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Club Statement 19 Nov 19 - Pochettino leaves

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doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
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72,169
I can't see anyone dominating the Premiership anytime soon.
A9C9FA24-E6DF-42AD-8EEC-8F4159F4E5E5.gif
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,985
81,902
Do love De Niro.

No one has won the Prem 3 times in a row since Utd 2006-09.

City have just won it twice in a row and despite having Guardiola as their manager and an extremely talented squad they were getting destroyed by Liverpool this season.

But with the strength in the league and the difficulties of competing in multiple competitions I can't see anyone dominating the league in a continuous way.
 

RichieS

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2004
11,916
16,436
In reality one of the best their sources saying they are unlikely to do any major deals this summer and even Werner could wait another summer and those who will leave will be replaced by academy players.

You are really overreacting.
Well done for continuing to fight the good fight. I don't know whether I have the energy anymore. It's like people just don't want to comprehend the following:

1) Liverpool are a much bigger club than us.
2) As a result of (1), Liverpool already had more money than us.
3) On top of that, Liverpool sold their best player for a ludicrous sum of money.
4) Liverpool used the readies in points (2) and/or (3) and the reputation in point (1) to pay huge sums of money for some top players*.

*and a better manager than us, but people really don't want to hear that.

FSG run Liverpool in pretty much exactly the same way ENIC run Spurs. In fact, they appointed Damien Comolli as soon as they took over and then proceeded to nick a number of our staff over the next few years, so I would be pretty confident in opining that they saw what ENIC were doing at Spurs as something of a blueprint.

We are now in a position to compete with them finanically but we weren't until last summer. We may never be able to compete on reputation.
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
1,933
3,878
Well done for continuing to fight the good fight. I don't know whether I have the energy anymore. It's like people just don't want to comprehend the following:

1) Liverpool are a much bigger club than us.
2) As a result of (1), Liverpool already had more money than us.
3) On top of that, Liverpool sold their best player for a ludicrous sum of money.
4) Liverpool used the readies in points (2) and/or (3) and the reputation in point (1) to pay huge sums of money for some top players*.

*and a better manager than us, but people really don't want to hear that.

FSG run Liverpool in pretty much exactly the same way ENIC run Spurs. In fact, they appointed Damien Comolli as soon as they took over and then proceeded to nick a number of our staff over the next few years, so I would be pretty confident in opining that they saw what ENIC were doing at Spurs as something of a blueprint.

We are now in a position to compete with them finanically but we weren't until last summer. We may never be able to compete on reputation.
Agree with reputation, we'd need to have an incredible century.
 

doctor stefan Freud

the tired tread of sad biology
Sep 2, 2013
15,170
72,169
Well done for continuing to fight the good fight. I don't know whether I have the energy anymore. It's like people just don't want to comprehend the following:

1) Liverpool are a much bigger club than us.
2) As a result of (1), Liverpool already had more money than us.
3) On top of that, Liverpool sold their best player for a ludicrous sum of money.
4) Liverpool used the readies in points (2) and/or (3) and the reputation in point (1) to pay huge sums of money for some top players*.

*and a better manager than us, but people really don't want to hear that.

FSG run Liverpool in pretty much exactly the same way ENIC run Spurs. In fact, they appointed Damien Comolli as soon as they took over and then proceeded to nick a number of our staff over the next few years, so I would be pretty confident in opining that they saw what ENIC were doing at Spurs as something of a blueprint.

We are now in a position to compete with them finanically but we weren't until last summer. We may never be able to compete on reputation.
I like this post. It’s well informed, measured yet subtly forceful with a frisson of arrogance that makes ladies go all gooey
 

RichieS

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2004
11,916
16,436
Agree with reputation, we'd need to have an incredible century.
20 years would do it imo (prior to Fergie, Manchester United were in the same boat as us). I don't think football works in 20 year "eras" anymore though. More like 3-5 year "cycles".
 

KikoSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
379
936
I can't see anyone dominating the Premiership anytime soon.

They might not dominate the Premiership but I can see their fans repeating for years to come how that team was fantastic and how they are the biggest team in the world and all that "ain't english I am scouse" and many other bs that we have to deal with. But it will bethat multiplied by 10.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
I love Poch and he did an absolutely fantastic job for us, but he needs to change his attitude towards winning trophies.

Firstly, don't make excuses about not winning trophies due to lack of investment. Even if it's true (much of the time it is), you're creating a ready made excuse, or mental block, for failure.

And DEFINITELY do not let your players know you're thinking that. That's the death-knell of any trophy winning opportunity!

I don't think it was a coincidence that we lost a number of winnable quarter, semi and finals matches, whilst Poch was in charge.

As a coach you have to be really careful how you mould your players' mentality.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,985
81,902
I love Poch and he did an absolutely fantastic job for us, but he needs to change his attitude towards winning trophies.

Firstly, don't make excuses about not winning trophies due to lack of investment. Even if it's true (much of the time it is), you're creating a ready made excuse, or mental block, for failure.

And DEFINITELY do not let your players know you're thinking that. That's the death-knell of any trophy winning opportunity!

I don't think it was a coincidence that we lost a number of winnable quarter, semi and finals matches, whilst Poch was in charge.

As a coach you have to be really careful how you mould your players' mentality.
I liked that Poch was open and communicative with the press. He created a really good atmosphere for the first 3 years of his time with us.

But it felt like once he felt down he couldn't hide it and what he started saying was at odds with the club and wouldn't have helped the players' mentality.

Poch is a smart guy and seems reflective in his approach. Hopefully he'll look back at his time and his actions and determine what worked and what didn't.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
I think whether Liverpool dominate over next couple of years, depends on the outcome of the CAS Appeal at FIFA.
If they lose that, they really will have no option but to sell, reduce wage bill and get in line, although not being in Europe could benefit them temporarily.
 

thekneaf

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
1,933
3,878
I love Poch and he did an absolutely fantastic job for us, but he needs to change his attitude towards winning trophies.

Firstly, don't make excuses about not winning trophies due to lack of investment. Even if it's true (much of the time it is), you're creating a ready made excuse, or mental block, for failure.

And DEFINITELY do not let your players know you're thinking that. That's the death-knell of any trophy winning opportunity!

I don't think it was a coincidence that we lost a number of winnable quarter, semi and finals matches, whilst Poch was in charge.

As a coach you have to be really careful how you mould your players' mentality.
Jose has talked about needing to breed some arrogance into the team.

The fire walking and all that nonsense was an awful preparation. It basically says winning is as impossible as walking on fire, but you can walk on fire! It presupposes that you don't believe you can. You should be straight up telling the team we go out to win because we earned it. We were tougher than Ajax, we dug deeper than them and we will do the same against liverpool. We absolutely deserve to be at the CL final and we will get there again. This is our level. We are in the elite. Instead we seemed to approach it like MK Dons who stumbled to an FA Cup final.

I truly loved Poch but he lost his head after the semi final.

Talking about chapters ending, and maybe leaving. What amazing motivation. Definitely not distracting for players.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
Jose has talked about needing to breed some arrogance into the team.

The fire walking and all that nonsense was an awful preparation. It basically says winning is as impossible as walking on fire, but you can walk on fire! It presupposes that you don't believe you can. You should be straight up telling the team we go out to win because we earned it. We were tougher than Ajax, we dug deeper than them and we will do the same against liverpool. We absolutely deserve to be at the CL final and we will get there again. This is our level. We are in the elite. Instead we seemed to approach it like MK Dons who stumbled to an FA Cup final.

I truly loved Poch but he lost his head after the semi final.

Talking about chapters ending, and maybe leaving. What amazing motivation. Definitely not distracting for players.

Yeah, I totally forgot about the distracting nonsense Poch was coming out with a few weeks before the final.

Not good.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
Jose has talked about needing to breed some arrogance into the team.

The fire walking and all that nonsense was an awful preparation. It basically says winning is as impossible as walking on fire, but you can walk on fire! It presupposes that you don't believe you can. You should be straight up telling the team we go out to win because we earned it. We were tougher than Ajax, we dug deeper than them and we will do the same against liverpool. We absolutely deserve to be at the CL final and we will get there again. This is our level. We are in the elite. Instead we seemed to approach it like MK Dons who stumbled to an FA Cup final.

I truly loved Poch but he lost his head after the semi final.

Talking about chapters ending, and maybe leaving. What amazing motivation. Definitely not distracting for players.

He lost his head 6 months before the final when he started pairing Winks and Sissoko in CM and we started an appalling run of form. That amazing second half come back against Ajax was more to do with Moura being on fire and Kane giving the players a HT roasting than any Poch tactics.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,341
87,796
He lost his head 6 months before the final when he started pairing Winks and Sissoko in CM and we started an appalling run of form. That amazing second half come back against Ajax was more to do with Moura being on fire and Kane giving the players a HT roasting than any Poch tactics.
Did he lose his head there, or was it that Dier and Wanyama were permanently injured and we sold Dembele, therefore had no one else to play? Was the poor away form down to the indefinable "losing the plot", or that the team was blowing out of its arse from March onwards.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
Did he lose his head there, or was it that Dier and Wanyama were permanently injured and we sold Dembele, therefore had no one else to play? Was the poor away form down to the indefinable "losing the plot", or that the team was blowing out of its arse from March onwards.

Got to agree with you that there was no other partnership to field.

That said, Poch was after De Jong and couldn't get him...but didn't seem to have an alternative in the whole of world football.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
Did he lose his head there, or was it that Dier and Wanyama were permanently injured and we sold Dembele, therefore had no one else to play? Was the poor away form down to the indefinable "losing the plot", or that the team was blowing out of its arse from March onwards.

I accept your points about the injuries and loss of Dembele, but for me it was more to do with his switch to a 4-4-2 with a midfield diamond that simply did not work. Especially with Winks at the base of it and Sissoko and Dele at the sides. It made us ponderous and predictable going forwards, and good teams cut though us quite easily. Compare Poch's last 20 games with Mourinho's first 20 and there was a stark difference in games won despite Mourinho not setting the world on fire. I think quite a few of our players had stopped playing for Poch around Feb / March 2019.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,341
87,796
I accept your points about the injuries and loss of Dembele, but for me it was more to do with his switch to a 4-4-2 with a midfield diamond that simply did not work. Especially with Winks at the base of it and Sissoko and Dele at the sides. It made us ponderous and predictable going forwards, and good teams cut though us quite easily. Compare Poch's last 20 games with Mourinho's first 20 and there was a stark difference in games won despite Mourinho not setting the world on fire. I think quite a few of our players had stopped playing for Poch around Feb / March 2019.
I would again contest that, pointing directly to the champions league fight backs as evidence.

If we're talking about just this season then I'd agree. But last season's issues were directly attributed to not strengthening the squad in the previous summer. Poche was left trying to find what was workable. Jose himself has said that sissoko isn't a 6 or a double 6. He's a double 8.
 

ClintEastwould

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2012
4,748
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There were a few months where the diamond was really working and we were kicking ass. Everton away and Arsenal away at the cup were the prime examples. Everyone got injured again and we fell apart starting in January 2019. I don’t think the formation was the main culprit.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,679
104,956
He lost his head 6 months before the final when he started pairing Winks and Sissoko in CM and we started an appalling run of form. That amazing second half come back against Ajax was more to do with Moura being on fire and Kane giving the players a HT roasting than any Poch tactics.

Agree with the first sentence but the second is definitely wrong. The Athletic article the other week detailed the changes he made at half time. Came from Rose and some analytics dude.
 
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