Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
- 38,247
- 104,143
Quite a few sources say Tanganga is currently on around £1k a week and I'd imagine a fair few reserve and u21 players up and down the league are on similar wages
Premier League wage stand-off showing the very worst of football as angry players stand defiant against owners
- Thread starter mawspurs
- Start date
Quite a few sources say Tanganga is currently on around £1k a week and I'd imagine a fair few reserve and u21 players up and down the league are on similar wages
yiddopaul
Well-Known Member
- Dec 28, 2005
- 3,447
- 6,734
Players don't live in the real world (we knew that anyway). If my company stops making money, eventually they will start letting people go, they won't consult with me and ask if I mind. They won't get my permission if they want to give me a pay cut. My faith in the business of football and footballers has - like many on here I'm sure - been on the decline for quite some time. This has really left a bad taste in my mouth, and some bad feeling towards players. While the rest of the world struggles to pay bills, feed their families, keep their jobs, these non essential and lets be honest, non important people, throw their toys around because they may have to survive on only 50k p/w. Are they even aware this is a global crisis. This time that we're in shows how irrelevant their little 'job' is.
Unfortunately this is not an option, certainly not in top 2 or 3 divisions.
The players, like anybody else in the country, can refuse to be furloughed.
Club then have 2 options. Make the player redundant, pay off his full contract, and he is free to join another club, and the clubs as well as paying off the player, lose an asset from the balance sheet for nothing, or alternatively back-down
davidmatzdorf
Front Page Gadfly
- Jun 7, 2004
- 18,106
- 45,030
The players are not employees and the clubs cannot do this.
McFlash
In the corner, eating crayons.
- Oct 19, 2005
- 12,874
- 45,988
Surely the players need to be protecting their clubs? I mean, the clubs are currently losing money hand over fist and there are plenty of clubs that just cannot afford to do that.
Yes, giving the money to the NHS is a nice idea but if I'm honest, the government are doing that. If players want to make donations, like Rose has, that's brilliant but I don't see why the clubs should be paying them a full wage.
They aren't playing, they are training a lot less and aren't doing any promotional/sponsorship stuff.
Reducing their wages for a couple of months could greatly help out their clubs and let's face it, it's not going to cripple the players.
Yes, giving the money to the NHS is a nice idea but if I'm honest, the government are doing that. If players want to make donations, like Rose has, that's brilliant but I don't see why the clubs should be paying them a full wage.
They aren't playing, they are training a lot less and aren't doing any promotional/sponsorship stuff.
Reducing their wages for a couple of months could greatly help out their clubs and let's face it, it's not going to cripple the players.
wrd
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2014
- 13,603
- 58,005
I was confused by that NHS players thing, it seemed a decent headline but lacked any actual numbers and seemed to allow players to pick and choose whether they even put anything in whatsoever.
It's also disappointing to see how little the players care for the clubs that pay obscene wages which for me goes beyond a company simply paying the wages of an employer.
McFlash
In the corner, eating crayons.
- Oct 19, 2005
- 12,874
- 45,988
Exactly, it almost seemed as though they were looking for excuses, not trying to help their employers.
If I was on 100k per week and had to drop to 70k, for a couple of months to help financially assist my employer through a tricky time, one that is completely out of anyone's control, I'd like to think that I wouldn't hesitate to do so.
All this "we'd happily give it direct to the NHS" made no sense and smacked of trying to win popularity with the public.
Phantom
Well-Known Member
- Jun 6, 2005
- 5,863
- 3,243
It seems that the 30% offer/suggestion/starting point is what has put some players noses out of joint, to an extent I could see where Rooney was coming from. In so far as they have been delivered a number without seemingly any discussions which has put all of the pressure on them. I don't believe his argument holds any credibility when we are talking about a typical Premier leagues player salary. There are some exceptions, the junior players of the squad, they could require a level of protection from the cut and I am sure there will be some consideration for a cut off point or some such.
In fact the information from BBC and other places seemed to suggest that the cut was conditional i.e not applied in a blanket manner and that players WOULD be consulted on it. So it seems some players reacted to the news by not reading the details behind it!
The way I took the 30% figure, was that this is the sort of scale of saving the clubs need players to consider. There are going to be players who would accept that and others that wont.
What is clearly unacceptable and damaging is for the players to do nothing or only defer wages.
In fact the information from BBC and other places seemed to suggest that the cut was conditional i.e not applied in a blanket manner and that players WOULD be consulted on it. So it seems some players reacted to the news by not reading the details behind it!
The way I took the 30% figure, was that this is the sort of scale of saving the clubs need players to consider. There are going to be players who would accept that and others that wont.
What is clearly unacceptable and damaging is for the players to do nothing or only defer wages.
wrd
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2014
- 13,603
- 58,005
Completely agree, it's difficult because it's easy for me to sit here with nothing and say if I had a lot I'd do the right thing and that makes the whole conversation a challenging proposition to begin with but I'm absolutely stunned the way this has gone in it's entirety.
The whole thing is a mess
I felt that the whole argument was started by the press question Hancock about footballers and nobody else stunk of classicism in the sense that it was footballers who typically come from working class backgrounds being put on the griddle and not the likes of people who own hedge funds and what not. Instead we were going after footballers who as I understand it in the UK pay 50% on their wages because most of them are on PAYE and thus they were already doing their bit to help the NHS more so than those with their offshore accounts and tax evasions. So I was already conflicted there because I do believe footballers are in a position to help but then embroiled myself in analysing that situation with some whataboutism.
Then instead of arguing their case about their taxes they came out with the PR of the players fund which felt like a well worded but ultimately ambiguous piece as it was not clear whatsoever what they were actually doing. Obviously the likes of Danny Rose are an exception.
In the midst of this we had owners putting pressure on players by saying they had to cut wages basically unless players helped out which put the players in the firing line. Understandably I can see why the players would resent their clubs but I'm amazed it got to that point and players and clubs couldn't come to an agreement to protect institutions that have been very good to them in the first place. That based on what players were earning they couldn't come up with a Tier system for players deferring their wages, so the likes of Tanganga weren't getting fucked but that clubs were saving money.
And then I wonder how we as fans have a part to play in this. We have some responsibility don't we? that we allow these clubs and players to carry on and let this amount of money be in the game by seeing this behaviour and continuing to be fans, putting our own money in. It makes me feel shit that I justified people earning this amount of money for kicking a ball because they were worth what we were willing to pay.
A lot of players are about to lose their "legendary" status. Can't say I'm surprised, but I am disappointed. They are willing enough to do the odd photo shoot at a hospital (like they have a say in the matter anyway), but that is for free. The second they have to give up a little to support the source of their immense wealth, they start going sour about it. I don't care how it was presented. Unless they are oblivious to the fact that the little people at the club are already on 80% of their tiny wages (in comparison).
I will just add, that I was planning to renegotiate my earnings at the end of the current shool year, but my priority now is to keep the company going, so I will have to knuckle down and be patient.
I will just add, that I was planning to renegotiate my earnings at the end of the current shool year, but my priority now is to keep the company going, so I will have to knuckle down and be patient.
yiddopaul
Well-Known Member
- Dec 28, 2005
- 3,447
- 6,734
If football went bust because of this. If the PL fell apart. I honestly would not care less, one bit. I love my beloved Tottenham. But this virus has brought a lot of perspective. Tottenham are not my life. They are a part of it, and a big part of my entertainment outlet. I would survive happily without Spurs, or the PL and all that entails. I would simply up my other loves like photography. I would spend more time with family on 'match days'. I would be stress free for 9 months a year. Football IS NOT IMPORTANT, not even close. Music has more to offer than football. This could all end relatively very bad for these over paid footballers.
spursfan77
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2005
- 46,680
- 104,957
The players have to be careful. Fans won’t take kindly to their clubs struggling and not buying players when the window opens. We’ve seen that first hand. Once the majority of fans realise it’s because the transfer budgets have gone on the players wages whilst there’s been no matches then the players and not the clubs will be in the firing line.
McFlash
In the corner, eating crayons.
- Oct 19, 2005
- 12,874
- 45,988
Yep, players need to realise that without the clubs and fans, they are nothing.
Too many of them have got far too big for their fucking boots.
Smokinhotspur
Well-Known Member
- Jun 11, 2012
- 510
- 953
Wow! Really interesting reading the myriad of views on this. This is going to be a long one so please bear with me.
Let me start by saying I live out in Germany and as most have observed, the Germans have been better prepared than most other countries with regards to readiness to deal with covid through early ramping up of testing capacity amongst other measures that has led to a much lower number of deaths. We have a govt in the UK that was behind the curve (like quite a few others) and as a result has come under increasing pressure especially from the press on why testing capabilities are so low, sufficient PPE is not available to the brave souls battling this on the frontline etc. Under severe scrutiny and pressure about the govt's preparedness (and rightly so), the health secretary does what many slimy politicians do and takes the opportunity to deflect the attention by calling out premier league footballers and the need for them to play their role.
Now, in this world of information overload, clickbait and fast moving 24 hour news where critical details are easily lost, the sequence of events is very important. The comment Hancock gave was AFTER Newcastle and our beloved club took the decision to furlough non-playing staff and cut their pay by 20% by taking advantage of a scheme which was most certainly not designed for premier league clubs! The decision these clubs took is what triggered the response from politicians and the ensuing bile and criticism that was aimed at premier league footballers which I for one find extremely unfair especially when talks were already ongoing within football on how to manage the situation.
Discussions remained ongoing between the PL, clubs and the PFA on how to solve the impending financial impact on football but rather than continue these discussions behind closed doors and aim to reach an amicable agreement, what did the PL (in agreement with the clubs) decide to do? Of course they jumped on the bandwagon and decided to ride off the back of the health secretary's comments and the increasing disdain for footballers in the general public and put out that statement that alluded to the 30% package of cuts/deferrals for PL players that was not pre-aligned with the PFA. Thus, effectively throwing the players under the bus and making them the fall guys. The PL also took the opportunity to announce their £20m contribution to the NHS (which in reality is a paltry sum when you think of how much money goes through that organisation) as media spin to show their willingness to play their role.
Now, there are a lot of people in other sports, walks of life that have done very well for themselves so one has to ask why the micro focus on footballers? What about the golfers, tennis players, F1 drivers, bankers that got us into the last financial crisis, hedge fund traders, CEOs, movie stars, A list musicians etc.. etc.. Is anybody else interested in the role these well to do members of our society have to play? While we are at it, what about our dear billionaire owner on his yacht on the Bahamas? What role is he playing in trying to help secure the future of the club through this period? Could he also dip his hand into his pocket?
I'll tell you what it is. It is pure prejudice towards these lads from a working class background who have dared do well for themselves in life with their big mansions and flash cars (some of them). Reading some of the comments above, it sounds like we love to watch them on a Sat afternoon to get our footie fix but deep down we despise them and what they have achieved for themselves and their families. Hence, we are only too keen to jump on the bandwagon and label them selfish, overpaid footballers that do nothing better than kick a ball around. Their talent, dedication, skills are underplayed in a way that is not done to those in other walks of life that I mentioned above because those are somehow deemed more worthy. I commend the Players Together initiative for the NHS and I am sure in time we will hear about other ways that the players will contribute to managing the crisis especially with respect to the impact on their respective football clubs.
I know a couple of PL players (now retired) and through them got to meet other players either in night clubs on a Sat night or on holidays after the season. Amidst the champagne lifestyle that some (not all) live, people will be surprised at the scale of charitable initiatives that many of these lads get involved with. A lot of these are very personal to them and are done in the background anonymously without all the fanfare and deliberately kept out of the media even though they would benefit from the PR. What Danny Rose did is very commendable (and I can only wonder how that got out into the press but let's leave that bit, he did a good deed) but trust me this is a mere drop compared to some of the things other players do/have done in the past that I personally know about. I am not talking about one-off contributions but long term projects over the course of careers and beyond that require significant financial and time commitment.
Now to the solution and as usual we have to look to the continent for best practice. The strategy of trying to get a unified PL approach was all wrong from the start. The measures the likes of Man City/ Man Utd/ Chelsea need to take will be completely different from the likes of Bournemouth, Norwich, Burnley etc. This is a matter that needs to be handled behind closed doors on a club by club basis and this is how the likes of Barcelona, Juventus and Bayern Munich have been able to tackle this and come to an agreement that includes their players much quicker. Southampton and West Ham cottoned on and have quickly come to agreements with their players. This is what we and other PL clubs need to do.
I will finish by saying I am proud of our club in finally reversing its decision to furlough staff. It still leaves a bitter taste that the club had to be put under so much pressure for so many days effectively dragged kicking and screaming before doing the right thing. Others like Bournemouth have also followed which is good and of course we won't hold our breath on Newcastle and Mike Cashley who only wants to get his money out of football as quickly as possible. To think that our club's name was being spoken in the same breath as Ashley and Newcastle is what a disastrous own goal like the furlough decision can do. We also suffered the double whammy that the great work the club is doing in re-purposing the stadium for use in tackling the covid crisis, helping with food distribution etc unfortunately got lost in all the mayhem.
I also leave you with the recent interview from our England captain about 'not wanting to hang around for the sake of it and the need to achieve things in his career if he feels the club is not moving in the right direction'. The timing of the interview and the resulting transfer links to Man Utd are no accident. I wonder how much impact the way our club has handled this situation has had on his thinking about his future and what type of club he wants to spend the rest of his career with.
Hopefully the club has learnt a painful lesson that will not be repeated. Footballers are humans like the rest of us and let's all be mindful of this when we choose to make judgments on their lives based on limited information that is meant to whip up hysteria and sow division in society.
Hope we get through this horrific situation as a nation with as little sickness and death as possible. After this is all over, I personally can't wait for the next time I get to see the lads run out doing their best to represent our great club. In the meantime stay well and healthy folks. COYS!!!!!!
Let me start by saying I live out in Germany and as most have observed, the Germans have been better prepared than most other countries with regards to readiness to deal with covid through early ramping up of testing capacity amongst other measures that has led to a much lower number of deaths. We have a govt in the UK that was behind the curve (like quite a few others) and as a result has come under increasing pressure especially from the press on why testing capabilities are so low, sufficient PPE is not available to the brave souls battling this on the frontline etc. Under severe scrutiny and pressure about the govt's preparedness (and rightly so), the health secretary does what many slimy politicians do and takes the opportunity to deflect the attention by calling out premier league footballers and the need for them to play their role.
Now, in this world of information overload, clickbait and fast moving 24 hour news where critical details are easily lost, the sequence of events is very important. The comment Hancock gave was AFTER Newcastle and our beloved club took the decision to furlough non-playing staff and cut their pay by 20% by taking advantage of a scheme which was most certainly not designed for premier league clubs! The decision these clubs took is what triggered the response from politicians and the ensuing bile and criticism that was aimed at premier league footballers which I for one find extremely unfair especially when talks were already ongoing within football on how to manage the situation.
Discussions remained ongoing between the PL, clubs and the PFA on how to solve the impending financial impact on football but rather than continue these discussions behind closed doors and aim to reach an amicable agreement, what did the PL (in agreement with the clubs) decide to do? Of course they jumped on the bandwagon and decided to ride off the back of the health secretary's comments and the increasing disdain for footballers in the general public and put out that statement that alluded to the 30% package of cuts/deferrals for PL players that was not pre-aligned with the PFA. Thus, effectively throwing the players under the bus and making them the fall guys. The PL also took the opportunity to announce their £20m contribution to the NHS (which in reality is a paltry sum when you think of how much money goes through that organisation) as media spin to show their willingness to play their role.
Now, there are a lot of people in other sports, walks of life that have done very well for themselves so one has to ask why the micro focus on footballers? What about the golfers, tennis players, F1 drivers, bankers that got us into the last financial crisis, hedge fund traders, CEOs, movie stars, A list musicians etc.. etc.. Is anybody else interested in the role these well to do members of our society have to play? While we are at it, what about our dear billionaire owner on his yacht on the Bahamas? What role is he playing in trying to help secure the future of the club through this period? Could he also dip his hand into his pocket?
I'll tell you what it is. It is pure prejudice towards these lads from a working class background who have dared do well for themselves in life with their big mansions and flash cars (some of them). Reading some of the comments above, it sounds like we love to watch them on a Sat afternoon to get our footie fix but deep down we despise them and what they have achieved for themselves and their families. Hence, we are only too keen to jump on the bandwagon and label them selfish, overpaid footballers that do nothing better than kick a ball around. Their talent, dedication, skills are underplayed in a way that is not done to those in other walks of life that I mentioned above because those are somehow deemed more worthy. I commend the Players Together initiative for the NHS and I am sure in time we will hear about other ways that the players will contribute to managing the crisis especially with respect to the impact on their respective football clubs.
I know a couple of PL players (now retired) and through them got to meet other players either in night clubs on a Sat night or on holidays after the season. Amidst the champagne lifestyle that some (not all) live, people will be surprised at the scale of charitable initiatives that many of these lads get involved with. A lot of these are very personal to them and are done in the background anonymously without all the fanfare and deliberately kept out of the media even though they would benefit from the PR. What Danny Rose did is very commendable (and I can only wonder how that got out into the press but let's leave that bit, he did a good deed) but trust me this is a mere drop compared to some of the things other players do/have done in the past that I personally know about. I am not talking about one-off contributions but long term projects over the course of careers and beyond that require significant financial and time commitment.
Now to the solution and as usual we have to look to the continent for best practice. The strategy of trying to get a unified PL approach was all wrong from the start. The measures the likes of Man City/ Man Utd/ Chelsea need to take will be completely different from the likes of Bournemouth, Norwich, Burnley etc. This is a matter that needs to be handled behind closed doors on a club by club basis and this is how the likes of Barcelona, Juventus and Bayern Munich have been able to tackle this and come to an agreement that includes their players much quicker. Southampton and West Ham cottoned on and have quickly come to agreements with their players. This is what we and other PL clubs need to do.
I will finish by saying I am proud of our club in finally reversing its decision to furlough staff. It still leaves a bitter taste that the club had to be put under so much pressure for so many days effectively dragged kicking and screaming before doing the right thing. Others like Bournemouth have also followed which is good and of course we won't hold our breath on Newcastle and Mike Cashley who only wants to get his money out of football as quickly as possible. To think that our club's name was being spoken in the same breath as Ashley and Newcastle is what a disastrous own goal like the furlough decision can do. We also suffered the double whammy that the great work the club is doing in re-purposing the stadium for use in tackling the covid crisis, helping with food distribution etc unfortunately got lost in all the mayhem.
I also leave you with the recent interview from our England captain about 'not wanting to hang around for the sake of it and the need to achieve things in his career if he feels the club is not moving in the right direction'. The timing of the interview and the resulting transfer links to Man Utd are no accident. I wonder how much impact the way our club has handled this situation has had on his thinking about his future and what type of club he wants to spend the rest of his career with.
Hopefully the club has learnt a painful lesson that will not be repeated. Footballers are humans like the rest of us and let's all be mindful of this when we choose to make judgments on their lives based on limited information that is meant to whip up hysteria and sow division in society.
Hope we get through this horrific situation as a nation with as little sickness and death as possible. After this is all over, I personally can't wait for the next time I get to see the lads run out doing their best to represent our great club. In the meantime stay well and healthy folks. COYS!!!!!!
Last edited:
Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
- 38,247
- 104,143
Absolutely superb post.
Lo Amo Speroni
Only been in match thread once.
- Aug 9, 2010
- 1,995
- 5,662
PL may go bust but football will still be played.
Tiberius Gracchus
Well-Known Member
- Jan 22, 2004
- 746
- 1,822
Just can't understand the mentality of people saying they wouldn't care if Spurs went under - I'd be absolutely devastated
Yid-ol
Just-outside Edinburgh
- Jan 16, 2006
- 31,160
- 19,399
TBF I pop on here once every two or three days. I haven't missed football, which is rather surprising. Like you said, this virus has brought a lot of perspective into people's lives.
theShiznit
Well-Known Member
- Jul 26, 2004
- 17,883
- 23,939
Can't help but think that the players (or more to the point the agents) are using this as an opportunity to 'make bank'
We've already seen Toby's agent has said that if the clubs reneg on contracts that the players can leave for free, and i feel that's what they are ultimately after; that freedom of movement after all this is over.
Could you imagine the chaos of an IPL style bidding scheme for All premiership players when football eventually resumes (and not just with foreign players like the IPL)
That would probably be one of the most watched sporting events in Premiership history.
It's short-termism by the players and the agents though as it will drive another wedge between players and fans, meaning more pressure on them to perform and being quicker to turn on them when they don't. Also most players will be worse off after this is over, even more so if they do nothing to help the clubs.
We've already seen Toby's agent has said that if the clubs reneg on contracts that the players can leave for free, and i feel that's what they are ultimately after; that freedom of movement after all this is over.
Could you imagine the chaos of an IPL style bidding scheme for All premiership players when football eventually resumes (and not just with foreign players like the IPL)
That would probably be one of the most watched sporting events in Premiership history.
It's short-termism by the players and the agents though as it will drive another wedge between players and fans, meaning more pressure on them to perform and being quicker to turn on them when they don't. Also most players will be worse off after this is over, even more so if they do nothing to help the clubs.
