Jose Mourinho

E17yid · Mar 16, 2020

Gb160 said:
He's here, and will be for the foreseeable.
No amount of crying or whining is going to change that, so dry those tears and stop throwing your toys about.

No one knows if he's going to be a success or not after 4 months, and I cannot fathom why some fans seem to think they do...it's weird and a bit embarrassing.

Worst case scenario is he falls out with everyone, while playing relegation form football, and he gets the sack around xmas.

Leaving us in exactly the same position as when he was hired.

I agree with all of this except the last sentence. Say we have a decent reshuffle in the summer with most of Mourinho’s main targets coming in (for purposes of the hypothetical let’s say we sign 4 players and ship out 4 - optimistic I know) if it turns out at the start of next season that Jose is past it and, on top of that, the signings we made for him are a load of shit and we get off to a terrible start that will not put us in exactly the same situation at all imo. It will massively set us back even further as we’ll be lumbered with more players we don’t need which will essentially prevent us from doing the rebuild we need. We’ll be stuck with them.

I’m all for giving him time but I won’t lie, I’m bracing myself for Smalling, Matic, Willian (not necessarily all those exact players but players like that) in the summer and a further clusterfuck come Xmas. A cluster fuck we’ll find a lot harder to get out of.

Gb160 · Mar 16, 2020

E17yid said:
I’m all for giving him time but I won’t lie, I’m bracing myself for Smalling, Matic, Willian (not necessarily all those exact players but players like that) in the summer and a further clusterfuck come Xmas. A cluster fuck we’ll find a lot harder to get out of.

Mate chill, Levy isn't going to be giving players like that 5 year deals.

Metalhead · Mar 16, 2020

E17yid said:
I agree with all of this except the last sentence. Say we have a decent reshuffle in the summer with most of Mourinho’s main targets coming in (for purposes of the hypothetical let’s say we sign 4 players and ship out 4 - optimistic I know) if it turns out at the start of next season that Jose is past it and, on top of that, the signings we made for him are a load of shit and we get off to a terrible start that will not put us in exactly the same situation at all imo. It will massively set us back even further as we’ll be lumbered with more players we don’t need which will essentially prevent us from doing the rebuild we need. We’ll be stuck with them.

I’m all for giving him time but I won’t lie, I’m bracing myself for Smalling, Matic, Willian (not necessarily all those exact players but players like that) in the summer and a further clusterfuck come Xmas. A cluster fuck we’ll find a lot harder to get out of.

That's always the risk with a manager though. They have to get backed or they will likely fail.

nedley · Mar 16, 2020

Shadydan said:
He backed him like most fans were calling for.

Yep. The wrong call though imo.

nedley · Mar 16, 2020

Phomesy said:
Got to remember that the Brighton game effectively started with our captain chucking the ball in his own net before injuring himself and being carried off the ground screaming screaming in agony the entire time.

If ever there was a "black swan" event to explain a result that Brighton game was it.

But that wasn't the reason we lost. That just as luck would have it, was the way the game started. But that loss was just as predictable even before a ball had been kick. The players were done.

Locotoro · Mar 16, 2020

Read an interesting article which draws similarities between Liverpool pre Klopp and Spurs pre Mourinho.

Liverpool had a title challenging team that fell short with Rogers, they brought in Klopp and it took 5 years before they won silverware.

Spurs had a title challenging team that fell short with Poch, we brought in Mourinho and it will take time to see a change.

BringBack_leGin · Mar 17, 2020

Locotoro said:
Read an interesting article which draws similarities between Liverpool pre Klopp and Spurs pre Mourinho.

Liverpool had a title challenging team that fell short with Rogers, they brought in Klopp and it took 5 years before they won silverware.

Spurs had a title challenging team that fell short with Poch, we brought in Mourinho and it will take time to see a change.

Not sure why this very reasonable post received a spam rating @alpha ?

Locotoro · Mar 17, 2020

BringBack_leGin said:
Not sure why this very reasonable post received a spam rating @alpha ?

It was either a finger slip or he doesn't understand the ratings system or what spam means - I'm not too bothered

Gassin's finest · Mar 17, 2020

Locotoro said:
It was either a finger slip or he doesn't understand the ratings system or what spam means - I'm not too bothered

There are tons of these types of ratings these days, because the majority of people use their right hands, and scroll with their thumb on the right hand side of the screen.

Align the ratings to the left and watch them stop. So obvious.

teedee · Mar 17, 2020

Locotoro said:
Read an interesting article which draws similarities between Liverpool pre Klopp and Spurs pre Mourinho.

Liverpool had a title challenging team that fell short with Rogers, they brought in Klopp and it took 5 years before they won silverware.

Spurs had a title challenging team that fell short with Poch, we brought in Mourinho and it will take time to see a change.

There is a big difference between the two clubs that has had a major effect on Liverpool progressing so well under Klopp and what may or may not happen under Mourinho. That difference is Liverpool's recruitment. They recruited the right players, paying large fees where justified on Oxlade-Chamberlain, Mane, Salah, Alisson, van Dijk, Fabinho, Keita and didn't leave it until the last moment of transfer windows to acquire the players. Levy, as he has stated, doesn't believe there's a direct correlation between winning and spending money. Until and unless Mourinho can persuade Levy to spend big on the right players, I fear that things will remain pretty much as they are.

Japhet · Mar 17, 2020

Gb160 said:
He's here, and will be for the foreseeable.
No amount of crying or whining is going to change that, so dry those tears and stop throwing your toys about.

No one knows if he's going to be a success or not after 4 months, and I cannot fathom why some fans seem to think they do...it's weird and a bit embarrassing.

Worst case scenario is he falls out with everyone, while playing relegation form football, and he gets the sack around xmas.

Leaving us in exactly the same position as when he was hired.

.............minus around £45,000,000 in salary and compensation.

Deleted member 27995 · Mar 17, 2020

Japhet said:
.............minus around £45,000,000 in salary and compensation.

It's not like we'd have spent it on players.

chinaman · Mar 17, 2020

Locotoro said:
It was either a finger slip or he doesn't understand the ratings system or what spam means - I'm not too bothered

Spams are good things to have around during quarantines.

Gb160 · Mar 17, 2020

Japhet said:
.............minus around £45,000,000 in salary and compensation.

...plus the amount the club earns over that period.

Locotoro · Mar 17, 2020

teedee said:
There is a big difference between the two clubs that has had a major effect on Liverpool progressing so well under Klopp and what may or may not happen under Mourinho. That difference is Liverpool's recruitment. They recruited the right players, paying large fees where justified on Oxlade-Chamberlain, Mane, Salah, Alisson, van Dijk, Fabinho, Keita and didn't leave it until the last moment of transfer windows to acquire the players. Levy, as he has stated, doesn't believe there's a direct correlation between winning and spending money. Until and unless Mourinho can persuade Levy to spend big on the right players, I fear that things will remain pretty much as they are.

I'm not sure you're highlighting a difference there - Jose hasn't had the time to recruit the players he wants. We've had one window with JM and he brought in 2 first team players in Bergwijn and Gedson (I'm not including Lo Celso as he was already here). Let's not forget whilst everyone lauds Liverpool's recruitment policy for signing Alisson and VVD, they are just 2 players in 23 that Klopp has signed since 2016. Klopp also signed Steven Caulker and Loris Karius among others during that time. There are players who have not performed to their billing like Naby Keita, but are being glossed over because the team is doing well. I make this point because at the time it wasn't Alisson or VVD that was supposed to make the difference, it was Keita!

Klopp's had almost 4 years and only now are we seeing his vision manifest (he even had to adapt his philosophy when his revered assistant parted ways with him). Klopp was brought in October of that season and finished 8th at the end of it. He has had a lot of time and still hasn't won a domestic trophy. He's won the UCL once and the CWC and Super Cups earlier this season. It's undeniable that he's done very well but lets put all this into perspective

I also think that whilst Levy says the two are not correlated what he means is more is "buying the right player is more important than buying the most expensive player" and that is something I agree with.

buckley · Mar 17, 2020

Buying the right player = mostly failed
Buying the most expensive = non applicable
Overall it shows we need someone with real knowledge of talent and its something we don't possess or look like getting hold of and so we blunder on .

teedee · Mar 17, 2020

Locotoro said:
I'm not sure you're highlighting a difference there - Jose hasn't had the time to recruit the players he wants. We've had one window with JM and he brought in 2 first team players in Bergwijn and Gedson (I'm not including Lo Celso as he was already here). Let's not forget whilst everyone lauds Liverpool's recruitment policy for signing Alisson and VVD, they are just 2 players in 23 that Klopp has signed since 2016. Klopp also signed Steven Caulker and Loris Karius among others during that time. There are players who have not performed to their billing like Naby Keita, but are being glossed over because the team is doing well. I make this point because at the time it wasn't Alisson or VVD that was supposed to make the difference, it was Keita!

Klopp's had almost 4 years and only now are we seeing his vision manifest (he even had to adapt his philosophy when his revered assistant parted ways with him). Klopp was brought in October of that season and finished 8th at the end of it. He has had a lot of time and still hasn't won a domestic trophy. He's won the UCL once and the CWC and Super Cups earlier this season. It's undeniable that he's done very after but lets put all this into perspective

I also think that whilst Levy says the two are not correlated what he means is more is "buying the right player is more important than buying the most expensive player" and that is something I agree with.

I wasn't criticising Mourinho. On the contrary I don't believe that he is yesterday's man and if the right players are acquired am sure we will do well, but, as you say, it takes time. I do have an issue with Levy, though. I believe his statement is just an excuse for his failures in the transfer market.

Locotoro · Mar 17, 2020

teedee said:
I wasn't criticising Mourinho. On the contrary I don't believe that he is yesterday's man and if the right players are acquired am sure we will do well, but, as you say, it takes time. I do have an issue with Levy, though. I believe his statement is just an excuse for his failures in the transfer market.

It's difficult to know what Levy's reason for making that statement. Yes, he could be deflecting as you describe but I genuinely think he's more likely to actually hold that belief and say it straight laced as he has done.

Do you consider this season's signings a failure or do you consider the lack of more signings a failure? I don't think he has failed (this season at least) after signing Ndombele, LoCelso, Gedson, Sessegnon, Clarke and Bergwijn For a cumulative 170m approx. He's also managed to get rid of so much deadwood that we held on to under Poch (Wanyama, KWP, Rose, Eriksen). That makes me think that Poch was more influential in keeping those players than we're lead to believe. Yes we have some gaping holes in the squad but the information I'm starting to see now is that Poch was more concerned with getting his first choice or no one and that has lead to squad deficiencies because we know we're not going to get most of our first choice targets.

Chirpystheman · Mar 17, 2020

I see a lot of comments regarding Jose training and questioning of what he is doing, is working on etc. What i would say is its hard to work fully on defensive shape when you have no forwards to assist you. When you are doing attack vs defence drills. When you havent got the tools in the squad its hard to work on this things. For instance toby etc up against Parrott or other youth players in training is different to having Kane in the drill and set up. Training is a team effort. All we can hope is over these next few months Jose can really get his message across and get them well drilled. Id also hope spurs will be bringing in some decent mental health workers to work with the players as 5/6 months without doing the one thing they have spent the majority of their life doing is going to be tough. Danny rose struggled massively when out injured and probably never mentally got over it.

arnoldlayne · Mar 17, 2020

Locotoro said:
It's difficult to know what Levy's reason for making that statement. Yes, he could be deflecting as you describe but I genuinely think he's more likely to actually hold that belief and say it straight laced as he has done.

Do you consider this season's signings a failure or do you consider the lack of more signings a failure? I don't think he has failed (this season at least) after signing Ndombele, LoCelso, Gedson, Sessegnon, Clarke and Bergwijn For a cumulative 170m approx. He's also managed to get rid of so much deadwood that we held on to under Poch (Wanyama, KWP, Rose, Eriksen). That makes me think that Poch was more influential in keeping those players than we're lead to believe. Yes we have some gaping holes in the squad but the information I'm starting to see now is that Poch was more concerned with getting his first choice or no one and that has lead to squad deficiencies because we know we're not going to get most of our first choice targets.

Maybe as the second and third choice players have turned out like Njie (spelling?), Nkoudo (spelling?), Janssen, Fazio, etc, it would be understandable why he would rather not have anybody? They then clog up the squad and are difficult to get rid of

Regarding the deadwood - it seems nobody wanted Rose, Eriksen, Wanyama at least - or they didn't want to take a pay cut, etc. In the end, they were eventually forced out or too near the end of a contract. Toby is still probably here because there were no clubs that were an improvement on Spurs & London

In addition, when that £170m is the spend over 4 windows, with the current income, it doesn't seem so impressive.

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Well done boys. Good process

But that's a debate for another thread.....

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C'est diabolique

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Well done boys. Good process

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