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A bit of perspective...

1882andallthat

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2009
2,821
4,157
For all the doom and gloom merchants
Before yesterday
Spurs at GW 15, under Poch:
2014: 21 points GF18 GA21
2015: 26 points GF25 GA12
2016: 27 points GF24 GA11 av=2.56 for rest of season 86
2017: 25 points GF23 GA13 av= 2.65 for rest season 86 points


(or 2.63 after Stoke)




Last season we managed to average 2.56 points per game from GW 15 onwards or put slightly differently from the last 23 games we got 59 points.

we do that again now post stoke ie 22 games 56 points and we will end up with 84 points.

After that It does not really matter what anyone else does. We will be top 4 with that points total and most likely top 2.

With Vic and Tony back soon and a possible Barkley incoming whats not to like?
It will be great if we could repeat this, but to put it into perspective we will need to virtually repeat the results from last season, putting this into perspective as we have already lost at home to Chelsea and away to Arsenal we have to do the following : draw away at City at least this weekend, beat them in the return Wembley fixture, beat Arsenal and Man Utd at Wembley, and also take 3 points away from Stamford Bridge to make up for the loss earlier this season at Wembley, and we will have to do all this whilst maintaining participation in the knock out stages of the Champions League, and staying in the FA cup. It's not impossible and I love the optimism, but it's gonna take some doing, even with players returning from injuries !!!!
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
25,914
16,413
The amount of times I've heard that about us in the last few years. Credit where it's due.
It's unlikely that any credit will be given if we finish fifth or sixth. We finished in the top 4 for two seasons running, this season we've qualified from the group of death and beaten the current CL holders in the process. The expectation level is huge now, an unfortunate price to pay for success. It should be remembered that we are way ahead of schedule, the stadium isn't even finished yet but we're still challenging for a top 4 spot and could find ourselves in the quarter final of the CL, despite the injuries and new players that haven't even had a preseason.
 

Dougal

Staff
Jun 4, 2004
60,346
129,923
It's unlikely that any credit will be given if we finish fifth or sixth. We finished in the top 4 for two seasons running, this season we've qualified from the group of death and beaten the current CL holders in the process. The expectation level is huge now, an unfortunate price to pay for success. It should be remembered that we are way ahead of schedule, the stadium isn't even finished yet but we're still challenging for a top 4 spot and could find ourselves in the quarter final of the CL, despite the injuries and new players that haven't even had a preseason.
I was talking about Burnley.
 

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
It's unlikely that any credit will be given if we finish fifth or sixth. We finished in the top 4 for two seasons running, this season we've qualified from the group of death and beaten the current CL holders in the process. The expectation level is huge now, an unfortunate price to pay for success. It should be remembered that we are way ahead of schedule, the stadium isn't even finished yet but we're still challenging for a top 4 spot and could find ourselves in the quarter final of the CL, despite the injuries and new players that haven't even had a preseason.
I actually don't think we are THAT much ahead of schedule any longer. Under Pochettino, I certainly believe that when we first broke into top 4, that was ahead of schedule. But this is his fourth season now, and we have only two top four trophies, one above arsenal trophy, one horrendous CL campaign and finally, one outstanding CL campaign. As much as this is highly acceptable for Tottenham Hotspur, I think the "ahead of schedule" paradigm is starting to get outdated.
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
25,914
16,413
I actually don't think we are THAT much ahead of schedule any longer. Under Pochettino, I certainly believe that when we first broke into top 4, that was ahead of schedule. But this is his fourth season now, and we have only two top four trophies, one above arsenal trophy, one horrendous CL campaign and finally, one outstanding CL campaign. As much as this is highly acceptable for Tottenham Hotspur, I think the "ahead of schedule" paradigm is starting to get outdated.
There are 5 other clubs way richer than ourselves that won't change anytime soon even with the stadium. I'm also disappointed with the trophy haul but unfortunately the domestic cups and the europa cup have taken a back seat to a top spot 4, the whole club is to blame for that not just one man.
 

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
There are 5 other clubs way richer than ourselves that won't change anytime soon even with the stadium. I'm also disappointed with the trophy haul but unfortunately the domestic cups and the europa cup have taken a back seat to a top spot 4, the whole club is to blame for that not just one man.
Oh absolutely, I'm not seeking to undermine any one person. But if we saw Levy's 5 year plan from 2014, I just don't think we are crazy far ahead of it at this point. We are probably, and I'm guesstimating, more or less where we should be.

As far as richer clubs in the future, I think it's not unrealistic to talk about overtaking Liverpool when it comes to finances.
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
25,914
16,413
Oh absolutely, I'm not seeking to undermine any one person. But if we saw Levy's 5 year plan from 2014, I just don't think we are crazy far ahead of it at this point. We are probably, and I'm guesstimating, more or less where we should be.

As far as richer clubs in the future, I think it's not unrealistic to talk about overtaking Liverpool when it comes to finances.
He probably hoped that we would be top 4 but should be top 4? Why should we be top 4? We have to compete with two oil rich clubs and Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea and Liverpool, we've only won the league twice in our history.

For us to overtake Liverpool we have to hope that they just remain static while we progress, I dont think we will be overtaking them financially anytime soon.
 

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
He probably hoped that we would be top 4 but should be top 4? Why should we be top 4? We have to compete with two oil rich clubs and Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea and Liverpool, we've only won the league twice in our history.

For us to overtake Liverpool we have to hope that they just remain static while we progress, I dont think we will be overtaking them financially anytime soon.
What we should or shouldn't is a different matter. The question, is there a plan, and if so, are we very much ahead of it. My personal guess is "yes" and "no".

We are closer to Liverpool than one might think, and it is not incredibly unlikely that the new stadium will even out the gap. And if we don't literally overtake them, we will be on par, quite soon, IMO. The four other clubs obviously, that's a different matter.
 

Mullers

Unknown member
Jan 4, 2006
25,914
16,413
What we should or shouldn't is a different matter. The question, is there a plan, and if so, are we very much ahead of it. My personal guess is "yes" and "no".

We are closer to Liverpool than one might think, and it is not incredibly unlikely that the new stadium will even out the gap. And if we don't literally overtake them, we will be on par, quite soon, IMO. The four other clubs obviously, that's a different matter.
Liverpool have got a big history and support behind them, just finishing above them in the league and a stadium is not enough, we would need that regular CL spot.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
Oh absolutely, I'm not seeking to undermine any one person. But if we saw Levy's 5 year plan from 2014, I just don't think we are crazy far ahead of it at this point. We are probably, and I'm guesstimating, more or less where we should be.

As far as richer clubs in the future, I think it's not unrealistic to talk about overtaking Liverpool when it comes to finances.

Football wise.....

In 2014 did you think we would be where we are now?

Let's just take into consideration one thing he nor anyone could have predicted in that we have a phenomenon in Harry Kane without whom I'm not sure we would be where we are at this exact moment.

I'm not saying we wouldn't be competing for 4th as we had been anyway but he makes us a different beast entirely.

Most people at the beginning of this season couldn't even see us finishing top of our CL group let alone even qualifying. I'm completely and constantly still suprised at how fantastic a side we have and whilst we may have a dip in form now and again we are certainly a greater side that I would have predicted back then and I genuinely think we are still over achieving comparatively to the sides around us whos outlay on transfers and wages dwarf us .
 

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Jan 9, 2014
14,914
26,616
Football wise.....

In 2014 did you think we would be where we are now?

Let's just take into consideration one thing he nor anyone could have predicted in that we have a phenomenon in Harry Kane without whom I'm not sure we would be where we are at this exact moment.

I'm not saying we wouldn't be competing for 4th as we had been anyway but he makes us a different beast entirely.

Most people at the beginning of this season couldn't even see us finishing top of our CL group let alone even qualifying. I'm completely and constantly still suprised at how fantastic a side we have and whilst we may have a dip in form now and again we are certainly a greater side that I would have predicted back then and I genuinely think we are still over achieving comparatively to the sides around us whos outlay on transfers and wages dwarf us .
But you see, questions about what you think or what I think or what most fans thought or think is really a different topic altogether. This isn't about achievements compared to your subjective thoughts.

If we assume that a plan was put in place for from Pochettino took over and 5 years ahead, the question isn't what you or I think, but how are we doing according to such a plan. Nobody would draw up a plan saying "we aim to do more or less bang average because Arsenal and Chelsea are so rich". That's not a plan.

Let's assume there was a bit more blue-skye thinking than that. In such a case, I believe it's fully possible that we stumbled across a top 4 (in fact top 3) finish that caught most, both on the inside and the outside of the club, by surprise. At that point it is fully likely that we were well ahead of even optimistic trajectories.

But somehow, it has stuck with us as this perpetual idea that we are constantly so much better than a plan could suggest that we should be. Now, 3.5 years into the Pochettino era, I don't see any evidence that we are over-achieving to a great extent compared to what would have been logical long-term goals. What we are doing at this point, is that we are more or less fighting for a top 4 place and holding our on in European competition. We are not really truly competing for major trophies yet. We are just on the fringe of being able to do that.

I would be disappointed with aims and goal planning if where we are at now is not more or less quite aligned with the goals and aim all along for this point in time after Pochettino startetd.
 

longtimespur

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2014
5,830
9,949
IMO I think the plan was a 5 year plan with the target of winning major trophy/ies by the end of it.
In which case there is no perspective to take, we are where we are and I would suggest it is where we were intending to be.
Which considering our injuries, minimal financial cost and size/ ability of our squad is there or there abouts.
 

whitestreak

SC Supporter
Dec 8, 2006
820
3,406
Thought Id look at this time last year. Our performance does not look too different!

In fact we have scored 1 more and let in 2 more than last year and are 2 points worse off

We got 53 points from here on in....
I think we can catch Man U....They are not so great...Man C is another story
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2016-17 Premier League Standings
PositionTeamPWDLGFGAGDPts
1Chelsea1714123511+2443
2Liverpool1711424120+2137
3Manchester City1711333620+1636
4Arsenal1710433819+1934
5Tottenham179622912+1733
6Manchester United178632417+730
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
But you see, questions about what you think or what I think or what most fans thought or think is really a different topic altogether. This isn't about achievements compared to your subjective thoughts.

If we assume that a plan was put in place for from Pochettino took over and 5 years ahead, the question isn't what you or I think, but how are we doing according to such a plan. Nobody would draw up a plan saying "we aim to do more or less bang average because Arsenal and Chelsea are so rich". That's not a plan.

Let's assume there was a bit more blue-skye thinking than that. In such a case, I believe it's fully possible that we stumbled across a top 4 (in fact top 3) finish that caught most, both on the inside and the outside of the club, by surprise. At that point it is fully likely that we were well ahead of even optimistic trajectories.

But somehow, it has stuck with us as this perpetual idea that we are constantly so much better than a plan could suggest that we should be. Now, 3.5 years into the Pochettino era, I don't see any evidence that we are over-achieving to a great extent compared to what would have been logical long-term goals. What we are doing at this point, is that we are more or less fighting for a top 4 place and holding our on in European competition. We are not really truly competing for major trophies yet. We are just on the fringe of being able to do that.

I would be disappointed with aims and goal planning if where we are at now is not more or less quite aligned with the goals and aim all along for this point in time after Pochettino startetd.

I get your point but I don't buy that we weren't really, truly competing for the prem title last season.

Either way I think we are smashing it at the moment and our future is looking very bright indeed.
 
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