusation and even obliquely implied some kind of cover up.

Winner rep x1000 and expertly articulated. Well played that lemonade drinker!

 

[punkisback]

I've been racially abused in the past but nothing has come of it, even with some of those times going to boards of people/people with power etc... I still know I was racially abused despite these people of power not being able to definitively prove it.

That's what's happened with Rudiger, in his eyes. He believes it. The investigation didn't find anything as proof. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, it means that they didn't find anything. And there's every chance there was nothing. But Rudiger feels that there was, and thus thinks that racism won. Completely fine for him to feel that way and in his position I would 1000% be the same and would want to keep fighting my case and sticking up for what I believe.

Agree been in the same position. People don’t know what it’s like.

 

[goughie1966]

Having made the bench in Chelsea's opening game away at Brighton Rudiger has not featured since, not even making the bench. Lampard said the following recently:

‘On Rudiger, I’ve got five centre-backs at the club. I can’t pick a squad that has three of them on the bench,’ said Lampard.

Not sure I want one that Lampard classes as the worst of 5 he has which I find incredible considering how poor they are defensively. I wonder if there's more to it.

 

[Zbreps]

Nearly - 22 actually. I am disgusted by anyone who thinks Rudiger deliberately made up claims of racism. They’re the real people fans should be ashamed of, not Rudiger.

And I find it ironic that you’ve asked me how old I am given you’ve used terms like ‘politically correct fan boys’ and accused people of ‘fake news’ in this thread.

It is astonishing to me that people think someone - especially a public figure - would outright fabricate a claim like that. Given how much scrutiny it puts the accuser under, to do it without at least truly believing that it happened would suggest a person whose mental state is completely beyond the pale.

 

[Maxtremist]

I do get where you're coming from in some respects but what I've bolded above..........you can't understand why some people might get upset about being accused of racism? Really? I find that reaction to be every bit as disconcerting as you find their reaction. That's not to say that either reaction is right or wrong. It's just to say, as if it needed saying, that we are all different. There is no homogeneity of emotional response.

I can't speak for anyone else but this is how I feel:

It leaves a lingering, bitter taste in my mouth that a cloud of shame and suspicion hangs over the club as a consequence of the events of that night. It makes me angry whenever I think of it. Especially because, for reasons related earlier in the thread, I am as convinced as I could be that Rudiger misheard. Now you might say that I shouldn't be angry. Because you aren't angry. And it's fine that you aren't. But the thing is, I can't help but be angry about what happened. Emotion is spontaneous and truthful. It cannot be denied. I can try with all my might to tell myself that I'm not angry but I'd only be lying. And I'd always know it.

Unlike an earlier poster, I don't feel that I have been personally accused of racism. But I take the accusation personally nevertheless. That is because I love Spurs so deeply. When Spurs hurts, I hurt. When Spurs is under attack, I feel under attack. As the song we know so well goes, I feel sad when you're sad. I feel glad when you're glad. So I equally find it bizarre when people say that Spurs fans shouldn't take it personally. Once again, those of us who do have no choice in the matter. You don't take it personally, I guess. That's fine. I have no problem with that. But your experience is not my experience. That is all.

Now as to Rudiger's role in all of this, how he responded on the night was absolutely fine. He had every reason to believe that he had just been racially abused. What disappoints me is that, after the thorough investigation produced nothing by way corroborating evidence from CCTV or fans in the stands, he had the opportunity to hold out an olive branch. But he spurned it. Instead of acknowledging the possibility that he could have misheard, he repeated his accusation and even obliquely implied some kind of cover up.

You might feel that he had every right to say what he said and not to acknowledge even the slightest possibility of error on his part. But I feel differently. For better or for worse, I have an acute sense of justice. And it rankles when I feel that it has not been served and when someone wrongly accused must bear the burden of assumed guilt regardless. And bear it Spurs must, as articles by a number of journalists and comments by countless others amply demonstrate.

You talk of justice and that's the issue though. Cause Rudiger doesn't feel justice was served. Ultimately it's a clash of opinions. Rudiger doesn't feel his justice was served in this case.

As for the disconcerning part, I find it disconcerning that people appear to be more concerned about accused of being racist than a player feeling they were racially abused. Naturally I want Tottenham to be a club I can fully support on and off the pitch and when the investigation was happening I hoped it didn't we hadn't actually thrown racist chants at him. Doesn't change the fact that Rudiger felt that and even with an investigation we can't know 100% what happened.

In terms of the cloud of shame and all that, I get where you're coming from to an extent but that does ring a little like you can't believe this club has a racist fan? I'm 100 sure we have a racist fan. As does every club. Let's not pretend racism isn't still a thing. (Not saying you said that).
I bring that up in as much as its a problem that needs to be dealt with. That's why we have the no room for racism campaign. No club is perfect.

So if we're accused of stuff it's a dark day for us. Yes. But that cannot be worse than the actual act of racism which, to me at least, it feels like is happening.

Being accused of racism is in no way shape or form worse than actually being the victim of racism.

Ultimately with this scenario Rudiger felt like he was racially abused and I sympathy with him on that. Our fans deny it and an investigation found nothing to prove any racist chants happened. Rudiger still seemingly feels and believes something did happen and that the investigation failed. As mentioned I've been in that situation in the past so very much sympathise with Rudiger. I get that being accused of something you didn't do hurts and is bad, for sure, but it's not worse than being the victim of something that doesn't get any punishment.

Even with the investigation, we'll never know 100% happened and I'm not gonna try and say what happened cause I dunno. Fact is Rudiger felt he was racially abused and rightly called it out.

 

[curlacious]

You talk of justice and that's the issue though. Cause Rudiger doesn't feel justice was served. Ultimately it's a clash of opinions. Rudiger doesn't feel his justice was served in this case.

As for the disconcerning part, I find it disconcerning that people appear to be more concerned about accused of being racist than a player feeling they were racially abused. Naturally I want Tottenham to be a club I can fully support on and off the pitch and when the investigation was happening I hoped it didn't we hadn't actually thrown racist chants at him. Doesn't change the fact that Rudiger felt that and even with an investigation we can't know 100% what happened.

In terms of the cloud of shame and all that, I get where you're coming from to an extent but that does ring a little like you can't believe this club has a racist fan? I'm 100 sure we have a racist fan. As does every club. Let's not pretend racism isn't still a thing. (Not saying you said that).
I bring that up in as much as its a problem that needs to be dealt with. That's why we have the no room for racism campaign. No club is perfect.

So if we're accused of stuff it's a dark day for us. Yes. But that cannot be worse than the actual act of racism which, to me at least, it feels like is happening.

Being accused of racism is in no way shape or form worse than actually being the victim of racism.

Ultimately with this scenario Rudiger felt like he was racially abused and I sympathy with him on that. Our fans deny it and an investigation found nothing to prove any racist chants happened. Rudiger still seemingly feels and believes something did happen and that the investigation failed. As mentioned I've been in that situation in the past so very much sympathise with Rudiger. I get that being accused of something you didn't do hurts and is bad, for sure, but it's not worse than being the victim of something that doesn't get any punishment.

Even with the investigation, we'll never know 100% happened and I'm not gonna try and say what happened cause I dunno. Fact is Rudiger felt he was racially abused and rightly called it out.

This is how I feel, but expressed more eloquently. Particularly this:

“I find it disconcerning that people appear to be more concerned about accused of being racist than a player feeling they were racially abused.”

 

[ReadieSpur]

I've been racially abused in the past but nothing has come of it, even with some of those times going to boards of people/people with power etc... I still know I was racially abused despite these people of power not being able to definitively prove it.

That's what's happened with Rudiger, in his eyes. He believes it. The investigation didn't find anything as proof. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, it means that they didn't find anything. And there's every chance there was nothing. But Rudiger feels that there was, and thus thinks that racism won. Completely fine for him to feel that way and in his position I would 1000% be the same and would want to keep fighting my case and sticking up for what I believe.

Thanks for sharing and it really sucks that you have experienced that. Racism in any form is completely abhorrent. I would like to think/hope that most people feel that way these days but alas we know that there are still many idiots out there that hold archaic and idiotic views. This is not an easy situation, as there are some spurs fans that seem to feel genuinely upset that they were accused of racism, when they are certain that they were not. Some what understandably they would be defensive about being labelled as such. So I. One side we have a person absolutely certain that they were racially abused and on the other side a group of people seemingly certain that the person misheard and was mistake. Both parties unwilling to retract. Nobody 100% certain of the facts.

All in all I would think the club should avoid any uncomfortable situation here and just move on to another target