Jose Mourinho

daveduvet · Jul 4, 2020

emiley heskey said:
What infrastructure of Liverpool??

I’ll find the article and post

danielneeds · Jul 4, 2020

Stamford said:
These players are poison.

Can you tell me which players? Is it the world-cup winning captain who stuck with us through other dark times when he so clearly could have left? Is it our soon to be record goalscorer, who came up through the club? The Belgians who'be been the best defenders we've had in the PL. The South Korean who's played with a smile on his face since joining?

The players aren't the problem. Aurier apart, I can't see anyone who's ever been anything but professional. It's the lack of a vision of plan that's let them down, the drifting into mediocrity that was allowed to happen by the board when we were in a position of strength.

doctor stefan Freud · Jul 4, 2020

danielneeds said:
Can you tell me which players? Is it the world-cup winning captain who stuck with us through other dark times when he so clearly could have left? Is it our soon to be record goalscorer, who came up through the club? The Belgians who'be been the best defenders we've had in the PL. The South Korean who's played with a smile on his face since joining?

The players aren't the problem. Aurier apart, I can't see anyone who's ever been anything but professional. It's the lack of a vision of plan that's let them down, the drifting into mediocrity that was allowed to happen by the board when we were in a position of strenght.

Absolutely- the players can’t control player recruitment or the sale of unneeded players, or a competent scouting system, or budgets, or the selling of the naming rights, or the lack of a competent DoF, or a chairman who allowed the club to not buy a single player for two transfer windows, or the failure to replace sold players with replacements at least equal in quality

mrlilywhite · Jul 4, 2020

I've been thinking a lot about next season, and it was something that crossed my mind when Poch was in charge and that is do we face a real prospect of fighting in the lower half of the table next season? I mean, it is unlikely we are going to spend anything significant in the summer and looking at even the top ten in the league now I only see Sheffield Utd and Burnley being worse than us, though that's me being positive. If the likes of Everton, Newcastle & Southampton improve just a little next season, then I could easily see us worse than just midtable and who knows just how good the teams coming up from the Championship will be in the prem, if Sheff Utd is anything to go by.

It's looking like so many players are finished at the club, and imo we need an unprecedented overhaul of players that are either past their best by some way or are mediocre. I have a feeling that if we are to try and challenge for a European place next season then we seriously need a swathe of new players and I honestly don't feel Levy has the ability to get this club what it so desperately needs. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we'll finish outside the top 10 next season. Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Utd, Leicester, and even Wolves are ahead of us and I could easily see an Arsenal resurgence under Arteta next season.

I could have said all of the above in two words really - we're fucked.

emiley heskey · Jul 4, 2020

Not player, not manager - the board, the scouts and head of all these departments Mr.Daniel Levy is the problem ...

al_pacino · Jul 4, 2020

danielneeds said:
Can you tell me which players? Is it the world-cup winning captain who stuck with us through other dark times when he so clearly could have left? Is it our soon to be record goalscorer, who came up through the club? The Belgians who'be been the best defenders we've had in the PL. The South Korean who's played with a smile on his face since joining?

The players aren't the problem. Aurier apart, I can't see anyone who's ever been anything but professional. It's the lack of a vision of plan that's let them down, the drifting into mediocrity that was allowed to happen by the board when we were in a position of strenght.

Not the attitude but the quality. Compare this team to the one that played the last season at whl. The players that have left have been replaced with inferior players and the ones that remain have, with the odd exception, been negatively impacted by age and injury.

Or to look at it another way, what were the strengths of that team?

High press - went a couple of seasons ago. Attacking fullbacks - one went to City and the other got injured a lot.
A strong balanced midfield - injured and aged out and not replaced.
Unplayable striker - We can hope that Kane can get back to something like it but even a small drop from the 16/17 form means the team has to create more chances as Kane isn't creating 5 a game for himself.

I said earlier that the club was sleep walking and I still think that's about right.

buckley · Jul 4, 2020

I think that the real problem is that we have a lot of players not wanted or needed and until they are moved on we do not have squad spaces.
But Levy always wants level one prices for level two and three players . Until he gets real and realises the reason we want rid of these players is they are not of the quality we need and therefore you should not ask the high end transfer price .
Like I say we have maybe 5 or 6 players that need moving on and until we do we are in position that we cannot buy players because there is no place for them . It would be better to sell for instance 6 players for approx 10mill£ each and then buy two 30mill£ players and then fill the squad spaces with promising youth players . But Levy being Levy will ask top dollar for our cast offs meaning they will not be sold and therefore no space in a poor squad for new players , I hope what I have said makes sense even if you do not agree .

Deleted member 27995 · Jul 4, 2020

danielneeds said:
Can you tell me which players? Is it the world-cup winning captain who stuck with us through other dark times when he so clearly could have left? Is it our soon to be record goalscorer, who came up through the club? The Belgians who'be been the best defenders we've had in the PL. The South Korean who's played with a smile on his face since joining?

The players aren't the problem. Aurier apart, I can't see anyone who's ever been anything but professional. It's the lack of a vision of plan that's let them down, the drifting into mediocrity that was allowed to happen by the board when we were in a position of strenght.

Two managers same playing squad (bar the two winter window purchases) and they don't factor into this?

The players have a responsibility in all of this, like they did with all managers before.

Wish we'd stop giving them a pass - it's fine to praise them but it's not cool to admonish them of blame considering what we've witnessed at times this season under two different coaches/managers with different visions.

CornerPinDreamer · Jul 4, 2020

tototoner said:
Privately Mourinho has preached evolution not revolution in his first season, and he is said to be conscious of the club’s attacking traditions. This would explain his often uncharacteristically offensive line-ups, including at Bramall Lane on Thursday.

daveduvet · Jul 4, 2020

daveduvet said:
I’ll find the article and post

Edit Won’t bother then

daveduvet said:
I’ll find the article and post

even tho you ‘wtf’d’ here’s the article https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...l&CMP=GTUK_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK

homer hotspur · Jul 4, 2020

mrlilywhite said:
I've been thinking a lot about next season, and it was something that crossed my mind when Poch was in charge and that is do we face a real prospect of fighting in the lower half of the table next season? I mean, it is unlikely we are going to spend anything significant in the summer and looking at even the top ten in the league now I only see Sheffield Utd and Burnley being worse than us, though that's me being positive. If the likes of Everton, Newcastle & Southampton improve just a little next season, then I could easily see us worse than just midtable and who knows just how good the teams coming up from the Championship will be in the prem, if Sheff Utd is anything to go by.

It's looking like so many players are finished at the club, and imo we need an unprecedented overhaul of players that are either past their best by some way or are mediocre. I have a feeling that if we are to try and challenge for a European place next season then we seriously need a swathe of new players and I honestly don't feel Levy has the ability to get this club what it so desperately needs. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we'll finish outside the top 10 next season. Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Utd, Leicester, and even Wolves are ahead of us and I could easily see an Arsenal resurgence under Arteta next season.

I could have said all of the above in two words really - we're fucked.

Fully agree. In fact, we have been fortunate not to have been sucked into the outskirts of the relegation battle this season.

MindOverMatter · Jul 4, 2020

I love the fact that Jose came out and slated the players. That’s one thing that poch never did, tell the players and make them know they were doing shit at times. Where as Jose will literally tell them straight up which is what we need at the moment. We’ve sat back for too long, being a nice club and it’s time for Jose to grab levy and tell him straight up what he wants.
Not saying poch was a bad manager because he wasn’t at all, he did a great job with the resources that he had. For me It’s just he was so friendly that the players could have a bad game and he would just say ‘we played alright, just needed to be more clinical, we will be stronger next times and they wouldn’t get exposed at all.
Hopefully next season we can get some magic from the special one

Athenspur · Jul 4, 2020

Feels like literally every other top-10 team have the right manager going forward.
Even Arsenal and Chelsea and Man Utd, with the rookies.
Young, hungry, forward thinking guys with a vision.
What we have is a glorified caretaker with his best years behind him, whose specialty now is poisoning everything, blaming others for his shortcomings, and laughing all the way to the bank.
Haven't felt this pessimistic about Spurs since, well, Sherwood.

slartibartfast · Jul 4, 2020

MindOverMatter said:
I love the fact that Jose came out and slated the players. That’s one thing that poch never did, tell the players and make them know they were doing shit at times. Where as Jose will literally tell them straight up which is what we need at the moment. We’ve sat back for too long, being a nice club and it’s time for Jose to grab levy and tell him straight up what he wants.
Not saying poch was a bad manager because he wasn’t at all, he did a great job with the resources that he had. For me It’s just he was so friendly that the players could have a bad game and he would just say ‘we played alright, just needed to be more clinical, we will be stronger next times and they wouldn’t get exposed at all.
Hopefully next season we can get some magic from the special one

While I agree we have been far too soft in the media for ages it amazes me that players no longer chew each other out.
How can any player not turn to Sanchez at the end of that match and say 'mate, wtf was that? You need to step up or fk off.'
If you defended like that in a pub team you'd be benched.

slartibartfast · Jul 4, 2020

mrlilywhite said:
I've been thinking a lot about next season, and it was something that crossed my mind when Poch was in charge and that is do we face a real prospect of fighting in the lower half of the table next season? I mean, it is unlikely we are going to spend anything significant in the summer and looking at even the top ten in the league now I only see Sheffield Utd and Burnley being worse than us, though that's me being positive. If the likes of Everton, Newcastle & Southampton improve just a little next season, then I could easily see us worse than just midtable and who knows just how good the teams coming up from the Championship will be in the prem, if Sheff Utd is anything to go by.

It's looking like so many players are finished at the club, and imo we need an unprecedented overhaul of players that are either past their best by some way or are mediocre. I have a feeling that if we are to try and challenge for a European place next season then we seriously need a swathe of new players and I honestly don't feel Levy has the ability to get this club what it so desperately needs. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we'll finish outside the top 10 next season. Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Utd, Leicester, and even Wolves are ahead of us and I could easily see an Arsenal resurgence under Arteta next season.

I could have said all of the above in two words really - we're fucked.

Things change very quickly in football. We were in a CL Final last season.
We can get better just as quickly as the wheels can fall off.
Dont start worrying about things that haven't happened yet.

mrlilywhite · Jul 4, 2020

buckley said:
I think that the real problem is that we have a lot of players not wanted or needed and until they are moved on we do not have squad spaces.
But Levy always wants level one prices for level two and three players . Until he gets real and realises the reason we want rid of these players is they are not of the quality we need and therefore you should not ask the high end transfer price .
Like I say we have maybe 5 or 6 players that need moving on and until we do we are in position that we cannot buy players because there is no place for them . It would be better to sell for instance 6 players for approx 10mill£ each and then buy two 30mill£ players and then fill the squad spaces with promising youth players . But Levy being Levy will ask top dollar for our cast offs meaning they will not be sold and therefore no space in a poor squad for new players , I hope what I have said makes sense even if you do not agree .

I actually think the problems at Spurs are so much more than any one thing and whilst Levy is at the top of those problems, there are a few more problems that stem off the back of Levy imo. You only need to read through the various match day threads or this thread and the ENIC thread.

Players - So many disjointed performances under both Poch and Jose, points to huge problems in motivation, older players past their best, our "star" players looking totally inept at times and much of the match(es) just pass them by. I would go onto say that the downfall of Dele Alli is a perfect example of how we had so much promise as a team, to a team that is lost in the wilderness. Dele Alli was going to be that player and we all pinned our hopes on him becoming a huge player for us. For me, Dele is an isolated case - imo he played his best stuff when he was pumped up when he had that naughty streak in him. Once that was gone, it seemed to take the edge off his game. However, I digress so I'll just sum up the point by saying - getting the right balance of players and shelving a lot of players is only one part of a huge project that we as a club face imo.

Manager - I think it's well accepted that Jose isn't the man we either want or need at the club. I thought he was bringing a new ideology and learnt his lessons from football. If I'm honest, I was one of those to back him, though with the caveat that, that was all we could get at the time - I would certainly of rather Poch turn it around, but it was his time regardless of what we wanted. Jose for his part has proved so far to be what we all thought - a relic trying to rekindle his glory days and unable to keep up with modern ideas behind tactics and systems but to give him a fair chance it is only right we judge him on players that he has personally brought into the club, as right now there is seemingly a clear link between the form from Poch's last days to the form we are still having now. I do feel though that regardless, I have been left quite bewildered by some of the decisions and that train crash with Levy is coming, as Daniel isn't prepared to just watch a £60m player in N'Dombele leave or even sit on our bench wasting money.

Chairman/ENIC - It must be abundantly clear to anyone right now that Levy and ENIC have been prepared to let this happen. Sure Levy sanctioned huge fee's for TN and GLC, however in all the years that Levy has run the club, has there ever really been a concerted effort to achieve anything other than CL? Levy has always wanted us to be self-sustainable, which is fine - but he has been totally blinded by his own belief that football transfers work his way and not by any other means or ways. The footballing side of the business has been neglected so much, that you wonder if the club exists for sporting reasons or financial ones. Levy for me is like a person that sees things only in black and white - an example lets sack Poch - get Jose in as he knows how to win things and will do the same here and conveniently sidesteps the fact that the players are totally one of the biggest, if not the biggest problem at the club, and maybe he knows this and realises that in order to fix the biggest problem will take much more money than he is prepared to throw at it.

I don't want to just be in a lovely stadium and Kudos to Teflon, it really is - but should that be his defining moment? I'd like to think that Levy could be remembered as the chairman that finally gave in and supported his manager and if it still doesn't work, then he can say "well I did my best" - failing that I'd rather ENIC sell up and hand over the keys to someone who sees's the benefit of having a competitive team, but in the current climate, I can't see anyone coughing up the dough to buy us.

DiVaio · Jul 4, 2020

mrlilywhite said:
I've been thinking a lot about next season, and it was something that crossed my mind when Poch was in charge and that is do we face a real prospect of fighting in the lower half of the table next season? I mean, it is unlikely we are going to spend anything significant in the summer and looking at even the top ten in the league now I only see Sheffield Utd and Burnley being worse than us, though that's me being positive. If the likes of Everton, Newcastle & Southampton improve just a little next season, then I could easily see us worse than just midtable and who knows just how good the teams coming up from the Championship will be in the prem, if Sheff Utd is anything to go by.

It's looking like so many players are finished at the club, and imo we need an unprecedented overhaul of players that are either past their best by some way or are mediocre. I have a feeling that if we are to try and challenge for a European place next season then we seriously need a swathe of new players and I honestly don't feel Levy has the ability to get this club what it so desperately needs. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we'll finish outside the top 10 next season. Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Utd, Leicester, and even Wolves are ahead of us and I could easily see an Arsenal resurgence under Arteta next season.

I could have said all of the above in two words really - we're fucked.

Seriously, do you really think that? Would you bet money that we won't finish in top10 next season?

mrlilywhite · Jul 4, 2020

slartibartfast said:
Things change very quickly in football. We were in a CL Final last season.
We can get better just as quickly as the wheels can fall off.
Dont start worrying about things that haven't happened yet.

Yeah that was a papering over the cracks season if ever there was one and the CL final run-up was showered with luck and one player wonder moments - if only we could get those performances out of Moura more often eh?

mrlilywhite · Jul 4, 2020

DiVaio said:
Seriously, do you really think that? Would you bet money that we won't finish in top10 next season?

Yep, I seriously would. Right now we are going backward and not forward. The caveat to that is, that is based on what I think we are like now, and if we went into next season with what we have now, then I'll stand by my opinion that we'll finish outside the top 10 - of course, that could change, so I'm open-minded right now based on what we do in the transfer market, however one doesn't need a crystal ball to know that the club will spout that great line of "we tried, but x, y or z demanded too much" or words to that effect.

DiVaio · Jul 4, 2020

mrlilywhite said:
Yep, I seriously would. Right now we are going backward and not forward. The caveat to that is, that is based on what I think we are like now, and if we went into next season with what we have now, then I'll stand by my opinion that we'll finish outside the top 10 - of course, that could change, so I'm open-minded right now based on what we do in the transfer market, however one doesn't need a crystal ball to know that the club will spout that great line of "we tried, but x, y or z demanded too much" or words to that effect.

Even Leicester currently aren’t better than us and they are very dependent on Ndidi and Vardy.
How are we going backwards? I would also say that apart from Chelsea we are the most linked with players by reliable media.

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