2023/24 - The Race For..................

[Shanks]

I agree about not getting carried away based on 3 matches. But for me the big difference is the mood around the club and the way we are playing compared to last season. In fact compared to the start of any season in recent memory.

Last season we started well in terms of results but there were serious questions regarding performances early on. So much so that there was a whole narrative about Conte’s master-plan being to conserve energy during the first half of the season.

A lot of pieces are in place now that weren’t last year, like positive football, a coach who is committed for more than a year, no European football.

I think we should aim high. I won’t be massively disappointed if we don’t finish in the top four but I think we should be having a crack at it, at the very least.

100% agree pal, definitely aim higher than 6

 

[nicdic]

Wheres my title option?

 

[Lo Amo Speroni]

I am finding it difficult to predict where we could finish this season. I can predict that it will be an enjoyable ride though.

 

[hughy]

I am finding it difficult to predict where we could finish this season. I can predict that it will be an enjoyable ride though.

I actually think we'll be pretty steady. I'm not talking 2.3 points per game steady, but I definitely think we could reach 70 points. It's pretty touch-and-go whether that gets you top 4 in recent seasons, but it practically guarantees top 5 which should be enough for CL this year.

For me it depends a lot on how the likes of Newcastle, Brighton, Villa and to a lesser extent West Ham deal with European football on top of their PL calendar. They all have undoubtedly strong starting 11's, but I don't look at any of those teams and see vast strength in depth. Particularly Newcastle who will have to play their strongest 11 for PL and CL games, possibly only being able to rotate in the wide-forward positions.

If I had to put my balls on the line I'd predict City, Arsenal and Liverpool finishing comfortably ahead of us, and us scrapping for 4th/5th with United and Chelsea.

 

[easley91]

There are four or five teams who will have to contend with Europe that aren't used to it. Yes Arsenal had Europa and West Ham won the Conference League, but I'd imagine they'd take the comps they're in this year more seriously as it's one level above.

Arsenal won't rotate the squad in the group stage of the Champions League like they did in the Europa. Will test that squad to its fullest. Newcastle will also have that test.

Brighton and Villa I'd imagine will want to do well in Europe, Villa especially with Emery in charge as it's his competition, so can't see too much rotation from them. They'll also have to contend with the Sunday, Thursday, Sunday routine. Takes time to get used to along with the travelling involved as we well know.

There's definitely a lot of strong competition for the top 4/5 with Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, United, us, Newcastle, Villa and Brighton. Brentford could also be in the mix for conference league or europa. As a neutral it should be a decent season to watch play out.

 

[spurs9]

Haha 1 goal contribution between them in 3 games. Join reality mate. The rest of the team is great but this front 3 is going to let us down badly

Our best ever PL season, our front 3 had only scored 1 goal after the first 3 games (we only scored 3 as a team in that time).

 

[Flobadob]

Our best ever PL season, our front 3 had only scored 1 goal after the first 3 games (we only scored 3 as a team in that time).

If you can see this front 3 causing enough problems then that’s your opinion but I just can’t. Son isn’t suited to playing out wide anymore for me, Richarlison has looked pretty poor if you’re being honest (not just this season) and Kulusevski doesn’t offer any threat of going on the outside and delivering quality crosses off his right and is therefore too predictable. If we moved Son to striker and signed at least one winger that’s actually a proper winger I’d probably change my mind, so let’s see what we end up with

 

[newbie]

we need to sign a striker (who looks like scoring) and winger to have any chance

Ofc we have solomon but we need to add some pace and goals fast.

 

[spurs9]

If you can see this front 3 causing enough problems then that’s your opinion but I just can’t. Son isn’t suited to playing out wide anymore for me, Richarlison has looked pretty poor if you’re being honest (not just this season) and Kulusevski doesn’t offer any threat of going on the outside and delivering quality crosses off his right and is therefore too predictable. If we moved Son to striker and signed at least one winger that’s actually a proper winger I’d probably change my mind, so let’s see what we end up with

I agree on Richarlison, disagree on Son and Kulusevski. You have to remember, they are 3 league games into a completely new system.

 

[Flobadob]

I agree on Richarlison, disagree on Son and Kulusevski. You have to remember, they are 3 league games into a completely new system.

What would you say gives you faith that Son and Kulusevski could be suited to the wing roles in this system over time?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

As usual the end of the window will make a big difference to what we aim for during the season and if it ends the way it usually does then I'd say top6 is about our limit, if we can sign a CB, ST and ideally a WF and CM if GLC or PEH go as well (won't happen) then I think we could've gone for top3-5 behind City and Arsenal.

We are always left short.

 

[spurs9]

What would you say gives you faith that Son and Kulusevski could be suited to the wing roles in this system over time?

Son has previously proven it and he has also shown it in glimpses during the first 3 games, he just needs to improve his crossing slightly and balance out his team play with shooting (he is looking to pass too often when he would usually shoot)

Kulusevski has also shown it in that first half season when he first joined and whilst he is still cutting in far too often, he is going on the outside more often each game (usually more in the 2nd half too). He needs to keep improving and still has a way to go, but he is getting there.

 

[Flobadob]

Son has previously proven it and he has also shown it in glimpses during the first 3 games, he just needs to improve his crossing slightly and balance out his team play with shooting (he is looking to pass too often when he would usually shoot)

Kulusevski has also shown it in that first half season when he first joined and whilst he is still cutting in far too often, he is going on the outside more often each game (usually more in the 2nd half too). He needs to keep improving and still has a way to go, but he is getting there.

They proved it as wide 10’s in Conte’s system with overlapping wingbacks and they both do their best work inside. In Ange’s system their job is first and foremost to keep the width and beat the fullback, preferably on the outside 1v1, without the support of the fullback as they play the inverted role and get crosses into the box for the arriving striker, 10 and 8. They haven’t actually proven they can play this current role at all IMO and I can see them improving slightly but I think ultimately neither will suit it and they will be better used in field (Son as ST and Kulu as 10).

 

[stevel]

If you can see this front 3 causing enough problems then that’s your opinion but I just can’t.

One thing that's clear to me from the first three games and the six goals we've scored in them is that this season we aren't going to be as reliant on the front three to score goals as we have been recently. Beteeen midfielders and even fullbacks arriving in the box and Maddison's set piece delivery goals are coming from other sources.

 

[stevel]

In Ange’s system their job is first and foremost to keep the width and beat the fullback, preferably on the outside 1v1, without the support of the fullback as they play the inverted role and get crosses into the box for the arriving striker, 10 and 8.

I think there is much more to their role than that. In this system the fullbacks support them by making underlapping runs, like when Peresic fed Udogie against Bournemouth which ultimately led to Kulu's goal. And they also feed the midfielders inside on the edge of the box, like Kulu fed Biss against Bournemouth which ultimately led to Maddison's goal.
But you're right that there's much less opportunity for them to come inside and shoot which led to goals for both Son and Kulu in past seasons.

 

[spurs9]

They proved it as wide 10’s in Conte’s system with overlapping wingbacks and they both do their best work inside. In Ange’s system their job is first and foremost to keep the width and beat the fullback, preferably on the outside 1v1, without the support of the fullback as they play the inverted role and get crosses into the box for the arriving striker, 10 and 8. They haven’t actually proven they can play this current role at all IMO and I can see them improving slightly but I think ultimately neither will suit it and they will be better used in field (Son as ST and Kulu as 10).

I disagree that Ange's wingers play like that though. Sometimes they will beat their full back and go on the outside and cross but not the majority of the time.

Here is what I have written on it previously.

My point was more about Jota being no better in the PL for that role, but I also disagree that the wide player needs to be a dribbly hug the touchline winger, Jota often comes inside into the channels and Son is capable of going wide pulling the ball back or crossing.

Here are all of Jota's goals and assists last season (and other highlights). As you will see, the wingers in Postecoglou's system don't hug the wings and cross on the outside like people would have you believe. A fully fit Son is more than capable of playing that role.

A lot of posters seem to think that Ange's wingers at Celtic constantly took their man on, however if you watch Celtics games back it just simply isn't true.

Jota was Celtics most common and successful dribbler and he averages 1.5 dribbles per game (2.01 per 90 mins) with a success rate of 48% and averaged 24.7 passes per game (33.18 per 90).

Compare that to Son so far this season (i know small sample size) averages 2 dribbles per game (2.17 per 90) with a success rate of 57% and averaged 30 passes per game (32.53 per 90).

Son just needs to get better his crossing, taking his shots and taking up better positions at times, but we know he is capable of better in all of those things, he is just a bit rusty atm.

The wingers in Ange's system don't stay wide, they start wide and cut inside. If you look at their Heatmaps, they are largely the same area's as Kulusevski, except Kulusevski had more touches deeper (due to being in a low block, as oppose to a high press) and just more touches in general.

Also, Udogie isn't a "bomb wide and get crosses in" wing back, he rarely crosses and cuts inside and plays in the "half spaces" around the box, cuts inside in the middle of the pitch and has occasionally played CM. IMO, the inverted wing back role will be perfect for him, if he can adapt to the PL.

Jota:
View attachment 127543


Abada:
View attachment 127544



Kulusevski:
View attachment 127545

 

[Chimbo!]

I feel our season hinges a lot on injuries. We have no depth at CB or CF. One injury to either position and we are in trouble.

 

[TommyW]

I feel our season hinges a lot on injuries. We have no depth at CB or CF. One injury to either position and we are in trouble.

I'm not sure an injury to our CF would make much of a difference at all

 

[dontcallme]

So the transfer window is done, though other countries deadlines means we can still sell.

We lost our talisman striker. We’ve bought a new number 1, starting centre back and playmaker.

We’ve bought 2 inside forwards who will play but likely not automatic 1st choice starters.

Then a young striker in Veliz and CB in Ashley Phillips, who likely won’t feature this season outside of a possible sub appearance.

Definite feeling of being left short, especially at centre back. We need Bentancur to recover fully.

A few injuries could really derail our season.

But with no European football and already out of half the domestic cups, we could actually have a good season.

The optimistic part of me thinks we’re a decent bet for top 4.

 

[keithtighe93]

If injuries are good to us, and we get a couple more in in January, we could finish anywhere between 2nd or 6th.

City are obviously well clear.

Arsenal overachieved last year and we could be to this season what they were to last, it’s not infeasible we could be very close to them. I don’t believe they are very far ahead of us.

Chelsea, Liverpool, United, Newcastle? None of them are better than us.

There will be bumps and setbacks, but we are good and we can make the top 4