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Furloughing staff

NEVILLEB

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
6,733
6,335
These staff are the soul of the club and contribute so much. It’s an embarrassing and distasteful decision to immediately cut their wages and push them onto the public.

We won’t win anything with Enic.
 

Jaffer99

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2012
365
635
We keep posting record profits.

We have a billionaire owner.

We are an incredibly cash rich club.

I would be surprised if the wage bill for our 550 non-playing staff would exceed £3m for 3 months - the equivalent of paying our playing staff for a week.

We can easily afford it, we’re just choosing not to, and in the process causing 550 people living in low wages in one of the most expensive cities in the world worry about paying their bills unnecessarily.

Fully aware of how furloughing works and what the business case is, before any of the junior Duncan Bannatynes on here start explaining it to me.

I just think it fucking stinks.

This just makes us look tight bastards, who only care about the CEO, the rest of the staff can go screw themselves...
 

Wsussexspur

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2007
8,918
10,176

Not sure about this... When I saw the headline I was like WTF! Just get Levy out of our club as soon as possible. But having read what I can of the article Im not to sure what to make of it... One thing is im sure this will just be a handful of ground staff as surely majority are still needed to maintain pitch and training ground.
 

pelayo59

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2019
1,035
4,588

Not sure about this... When I saw the headline I was like WTF! Just get Levy out of our club as soon as possible. But having read what I can of the article Im not to sure what to make of it... One thing is im sure this will just be a handful of ground staff as surely majority are still needed to maintain pitch and training ground.

Can you show the whole article?
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031

Not sure about this... When I saw the headline I was like WTF! Just get Levy out of our club as soon as possible. But having read what I can of the article Im not to sure what to make of it... One thing is im sure this will just be a handful of ground staff as surely majority are still needed to maintain pitch and training ground.

Love it when people say “get Levy out of my club”. Always just imagine him turning round like the meme sloth and just saying...

1586279436677.jpeg
 

pagevee

Ehhhh, What's up Doc?
Oct 4, 2006
644
147
Reread the Chairman's statement to make sure I was clear. I am in the USA so trying to understand what furlough means versus unemployment benefits of Leave benefits in USA.

My understanding is that furlough guarantees Government funds at 80% of regular pay AND guarantees job protection for an unknown time period. Unemployment Benefits guarantee eligible pay rates for 6 months if actively seeking new employment at a reduced rate with a max payout of around $15 per hour. You can choose to have taxes withheld or not, your choice. Additionally, job is lost, Cobra insurance benefits eligible if applicable (translation = high premiums). Short term Leave guarantees job placement in similar position but does not guarantee any income, insurance premiums may be the same or Cobra levels but I am not sure which (I think that is company decision).

Statement specifically mentions furlough decision made to guarantee job placement of the employees. This Covid-19 health pandemic has created an economic crisis of CASH liquidity. Using government funds to provide all 550 employees with the peace of mind for their job security while reducing the cashflow output is a win-win. The 20% drop can be provided at a later time when more information is available. Levy voluntarily dropped his pay by over 14,000+ pounds a week. The other Directors have voluntarily dropped their pay by 20% to match. The Directors paycuts probably come close to equaling the 550 furlough package savings.

The difference being that going on furlough requires the job protection of the employees. In the US people are not just losing their income in unprecedented numbers, they're losing their jobs with no known replacement. I understand the optics of the employees losing some of their income; however, I would rather lose a portion of my pay while retaining my job security. Additionally, someone mentioned earlier that if you were out sick or your hours were cut, you would no longer be eligible for the job protection. If that is true, then placing everyone on furlough prior to sickleave and work schedules being canceled is actually a more humanitarian decision to make. You guarantee MORE jobs when waiting a few weeks reduces the number of staff you are forced to retain after the crisis stabilizes.

A cynical decision would be to cut your own/directors pay in order to pay the full pay to the 550 staff at 100% for a few months. This could effectively cost the club little but when the crisis is stable, you are free to layoff as many of the 550 employees as you need to operate in the new ecosystem. Some of you seem to be Unintentionally encouraging and applauding the cynical behavior.

I would personally choose short term pain for long term guarantees everyday. I am cynical and any job guarantee in this environment is in the employees benefit. This is a cashflow problem and this program seems ideally suited to help all participants. 80% of nothing is still 0, 80% of something plus the guarantee of a return to normal is much greater than 0.

I may be wrong but I don't think this aspect is being fully appreciated. I would agree that I would rather Levy/Directors take a 30% cut in order to prop up the lost 20% for the lower rung of employees. I would agree that I would rather the players voluntarily take a similar 20% cut to help prop up the lost 20%. I think not propping up the 20% immediately is a PR mistake but placing people on furlough which guarantees their job prospects is the responsible decision. I personally feel for any employee who's job is not protected because they can be lost. There will be a new normal, it will not look the same as it did. People have already lost jobs, they would snatch the 80% plus job protection out of your hands right now if offered. Again, Levy did not make the best decision; however, he did not screw over his employees. I tend to believe they realize this and appreciate his commitment to protecting their jobs. I apologize for the rant but the furlough you guys describe is far from the worst case scenario others are experiencing. Honestly, it is far from the worst I have experienced in my life/career. Which is why I changed career paths in an attempt to never be in that position again. I wish life would resume so none of this was necessary, but reality is not so kind. I hope this rant has provided some insight and perspective to the conversation. Regards and best of health to you all!
 

joelstinton14

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2011
1,295
3,429
Can you show the whole article?

Article:
Daniel Levy has given consideration to putting Tottenham Hotspur ground staff who have not been furloughed to work at his private Hertfordshire estate during the coronavirus crisis.
Tottenham insist that chairman Levy would pay any staff he uses privately himself, rather than through their Spurs salary, as the club attempt to keep employees in work.
Levy and Spurs have come under fire for pushing ahead with 80 per cent wage cuts for their 550 non-playing staff, around half of whom have been furloughed, during April and May.
Members of staff have been upset by the measures, believing they are being treated differently to employees at other Premier League clubs. Norwich City and Bournemouth are both making up the shortfall in wages for furloughed staff.
But Levy has stressed that the decision to cut wages and furlough staff has been made to protect jobs for the future and fight the threat of redundancies further down the line.
As part of his desire to keep as much of his staff working as possible, consideration has been given to Levy topping up the hours of Tottenham’s ground staff by using them at his home.
Levy lives in Hertfordshire at a residence which people who have visited say has expansive grounds.


While the pitch at Tottenham’s £1 billion stadium will need to be maintained during the coronavirus crisis, there is not currently the need to prepare it for matches with the Premier League suspended indefinitely.
The club’s Enfield training ground is also shut to all but essential staff, with players training at home, which means there is less work to do on the pitches there.
Levy signalled his intent to push on with the furloughs and wage cuts, which include himself and the Tottenham board, as staff received a second email outlining their new terms of employment.
Those being furloughed have been told not to answer club-related calls or emails for April and May, and have been advised to turn off Tottenham devices, while those remaining in work have been asked to sign a document agreeing to the change to their salaries and contracts.
A source told Telegraph Sport: “People are angry and upset. Many are worried about their mortgages and other bills. Other clubs have furloughed staff, but at least they have agreed to top up their wages.”
The Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust attempted to make one final plea for Levy to change his mind by posting a message on social media that read: “We have been saying consistently @SpursOfficial - pause and rethink. We are now saying it clearly and in public - do not further damage the club’s reputation, listen to your fans.”
But there has not been any indication that Spurs are planning to follow Liverpool in reversing their decision to furlough non-football staff.


P.S don't subscribe to the Telegraph (Don't hate me), signed up for a few free articles a month to read Film reviews.
 

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,290
66,758
I am very confused as to why footballers contracts can't be furloughed but everyone elses can. Surely they are simply employees of the club? I mean, yeah, the limit on flowering is 80% or up to £2,500, so it would be up to the clubs to decide if they wanted to top up any, but if they are that concerned that they need to start putting club and stadium staff on furbies, making every cut possible, then that would surely also include the players.

Yet here they are, apparently not furrowable for some strange reason. They are the best equipped to do it too - are you telling me none of them have any savings at all? Most of the staff laid off probably have no savings but they also have very little opportunity to build up those savings. Players do.

Football is going to be a very different place after this. I've lost a lot of respect for a lot of players. There's nothing stopping any of them from declaring they are willing to take the cut - I get that the PFA have said their piece but being considered a scab by the PFA and it's associates isn't comparable to the miners in the 80s that people will inevitably compare it to if someone does break ranks.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
I am very confused as to why footballers contracts can't be furloughed but everyone elses can. Surely they are simply employees of the club? I mean, yeah, the limit on flowering is 80% or up to £2,500, so it would be up to the clubs to decide if they wanted to top up any, but if they are that concerned that they need to start putting club and stadium staff on furbies, making every cut possible, then that would surely also include the players.

Yet here they are, apparently not furrowable for some strange reason. They are the best equipped to do it too - are you telling me none of them have any savings at all? Most of the staff laid off probably have no savings but they also have very little opportunity to build up those savings. Players do.

Football is going to be a very different place after this. I've lost a lot of respect for a lot of players. There's nothing stopping any of them from declaring they are willing to take the cut - I get that the PFA have said their piece but being considered a scab by the PFA and it's associates isn't comparable to the miners in the 80s that people will inevitably compare it to if someone does break ranks.

Because the players could then walk away for nothing if they choose through breach of contract, and could still sue for the wages down the line if they choose, as they have fixed term contracts.
Clubs have 4 options in respect of players, pay in full, try and negotiate a reduce payment with the players, default on contract, and lose the player for nothing (and still potentially have to pay down the line) or go into administration
 
Last edited:

Rocksuperstar

Isn't this fun? Isn't fun the best thing to have?
Jun 6, 2005
53,290
66,758
Because the players could then walk away for nothing if they choose through breach of contract, and could still sue for the wages down the line if they choose, as they have fixed term contracts.
Clubs have 4 options in respect of players, pay in full, try and negotiate a reduce payment with the players, default on contract, and lose the player for nothing (and still potentially have to pay down the line) or go into administration

Would there be any clause written into a contract for a player that you wouldn't find in a normal employee - lets say a member of the sales team - that caters to this sort of global pandemic? These are unique circumstances, and I would love to see a player try to take a Premier League club to court over wages over this. Sure, they would likely win, but that's a Sol Campbell level of sickness if you're going to do that, imo.

Everyone is making do, everyone is having to find new ways to do shit, the fact that footballers are choosing to hoard their fortunes and demand their wages continue - that might not be possible and they need to accept that, just like every one of us has.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,956
These staff are the soul of the club and contribute so much. It’s an embarrassing and distasteful decision to immediately cut their wages and push them onto the public.

We won’t win anything with Enic.

Really? Aren’t they just mainly shop staff and stewards. Hardly the life blood of the club.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,956
Reread the Chairman's statement to make sure I was clear. I am in the USA so trying to understand what furlough means versus unemployment benefits of Leave benefits in USA.

My understanding is that furlough guarantees Government funds at 80% of regular pay AND guarantees job protection for an unknown time period. Unemployment Benefits guarantee eligible pay rates for 6 months if actively seeking new employment at a reduced rate with a max payout of around $15 per hour. You can choose to have taxes withheld or not, your choice. Additionally, job is lost, Cobra insurance benefits eligible if applicable (translation = high premiums). Short term Leave guarantees job placement in similar position but does not guarantee any income, insurance premiums may be the same or Cobra levels but I am not sure which (I think that is company decision).

Statement specifically mentions furlough decision made to guarantee job placement of the employees. This Covid-19 health pandemic has created an economic crisis of CASH liquidity. Using government funds to provide all 550 employees with the peace of mind for their job security while reducing the cashflow output is a win-win. The 20% drop can be provided at a later time when more information is available. Levy voluntarily dropped his pay by over 14,000+ pounds a week. The other Directors have voluntarily dropped their pay by 20% to match. The Directors paycuts probably come close to equaling the 550 furlough package savings.

The difference being that going on furlough requires the job protection of the employees. In the US people are not just losing their income in unprecedented numbers, they're losing their jobs with no known replacement. I understand the optics of the employees losing some of their income; however, I would rather lose a portion of my pay while retaining my job security. Additionally, someone mentioned earlier that if you were out sick or your hours were cut, you would no longer be eligible for the job protection. If that is true, then placing everyone on furlough prior to sickleave and work schedules being canceled is actually a more humanitarian decision to make. You guarantee MORE jobs when waiting a few weeks reduces the number of staff you are forced to retain after the crisis stabilizes.

A cynical decision would be to cut your own/directors pay in order to pay the full pay to the 550 staff at 100% for a few months. This could effectively cost the club little but when the crisis is stable, you are free to layoff as many of the 550 employees as you need to operate in the new ecosystem. Some of you seem to be Unintentionally encouraging and applauding the cynical behavior.

I would personally choose short term pain for long term guarantees everyday. I am cynical and any job guarantee in this environment is in the employees benefit. This is a cashflow problem and this program seems ideally suited to help all participants. 80% of nothing is still 0, 80% of something plus the guarantee of a return to normal is much greater than 0.

I may be wrong but I don't think this aspect is being fully appreciated. I would agree that I would rather Levy/Directors take a 30% cut in order to prop up the lost 20% for the lower rung of employees. I would agree that I would rather the players voluntarily take a similar 20% cut to help prop up the lost 20%. I think not propping up the 20% immediately is a PR mistake but placing people on furlough which guarantees their job prospects is the responsible decision. I personally feel for any employee who's job is not protected because they can be lost. There will be a new normal, it will not look the same as it did. People have already lost jobs, they would snatch the 80% plus job protection out of your hands right now if offered. Again, Levy did not make the best decision; however, he did not screw over his employees. I tend to believe they realize this and appreciate his commitment to protecting their jobs. I apologize for the rant but the furlough you guys describe is far from the worst case scenario others are experiencing. Honestly, it is far from the worst I have experienced in my life/career. Which is why I changed career paths in an attempt to never be in that position again. I wish life would resume so none of this was necessary, but reality is not so kind. I hope this rant has provided some insight and perspective to the conversation. Regards and best of health to you all!

Exactly. Great post.

Let’s see the reaction in a few months time when those clubs that didn’t take advantage of the government scheme suddenly have to lay off lots of their workers because they can’t afford or don’t want to pay them.
 

Colston

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2013
670
847
Would there be any clause written into a contract for a player that you wouldn't find in a normal employee - lets say a member of the sales team - that caters to this sort of global pandemic? These are unique circumstances, and I would love to see a player try to take a Premier League club to court over wages over this. Sure, they would likely win, but that's a Sol Campbell level of sickness if you're going to do that, imo.

Everyone is making do, everyone is having to find new ways to do shit, the fact that footballers are choosing to hoard their fortunes and demand their wages continue - that might not be possible and they need to accept that, just like every one of us has.
The only thing I could think of that might apply is some sort of force majeure clause, and even if there is one it doesn't mean it would be applicable for this purpose.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
assume If Joe Lewis wanted to replace him as chairmen with someone else he could.

Joe Lewis is his uncle, the only way Levy would be out would be if the board had no confidence in him, and even then Lewis would be highly unlikely to do anything.

Given Levy's transformed a double digit millions investment in Spurs into a £1.5bn company with vastly valuable fixed assets and one of the healthiest balance sheet's in world football, I rather doubt Uncle Joe is going to be calling up Daniel and saying "Sorry nephew, I've got to let you go because UKWomble55 on SC really isn't happy with this furloughing stuff".
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
Joe Lewis is his uncle, the only way Levy would be out would be if the board had no confidence in him, and even then Lewis would be highly unlikely to do anything.

Given Levy's transformed a double digit millions investment in Spurs into a £1.5bn company with vastly valuable fixed assets and one of the healthiest balance sheet's in world football, I rather doubt Uncle Joe is going to be calling up Daniel and saying "Sorry nephew, I've got to let you go because UKWomble55 on SC really isn't happy with this furloughing stuff".

Better not spread that incorrect statement of him being his uncle too much, could be all sorts of divorce cases going on.
He is his godfather.
 
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