Match Ratings Ratings vs West Ham

JonnySpurs · Jun 24, 2020

SUIYHA said:
It's amazing how much the result influences these ratings here. Make no mistake, the first half was very poor and very few players can come away with any credit from it. The opening goal was a complete fluke and should have been disallowed, that meant West Ham had to come out and attack us which left space for Kane to get his goal. If it had been disallowed and we'd dropped points then half of you praising our players would be giving much lower scores.

GLC was easily the best player on the pitch. The back five all did pretty well particularly Dier. Kane was crap in the first half but got much better in the second. We looked a lot better when Lamela and Bergwijn came on. Alli and Son were both very poor (Son's disallowed goal aside), Lucas and Sissoko had a couple of good moments but largely ineffective.

I hear what you're saying but equally you're taking quite a negative view of the game. "if it had been disallowed and we'd dropped points....". There was plenty of time left and that goal was clearly coming. I agree that the 1st half hour wasn't good enough but West Ham offered barely anything, we defended pretty well and it was mainly that we just needed to be more clinical in front of goal.

To my mind there's a sort of pre-season rustiness to our game and that can be said for other teams too since the restart. There's been a number of 0-0 draws and lack of quality in general. I also have no doubts that the lack of atmosphere is having an impact too. Football is basically nothing without the fans there.

We absolutely need to improve and the side needs better balance desperately but there are signs of something good there IMO.

JonnySpurs · Jun 24, 2020

Timberwolf said:
I think Dele basically purely gets picked because of his goalscoring record. Who else can we play in that position can we rely on to score upwards of 10 league goals a season?

Problem is every other aspect of his game has completely stagnated and picking him often seems to be to the detriment of the team these days.

Must admit I'm struggling with Dele. On his day he can be so good and can often prove to be an excellent partner for Kane but right now he's offering very little.

If it meant getting more minutes for Ndombele then I'd rather see Lo Celso play higher up, supporting Kane - particularly considering how he played for Betis high up the pitch, and then Ndombele in CM with a CDM behind him.

Timberwolf · Jun 24, 2020

JonnySpurs said:
Must admit I'm struggling with Dele. On his day he can be so good and can often prove to be an excellent partner for Kane but right now he's offering very little.

If it meant getting more minutes for Ndombele then I'd rather see Lo Celso play higher up, supporting Kane - particularly considering how he played for Betis high up the pitch, and then Ndombele in CM with a CDM behind him.

Problem is Jose simply doesn't trust Ndombele to cover ground, track runs and maintain the discipline that Lo Celso, Sissoko or Winks does in CM.

I think Tanguy will get a chance at some point over the next few games, and he's gonna have to seriously make the most of it, or we'll be looking at having a very expensive benchwarmer for the foreseeable future.

JonnySpurs · Jun 24, 2020

Timberwolf said:
Problem is Jose simply doesn't trust Ndombele to cover ground, track runs and maintain the discipline that Lo Celso, Sissoko or Winks does in CM.

I think Tanguy will get a chance at some point over the next few games, and he's gonna have to seriously make the most of it, or we'll be looking at having a very expensive benchwarmer for the foreseeable future.

Totally agree. If it's not gonna work then I'd sooner we sell him for £50m (expecting to make a slight loss) and try and spend that money on a good quality CDM.

Timberwolf · Jun 24, 2020

JonnySpurs said:
Totally agree. If it's not gonna work then I'd sooner we sell him for £50m (expecting to make a slight loss) and try and spend that money on a good quality CDM.

As much as it pains me to say it, I have to agree. The other option would be to keep him around as a squad player until Mourinho leaves (which could easily happen within the next year or so). I'm pretty sure Tanguy is on some mega 6 year contract - a.k.a. the Levy special - so he'd still have plenty of time left even if he ends up marginalised for a year. And he'd probably get a fair share of gametime even if Jose hates him, due to injuries, rotation and whatnot.

However, he might be so jaded and broken by the time a new manager comes in that it won't matter.

Frozen_Waffles · Jun 24, 2020

I thought Kane was clear mom, some fantastic link up play and got his goal, a beauty of a pass to dele as well.

Quietly impressed by GLC, aurier and Sissoko. While dier looks like an experienced centre back.

Moura and dele still piss me off, especially moura, learn how to pass a ball to feet ffs.

But organisation and control was very impressive, I think we are starting to see Jose's affect on this team.

Bulletspur · Jun 24, 2020

parj said:
Delighted with today. Playing positive meant the whole team looked so much better. It might be West ham but have played shit against Norwich too and other similar teams.

We were lucky with first goal but our play deserved it. Kane had chances. He had service. I loved the fact players were positive on the ball and were showing options.

For me, GLC is MOTM. You just know when he plays he will make us play football. Love this guy already.

Lloris 7
Aurier 6
Dier 8
Sanchez 7
Davies 7
Sissoko 6.5 - did good job but sloppy with ball at times
GLC 9
Dele 7
Son 7
Lucas 7
Kane 8 - i was worried 20 mins but he really started to get involved. It feels like rolled back the clock 2 years once he got going. This Kane is fcuking immense.

Lamela 8 - he just got involved and tracked back. Win the ball back and was positive in his play to get it moving.
Bergwijn 7 - this guy is always looking a threat in front of goal. I thought he would have scored his chance (I know it wasn't easy) but he adds so much positivity to the team.
Winks not enough time

So Lucas Dele and Son all had a better game than Sissoko? What is your agenda? Or is that you do not quite understand Sissoko's role? Need clarification here!

Bulletspur · Jun 24, 2020

JonnySpurs said:
Must admit I'm struggling with Dele. On his day he can be so good and can often prove to be an excellent partner for Kane but right now he's offering very little.

If it meant getting more minutes for Ndombele then I'd rather see Lo Celso play higher up, supporting Kane - particularly considering how he played for Betis high up the pitch, and then Ndombele in CM with a CDM behind him.

Or just replace him with Lamela, simple

Timberwolf · Jun 24, 2020

Bulletspur said:
Or just replace him with Lamela, simple

If Lamela could actually stay fit and get 30+ starts in the league, I could see him getting a decent number of goals - probably at least 7-8 - which wouldn't be too far off Alli on current form. Plus he'd be contributing more to the team.

Still feel like we somehow need more in that position than either of them can offer, though.

anydange · Jun 24, 2020

Gio was excellent. Such a baller.

Dier, Sissoko, Aurier, Davies all had good games.

buckley · Jun 24, 2020

Not enough credit is given to the fact that history tells us that however West Ham are playing and whatever position in the table they are they almost always turn up for the spurs match . For me not enough credit is given for this victory against players that were giving their all but were ultimately not good enough or more likely we were better than given credit for and thus made them look worse than they actually are .

buckley · Jun 24, 2020

By the way Antonio has been a thorn in our side over the years but Dier had him for breakfast well played Eric.

parj · Jun 24, 2020

Bulletspur said:
So Lucas Dele and Son all had a better game than Sissoko? What is your agenda? Or is that you do not quite understand Sissoko's role? Need clarification here!

Why do I have an agenda if I didn't give sissoko a higher rating? I'm trying to think what kind of agenda you are implying?

In the match thread I even said I was excited by this line up and didn't mention sissoko as a weakness.

Bulletspur · Jun 25, 2020

parj said:
Why do I have an agenda if I didn't give sissoko a higher rating? I'm trying to think what kind of agenda you are implying?

In the match thread I even said I was excited by this line up and didn't mention sissoko as a weakness.

You might not have mentioned him as a weakness, but your end of match rating for him implied it, when compared to the higher ratings you gave Dele, Lucas and Son, who all had poor games.

ILS · Jun 25, 2020

buckley said:
By the way Antonio has been a thorn in our side over the years but Dier had him for breakfast well played Eric.

He did play well; however don't forget he got done by one long ball over the top as his body shape was wrong and Antonio got in and if he had any sort of composure he might of scored. If that had gone in his very good game would of been a decent game; this is the small margins in football.

mpickard2087 · Jun 25, 2020

ILS said:
He did play well; however don't forget he got done by one long ball over the top as his body shape was wrong and Antonio got in and if he had any sort of composure he might of scored. If that had gone in his very good game would of been a decent game; this is the small margins in football.

Bouncing ball or not I thought that was Lloris' to come and deal with, yes it was outside the area but the ball travelled so far that any sort of decent starting position and decisiveness and he deals with it comfortably. Plus he must have seen that Dier was a bit exposed and struggling in a foot race.

When the discussion is had about Lloris and any possible decline that's the sort of stuff that stands out for me. There were a couple of other occasions in game where I felt similar happened, and there are many more times these days where the ball has gone over the top and then I think or shout 'where is Hugo!?' as the situation plays out. Some of it may be getting older, or tactical instruction (though this was also happening under Poch), but even then there are a lot of times where it simply has to be goalkeepers ball and he isn't there.

ILS · Jun 25, 2020

mpickard2087 said:
Bouncing ball or not I thought that was Lloris' to come and deal with, yes it was outside the area but the ball travelled so far that any sort of decent starting position and decisiveness and he deals with it comfortably. Plus he must have seen that Dier was a bit exposed and struggling in a foot race.

When the discussion is had about Lloris and any possible decline that's the sort of stuff that stands out for me. There were a couple of other occasions in game where I felt similar happened, and there are many more times these days where the ball has gone over the top and then I think or shout 'where is Hugo!?' as the situation plays out. Some of it may be getting older, or tactical instruction (though this was also happening under Poch), but even then there are a lot of times where it simply has to be goalkeepers ball and he isn't there.

Fair points. I would guess it is instructions from Jose to keep deeper and not be as a aggressive in his starting positio. Maybe he has said trust Sanchez and Dier's pace?

davidmatzdorf · Jun 25, 2020

buckley said:
By the way Antonio has been a thorn in our side over the years but Dier had him for breakfast well played Eric.

I'm not quite sure how that works, but it sounds painful.

Pass the metaphor salsa, please.

davidmatzdorf · Jun 25, 2020

mpickard2087 said:
When the discussion is had about Lloris and any possible decline that's the sort of stuff that stands out for me. There were a couple of other occasions in game where I felt similar happened, and there are many more times these days where the ball has gone over the top and then I think or shout 'where is Hugo!?' as the situation plays out. Some of it may be getting older, or tactical instruction (though this was also happening under Poch), but even then there are a lot of times where it simply has to be goalkeepers ball and he isn't there.

I'm sure he's less fast than he was as a younger man, when he was the quickest goalkeeper I had ever seen.

I think a lot of what you are describing is down to altered tactics. Under Pochettino, we used to set up with a high, pressing defensive line in the majority of games and we would keep it there for the majority of each game. Lloris' station - his starting point - was a couple of metres further from his goal than most goalkeepers to adjust for this.

Now we play our defensive line in a conventional/average location, except for specific match situations, so Lloris is starting further back and covering the ball over the top constitutes a lower priority than it did previously.

brasil_spur · Jun 25, 2020

Frozen_Waffles said:
I thought Kane was clear mom, some fantastic link up play and got his goal, a beauty of a pass to dele as well.

Quietly impressed by GLC, aurier and Sissoko. While dier looks like an experienced centre back.

Moura and dele still piss me off, especially moura, learn how to pass a ball to feet ffs.

But organisation and control was very impressive, I think we are starting to see Jose's affect on this team.

Kane looked very leggy in the second half IMO. He took his goal well, but he was playing at 75% IMO - that being said 75% Kane is still better than most other strikers in the league.

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