ENIC...

wrd said:

I'm not Enic out by any stretch of the imagination, I want us to succeed with them because it's been an incredible journey under them and want them to revel in the footballing success but I'm getting a bit bored of reading how entitled spurs fans are because how amazing our stadium is. I don't remember Spurs fans demanding a new stadium. I don't remember Spurs fans demanding that it also have the capability to play two different sports and be as multipurpose as it is. I don't remember Spurs fans demanding that we spend over 1 billion pounds on a new stadium. So when you keep saying we're entitled because look at our stadium I don't see how that's accurate. Levy and Enic made the decision that they wanted to build the new stadium and not only build a new stadium but also in the incredibly complex way that they did so.

There's no doubt in my mind that for them it's a terrific accomplishment from a business point of view but stop asking Spurs fans to be grateful for something which wasn't and isn't as important to them as what happens on the pitch. Spurs fans would have gladly sacrificed this stadium build if it meant footballing success. I understand the bigger picture that we want to compete but let's keep in mind that we didn't need to spend as much as we did to build a new stadium, I know we're trying to get multiple revenue streams but as fans until we see us regularly putting that money onto the pitch by purchasing players then it's going to be seen as lining the profits of our owners.

Just try and see it from those fans perspectives instead of talking about how grateful we should be. Yes they're morons in our fanbase who take it too far when it comes to Levy and ENIC but I'm not talking about the loud idiots. I'm talking about fans who are frustrated that we are being charged the highest prices in europe, despite not only not winning trophies in the way the likes of Madrid, Barca, United do and yet still charging prices which befit clubs with those kind of successes. Try and understand the frustration that we're hearing we don't have the players available to the point where we have to prioritise either the league or the champions all because of 2 injuries. Take into account we were told that the stadium costs would not affect transfer spending from the horses mouth. Yes we're not entitled to win every game and when you pay for a ticket you're paying simply to watch a football game however appreciate the frustration that comes from seemingly not having the resources on the pitch to the point where we're allowing the bottom of the league outplay us because our team has no legs. That is a failing of the infrastructure and as somebody aptly put it about the stadium and the current squad, there's little point in buying an incredible garage to park your shitty banger in.

I understand the longer term choices that were made to benefit the club with the stadium, but ENIC need to accept that during this period of where we're not quite ready to sit at the big table and the tightening of the purse strings due to the business decisions that they not the fans made, that fans are going to be disgruntled at having to pay the prices they do for what they're receiving and maybe some of you staunchly defending every decision they make do need to accept there's valid criticism also.

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not having a go at you, but it's also considerable moaning about us charging the most for tickets to watch shit? at the time of the 1st pricing we were 3rd best in the league. fans wanted more money spent on players, players want more to play, players are more expensive to buy and want higher wages. every new stadium that is built put their prices up, because the costs to staff maintain and pay for it have to be paid from somewhere.

what we do have in place is if ever the TV money goes tits up, we are most probably the best team equipped for it.

had we not built the stadium do you think Kane would have stayed loyal in a team not winning trophies but still accepted his 80-100k per week when he could earn double to treble elsewhere and win trophies. would the fans be happy to go back to being a selling club

coys200 said:

People seriously think Mourinho joined on the agreement of no spending ?

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he didn't do himself any favours from the start saying our squad was strong enough. if he said that after what Poch said about a new build being needed in his meetings with Levy he won't be getting the funds needed especially if we fail to make Europe

I agree with the person that said "you seriously think Mourhino agreed to join without some kind of investment agreement " I am paraphrasing but you get the gist . A leopard does not change its spots and Jose has always been a big spender and I hope he puts the pressure on ENICto put their hand in their pocket a bit more than they had up to now for what its worth for all of ENIC good work I think they are going to have to invest if they want to stay or as it seems return to the top four .

Lighty64 said:

not having a go at you, but it's also considerable moaning about us charging the most for tickets to watch shit? at the time of the 1st pricing we were 3rd best in the league. fans wanted more money spent on players, players want more to play, players are more expensive to buy and want higher wages. every new stadium that is built put their prices up, because the costs to staff maintain and pay for it have to be paid from somewhere.

what we do have in place is if ever the TV money goes tits up, we are most probably the best team equipped for it.

had we not built the stadium do you think Kane would have stayed loyal in a team not winning trophies but still accepted his 80-100k per week when he could earn double to treble elsewhere and win trophies. would the fans be happy to go back to being a selling club

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You're pretty much proving my point, I said just try and understand their frustration and you've ignored all of that, haven't acknowledged it and instead just tried to defend it. I never said there wasn't valid reasons to argue why the prices are how they are, I said to try and appreciate the fans frustrations with the situation. Being 3rd in the league still isn't the equivalent to being Madrid, Barca, United.

You can say fans wanted more money to spend on players and I literally said in what I wrote that until fans see those streams of income going onto pitch more so than what we have then there will be frustration, which makes me think you didn't read what I wrote and just straight into defence mode. We haven't started to see some transfers over the past 2 windows but it's understandable why fans still feel like it isn't enough due to not signing any players for 18 months and playing catch up. Also seeing the likes of Ndombele collecting 200k a week only stokes the fires further as he struggles to even be fit for an hour at the expense of the paying fans.

Talking about the possibility of TV money going tits up isn't a valid justification and from yeah the stadium might have made Kane believe we're going in the right direction but I'd equally argue if we had chosen to instead to focus our efforts on the pitch, that would have vindicated his decision. Add that to the murmurs that he's questioning our future, despite the wages we've got him on, despite the brand new stadium, I don't really see how bringing up Kane is a good argument.

As I said I fully understand the reasoning behind the ticket prices if it leads to those things. I'm asking for people on your side to acknowledge the other side of the argument whilst things such as getting players on top wages and signing top talents is still in the transitional phase.

John48 said:

Ultimately it's what's on the pitch that counts & if ENIC aren't prepared to put the money in to revitalise the squad they should handover to someone who is prepared to do this because what's the pitch at the moment is very, very average and shows how poor the squad is.

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What do you mean by "put the money in"?

shelfmonkey said:

I agree, but Mourinho will spend a shit load of money on shite (probably), fuck off two years later and we'll be left with a similar problem, players that don't fit a new manager's way of playing!

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But I thought Mourinho's only won so many trophies because he's spent shit loads of money?

wrd said:

You're pretty much proving my point, I said just try and understand their frustration and you've ignored all of that, haven't acknowledged it and instead just tried to defend it. I never said there wasn't valid reasons to argue why the prices are how they are, I said to try and appreciate the fans frustrations with the situation. Being 3rd in the league still isn't the equivalent to being Madrid, Barca, United.

You can say fans wanted more money to spend on players and I literally said in what I wrote that until fans see those streams of income going onto pitch more so than what we have then there will be frustration, which makes me think you didn't read what I wrote and just straight into defence mode. We haven't started to see some transfers over the past 2 windows but it's understandable why fans still feel like it isn't enough due to not signing any players for 18 months and playing catch up. Also seeing the likes of Ndombele collecting 200k a week only stokes the fires further as he struggles to even be fit for an hour at the expense of the paying fans.

Talking about the possibility of TV money going tits up isn't a valid justification and from yeah the stadium might have made Kane believe we're going in the right direction but I'd equally argue if we had chosen to instead to focus our efforts on the pitch, that would have vindicated his decision. Add that to the murmurs that he's questioning our future, despite the wages we've got him on, despite the brand new stadium, I don't really see how bringing up Kane is a good argument.

As I said I fully understand the reasoning behind the ticket prices if it leads to those things. I'm asking for people on your side to acknowledge the other side of the argument whilst things such as getting players on top wages and signing top talents is still in the transitional phase.

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they were voicing their frustrations when they were announced, just not helped that we spent the majority of the season still playing at Wembley, not helped by the attendances and costs when at Wembley, and the costs to put right the delays. this all wasn't helped with the taking away of 2 cup games, which should have at least been offered as domestic cup tickets, or if to include CL then the 26k at the old stadium should have received them, but then they would have had mega complaints from new purchases, but the cost of 2 CL fixtures ='s millions

and they have look at what we spent in the 2 windows compared to any other season bar the season we sold Bale. with the rumours about Fernandes (which might have happened if Eriksen had gone in the summer), and no one knows if Dybala was ever a real thing. if you meant the fans wanted more spent while the stadium was being built then they need to understand we never had the resources to do that without selling star players.

I agree about Man U, Barca and RM, but 1 they have always had the income from a long way back, and if and when they do build a new stadium the fans will pay more.

with Ndombele the only fault of ENIC in that is they bought a player Poch wanted, myself I wished they had spent the money on a DCM, but at the time he was meant to be the next big thing.

with Kane yes he would of most probably preferred to stay at the old stadium and win trophies, but we saw that the players we wanted at some points wanted more money than him to sign, which could have possibly caused an effect of other players knocking on the door wanting more. when we were considering buying Mane for 35m Kane was valued at over 100m, and a much better player. do you think he would have been happy with being paid 35k less per week. he is questioning his future (IF TRUE) because we are struggling.

we are in this mess because the players downed tools at the start of the season, and Poch had 4 or 5 players that didn't want to be here or he didn't want to be here but because of the squad had little choice of playing them. if we could have sold them then perhaps we would have had a happier camp. the thing is the fans blame Levy for overpricing them, yet Rose wanted to move North (or decided he wanted to run his contract down) no one wanted Toby for 25m, Eriksen wanted to go to Barca/RM or just a new challenge away from the PL. Wanyama didn't want to move to Belgium.

let us see what they spend every summer now we are in the new stadium, and hope it brings success. the lack of success over the 20 seasons has been down to mainly the players/manager on the day at a time when we had a very strong spine and a pretty decent 18 players that has been very difficult to replace because the stadium was being built

RichieS said:

What do you mean by "put the money in"?

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Money to buy the players needed to revitalise the squad.

Quite a few supporters were quite happy when we didn't spend money on players, but that only leads to where we are now & now we need to spend a substantial amount on getting in maybe 6 or more players to simply give us a chance of getting back to where we were 2 or 3 seasons ago.

I often say it's not what you spend, but what you spend it on that counts. We've got to a situation of wanting something like 6 players of a standard that matches the likes of Lo Celso, Kane & Son, so even if they're around 25M you're looking at 150 to 200M. Unless your scouting system can identify gems like Sarr or Kante, something we haven't really done since Dele.

wrd said:

I'm getting a bit bored of reading how entitled spurs fans are because how amazing our stadium is.

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Where have you read that? Genuine question. I don't think "the masses" are saying anti-ENIC voices are entitled because of the stadium. I think it's for very different reasons.

wrd said:

stop asking Spurs fans to be grateful for something which wasn't and isn't as important to them as what happens on the pitch. Spurs fans would have gladly sacrificed this stadium build if it meant footballing success.

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This (to my mind) is more where the entitlement thing comes from. You are speaking on behalf of all Spurs fans there which is never a good idea. We see this all the time... comments about how Levy has done stuff wrong because it's not what the fans want. Well that's just not true - fans want all sorts of different things.

wrd said:

I understand the bigger picture that we want to compete but let's keep in mind that we didn't need to spend as much as we did to build a new stadium, I know we're trying to get multiple revenue streams but as fans until we see us regularly putting that money onto the pitch by purchasing players then it's going to be seen as lining the profits of our owners.

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I think there are a few misconceptions here that are shared by many who dislike the ENIC era.

The profits of THFC don't go into the bank accounts of the owners, they go into the bank accounts of THFC. It's desperately wrong to think that if we spend £50m of a £100m "warchest" that Levy keeps the extra £50m for himself, and unfortunately I believe that's what a number of fans actually think.

In terms of the stadium complexity, yes we could have built a much simpler stadium for a lower price. The question is would it have been worth it? Would it have been worth the upheaval to end up with essentially WHL with a larger capacity and fresh lick of paint? And it's not like an average stadium would cost £100m... these things are damned expensive to build no matter what.

wrd said:

...we are being charged the highest prices in europe ...we're hearing we don't have the players available to the point where we have to prioritise either the league or the champions all because of 2 injuries ...stadium costs would not affect transfer spending from the horses mouth ...we're allowing the bottom of the league outplay us because our team has no legs.

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Again, I feel there are a number of misconceptions here we get parroted so often they are accepted as truths and nobody bothers to clarify them. It's Trump's world of fake news and we should all try and be better than that.

Highest prices in Europe; I believe this one stems from the highest season ticket available at the new stadium right, and that it's more expensive than any other season ticket? Fair enough, but how many of us are buying the most expensive ST? This isn't an argument that should EVER be used to gripe in my opinion.

No players available; You're talking about an experienced footy manager getting his excuses in after some poor performances. If you can look at those team sheets and honestly say that our team was worse because we don't have the right players I would be impressed.

Stadium costs; When you read what Levy said he talks about the stadium costs not affecting "transfer policy". He also talks about home grown quotas and squad quotas in general. He talks about the different parts of deals and the many reasons why they may fall through, including the willingness of players. But of course that isn't sexy so it gets morphed into "not affect transfer spending" which is simply untrue.

Outplayed; How did Aston Villa reach the final of the league cup? How did Portsmouth win the FA cup and get relegated in the same year? Because this is sport and that's how it goes sometimes.

I believe the point you are trying to make is that we haven't spent enough on players to be able to rotate enough to have the energy to beat Norwich. The glaring problem with that is the implication that Norwich have spent enough on players to rotate so effectively that they can outperform a more talented team. If you can put together the spends of both Spurs and Norwich and also put together the minutes played of all the players on the pitch I think you will find that this argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

wrd said:

I understand the longer term choices that were made to benefit the club

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Herein lies the biggest "untruth" of the lot in my opinion, and it's quoted by many fans so please don't feel that I'm picking on you or anything.

The idea is exactly as you describe; choices made that should benefit the club long-term. That is exactly what the owners of any organisation should be doing. But the criticisms that are so often made are hugely short-term and often come after a loss or poor performance. It's just wrong to allow short-term emotion to govern your opinion about long-term policies - the two things are never going to marry up.

I can fully understand the frustrations that many fans feel due to a disparity of transfer spending between us and the other top clubs, and certainly the disparity of trophies between those same clubs. But surely the whole crux of the matter lies just there, in the word that you and I have both used: frustration. As long as we can all see it as a frustration I reckon everyone will get along a bit better. Frustration is something that is felt by all fans of all sports on many occasions.

When you boil it all the way down to frustration you can start to properly judge these criticisms, and actually put it into context of spending and trophies to see which stack up.
Had we won the FA cup 5 times under ENIC would fans still be frustrated... yes.
Had we spent an additional £500m on players over the past 5 years would fans still be frustrated... yes.
Had we signed Grealish and Dybala and Fernandes would fans still be frustrated... yes.

There is no amount of spending that will prevent poor performances and tournament exits. There is no combination of players that will keep all fans happy all of the time. The life of a sports fan is to be condemned to long periods of frustration, and the real measure of "success" is how often that frustration can be relieved.

Not that long ago we didn't used to get frustrated at not winning stuff. We got frustrated that whenever we got a decent player they were guaranteed to leave. We got frustrated that we didn't have European matches to play. We got frustrated that Arsenal fans could constantly take the piss and be right. We got frustrated that even when we did have a tasty cup run it would be whilst we also had one eye on relegation.

I honestly find it as frustrating to read the posts making endless excuses as the ones making endless snide remarks. This whole argument tends to bounce between the two extremes... we get labelled either as a "Lighty" or as a "nedley" and it's just not that simple. The main problem is that the middle ground posts rarely get replied to and discussed - people seemingly prefer to throw shit at the extreme posts.

If you've read this whole post well done! To finish I would say I agree with the point you made at the end of your post about ENIC accepting they won't be the friend of the fans during a period of reduced player spending. I think you're spot on with that assessment, but I also think they appreciate it as well. It's a financial balancing act which is never a popular thing in any industry.

I'm sure it would have been easy for them to "appease" us fans with a flashy signing here and there and maybe a few extra cup runs. But would it really have made the club any better off? We seem to be moving into a period where money rules the game and I think that had the club spent the money on players rather than infrastructure we would be in this exact same thread talking about how frustrating it was to see a bleak future and that the lack of future-proofing from our owners should see them gone.

RichieS said:

What do you mean by "put the money in"?

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He means do exactly what FSG for Liverpool and put their hands in their own pockets to fund the team...oh no wait a minute they didn't actually do that did they...

vegassd said:

Where have you read that? Genuine question. I don't think "the masses" are saying anti-ENIC voices are entitled because of the stadium. I think it's for very different reasons.


This (to my mind) is more where the entitlement thing comes from. You are speaking on behalf of all Spurs fans there which is never a good idea. We see this all the time... comments about how Levy has done stuff wrong because it's not what the fans want. Well that's just not true - fans want all sorts of different things.


I think there are a few misconceptions here that are shared by many who dislike the ENIC era.

The profits of THFC don't go into the bank accounts of the owners, they go into the bank accounts of THFC. It's desperately wrong to think that if we spend £50m of a £100m "warchest" that Levy keeps the extra £50m for himself, and unfortunately I believe that's what a number of fans actually think.

In terms of the stadium complexity, yes we could have built a much simpler stadium for a lower price. The question is would it have been worth it? Would it have been worth the upheaval to end up with essentially WHL with a larger capacity and fresh lick of paint? And it's not like an average stadium would cost £100m... these things are damned expensive to build no matter what.


Again, I feel there are a number of misconceptions here we get parroted so often they are accepted as truths and nobody bothers to clarify them. It's Trump's world of fake news and we should all try and be better than that.

Highest prices in Europe; I believe this one stems from the highest season ticket available at the new stadium right, and that it's more expensive than any other season ticket? Fair enough, but how many of us are buying the most expensive ST? This isn't an argument that should EVER be used to gripe in my opinion.

No players available; You're talking about an experienced footy manager getting his excuses in after some poor performances. If you can look at those team sheets and honestly say that our team was worse because we don't have the right players I would be impressed.

Stadium costs; When you read what Levy said he talks about the stadium costs not affecting "transfer policy". He also talks about home grown quotas and squad quotas in general. He talks about the different parts of deals and the many reasons why they may fall through, including the willingness of players. But of course that isn't sexy so it gets morphed into "not affect transfer spending" which is simply untrue.

Outplayed; How did Aston Villa reach the final of the league cup? How did Portsmouth win the FA cup and get relegated in the same year? Because this is sport and that's how it goes sometimes.

I believe the point you are trying to make is that we haven't spent enough on players to be able to rotate enough to have the energy to beat Norwich. The glaring problem with that is the implication that Norwich have spent enough on players to rotate so effectively that they can outperform a more talented team. If you can put together the spends of both Spurs and Norwich and also put together the minutes played of all the players on the pitch I think you will find that this argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.


Herein lies the biggest "untruth" of the lot in my opinion, and it's quoted by many fans so please don't feel that I'm picking on you or anything.

The idea is exactly as you describe; choices made that should benefit the club long-term. That is exactly what the owners of any organisation should be doing. But the criticisms that are so often made are hugely short-term and often come after a loss or poor performance. It's just wrong to allow short-term emotion to govern your opinion about long-term policies - the two things are never going to marry up.

I can fully understand the frustrations that many fans feel due to a disparity of transfer spending between us and the other top clubs, and certainly the disparity of trophies between those same clubs. But surely the whole crux of the matter lies just there, in the word that you and I have both used: frustration. As long as we can all see it as a frustration I reckon everyone will get along a bit better. Frustration is something that is felt by all fans of all sports on many occasions.

When you boil it all the way down to frustration you can start to properly judge these criticisms, and actually put it into context of spending and trophies to see which stack up.
Had we won the FA cup 5 times under ENIC would fans still be frustrated... yes.
Had we spent an additional £500m on players over the past 5 years would fans still be frustrated... yes.
Had we signed Grealish and Dybala and Fernandes would fans still be frustrated... yes.

There is no amount of spending that will prevent poor performances and tournament exits. There is no combination of players that will keep all fans happy all of the time. The life of a sports fan is to be condemned to long periods of frustration, and the real measure of "success" is how often that frustration can be relieved.

Not that long ago we didn't used to get frustrated at not winning stuff. We got frustrated that whenever we got a decent player they were guaranteed to leave. We got frustrated that we didn't have European matches to play. We got frustrated that Arsenal fans could constantly take the piss and be right. We got frustrated that even when we did have a tasty cup run it would be whilst we also had one eye on relegation.

I honestly find it as frustrating to read the posts making endless excuses as the ones making endless snide remarks. This whole argument tends to bounce between the two extremes... we get labelled either as a "Lighty" or as a "nedley" and it's just not that simple. The main problem is that the middle ground posts rarely get replied to and discussed - people seemingly prefer to throw shit at the extreme posts.

If you've read this whole post well done! To finish I would say I agree with the point you made at the end of your post about ENIC accepting they won't be the friend of the fans during a period of reduced player spending. I think you're spot on with that assessment, but I also think they appreciate it as well. It's a financial balancing act which is never a popular thing in any industry.

I'm sure it would have been easy for them to "appease" us fans with a flashy signing here and there and maybe a few extra cup runs. But would it really have made the club any better off? We seem to be moving into a period where money rules the game and I think that had the club spent the money on players rather than infrastructure we would be in this exact same thread talking about how frustrating it was to see a bleak future and that the lack of future-proofing from our owners should see them gone.

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I've read the whole thing and I think everything you said was very fair and I agree with the vast majority of it. You did exactly what I wanted and simply acknowledged the frustration and looked at both sides of the coin but made some good points which I do agree with. In regards to your genuine question at the beginning, I'll be honest I'm on a train and not prepared to go digging but I'd say just look out for how many people label spurs fans something then mention stadium and training facilities and you will see where I'm coming from on that front.

Also I know people would pick up on me speaking generally, I regretted it after I posted I meant those voicing their frustration without going over the top, not all. I think in terms of the prices we're talking about relatively. Our cheapest ticket relatively speaking is among the highest if not the highest of all cheapest tickets in europe along with the more expensive season tickets.

When I was speaking about it lining the ENIC pockets, I wasn't being literal I meant it more as that's the perception of disgruntled fans in the sense that there's a feeling the money is being held back instead of going back onto the pitch. I know that they aren't doing what the Glazers are doing.

I do think that the long term was the better call personally. I understand their decisions, I just wanted to articulate a post which offered a bit of understanding and perspective. I feel the frustration in the short term also but ultimately do feel they made the correct decisions which is why I started my post by saying I'm far from ENIC out.

If I didn't reply to any of your other points it's because I agree with them pretty much. I can understand the frustration at the moment, especially when a manager is saying he's going to put out a weak team in one of our games because we don't have enough players, I can understand fans feeling short changed and frustrated even if it is just the manager playing up to the media. As I say I understand the choices made for the long term but I just wish people didn't miss the very valid frustrations that people have and as you said they are mostly in the short term and they shouldn't boil over to anything more than frustration. I think if people didn't just dismiss those with gripes as entitled or anti-enic then we'd be able to have a reasonable debate. It works both ways and people should acknowledge what ENIC have done for us which is what I tried to do within my post.

Lighty64 said:

he didn't do himself any favours from the start saying our squad was strong enough. if he said that after what Poch said about a new build being needed in his meetings with Levy he won't be getting the funds needed especially if we fail to make Europe

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We're talking about the master of deception here.

Do we really think he told Levy this squad is amazing and he doesn't need to change anything? At the very first opportunity he brought in 2 players! And still wanted a striker! He also blooded in Tanganga which tells you he's not happy with the squad and probably wasn't to begin with but he felt that there was enough quality to work with.

He's an intelligent bloke and dissects games and players right down the finer details. There's no way he told Levy he's happy with it.

He's likely to have told him that he thinks he can get a tune out of some of them but he will need new players. He's done it at every other club he's been at.

He also isn't going to be an idiot and say "I think this squad needs a refresh" and upset the squad. He needed them all to buy into this season, if any of them get wind that they're out the door then we'd be in serious serious shit as they'd likely be giving less than 100%.

All throughout his career he's boosted players and challenged players in equal measure (read what Terry said about him). He tries to make players tick, sometimes he criticises them others he praises.

This wasn't the time to criticise, the players were already suffering and feeling apathetic. They needed energy and positivity.

A few months down the line and we can see that that's not all we needed, we need to ship some out and refresh the squad. I'd wager that both Jose and Levy knew that back in November.

The key will be whether Levy delivers what he promised or what Mourinho suggested.

Lighty64 said:

you do realise that better players don't even guarantee to be in that position. if we had better players than Llorente and Moura it doesn't mean they would have got the same goals that got us through to the final. since 2008 Man C have spent 1.85b and never got to a CL final and have had the best manager the last 4 seasons.

when their new owner came in did they have a small 36k stadium? not they had all the infrastructure in place which just needed refreshing and a small build where possible.

like I asked the troll @SirNiNyHotspur but he couldn't answer the questions because he either has no idea on how to answer them with any proof they would have worked or been even possible

when you consider both Chelsea and Man C had spent near on 1b before FFP came in, how the fuck do you expect us to compete with those teams when we were building a stadium? how do you think we could have kept up with them without building a stadium?

most of any profits we made once we committed went on transfers and building what we have. we had a 36k stadium how do you expect that to provide us the same money that both those clubs used?

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You never stop mate, you need to get out more, let things go, it’s ok to be wrong...

Also, look at the Eriksen situation.

Jose said he was aware of the situation and hoped he'd stay, despite knowing that he was gone. But he had to keep using him so he tried not to give anything away as it would have been counter productive.

I think the frustrations are now long term ones.

When we bought Saha and Nelson I think people were a bit taken back. Prior to that we'd been told we couldn't invest in top players because we didn't have CL. Then the FFP thing came along. Now it's 'the banks' fault' because of the finance agreements.

It's been pretty much a decade of Stamboulis, Fazios, Holtbys and Nkoudous bought around a core few good players. Swiss Ramble highlighted that around £300-400m was diverted towards the stadium build before the build began while over the same period the other top 6 clubs invested similar amounts in their teams. Lo and Behold we are the only top 6 team not to have won a trophy in that period.

So the frustration is long term. And now that the stadium is here, nothing appears to be changing with the promise of a £50m war chest in the summer as the 8th richest club in the world (although I personally think there will be investment this summer).

Signs are that we've turned a corner transfer wise if the last two windows are anything to go by - but that expenditure near matches our CL earnings, so I won't hold my breath.

rossdapep said:

We're talking about the master of deception here.

Do we really think he told Levy this squad is amazing and he doesn't need to change anything? At the very first opportunity he brought in 2 players! And still wanted a striker! He also blooded in Tanganga which tells you he's not happy with the squad and probably wasn't to begin with but he felt that there was enough quality to work with.

He's an intelligent bloke and dissects games and players right down the finer details. There's no way he told Levy he's happy with it.

He's likely to have told him that he thinks he can get a tune out of some of them but he will need new players. He's done it at every other club he's been at.

He also isn't going to be an idiot and say "I think this squad needs a refresh" and upset the squad. He needed them all to buy into this season, if any of them get wind that they're out the door then we'd be in serious serious shit as they'd likely be giving less than 100%.

All throughout his career he's boosted players and challenged players in equal measure (read what Terry said about him). He tries to make players tick, sometimes he criticises them others he praises.

This wasn't the time to criticise, the players were already suffering and feeling apathetic. They needed energy and positivity.

A few months down the line and we can see that that's not all we needed, we need to ship some out and refresh the squad. I'd wager that both Jose and Levy knew that back in November.

The key will be whether Levy delivers what he promised or what Mourinho suggested.

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Maybe that is why Jose keeps mentioning the problems in a challenge to levy hoping to bring him into at least the 19th century regarding releasing the funds, if Jose who is a master manipulator with the press can't get levy going then no one will.

wrd said:

You're pretty much proving my point, I said just try and understand their frustration and you've ignored all of that, haven't acknowledged it and instead just tried to defend it. I never said there wasn't valid reasons to argue why the prices are how they are, I said to try and appreciate the fans frustrations with the situation. Being 3rd in the league still isn't the equivalent to being Madrid, Barca, United.

You can say fans wanted more money to spend on players and I literally said in what I wrote that until fans see those streams of income going onto pitch more so than what we have then there will be frustration, which makes me think you didn't read what I wrote and just straight into defence mode. We haven't started to see some transfers over the past 2 windows but it's understandable why fans still feel like it isn't enough due to not signing any players for 18 months and playing catch up. Also seeing the likes of Ndombele collecting 200k a week only stokes the fires further as he struggles to even be fit for an hour at the expense of the paying fans.

Talking about the possibility of TV money going tits up isn't a valid justification and from yeah the stadium might have made Kane believe we're going in the right direction but I'd equally argue if we had chosen to instead to focus our efforts on the pitch, that would have vindicated his decision. Add that to the murmurs that he's questioning our future, despite the wages we've got him on, despite the brand new stadium, I don't really see how bringing up Kane is a good argument.

As I said I fully understand the reasoning behind the ticket prices if it leads to those things. I'm asking for people on your side to acknowledge the other side of the argument whilst things such as getting players on top wages and signing top talents is still in the transitional phase.

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There's literally no point in trying to engage with Lighty at all, he's the ying to yankspurs' yang and simply cannot see, let alone acknowledge, anything beyond his own pre-set POV. Just rate his posts Funny or D'oh as appropriate, and save yourself the typing time.

daryl hannah said:

So the frustration is long term. And now that the stadium is here, nothing appears to be changing with the promise of a £50m war chest in the summer as the 8th richest club in the world (although I personally think there will be investment this summer).

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Reported war chest are the most bullshit and never reliable football news. For example last summer 45m for Arsenal by Ornstein.

You could literally count transfer budget in minimum five different ways.

SirNiNyHotspur said:

You never stop mate, you need to get out more, let things go, it’s ok to be wrong...

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you should know, never seen you post anything right, and it's always negative

Darrenh61 said:

Money doesn’t guarantee trophies but it isn’t coincidence that Chelsea and Man City’s history of winning trophies has been completely rewritten for the better by actually spending money on top talented footballers.

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We don’t have City’s petrol money. We don’t have Chelsea’s Russian money. To use either as an example is ridiculous. We operate on a different financial level. We still make funds available. We still break our own transfer records. Sadly, we buy poorly.

scat1620 said:

There's literally no point in trying to engage with Lighty at all, he's the ying to yankspurs' yang and simply cannot see, let alone acknowledge, anything beyond his own pre-set POV. Just rate his posts Funny or D'oh as appropriate, and save yourself the typing time.

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no if someone tells me I am wrong and proves it I will hold my hands up. I have apologised for this in the past (not going through my post to prove it)

just like you, and everyone that has a POV. I've been following Spurs for nearly 50 years and have seen the ups and downs, and the struggles. I've seen the face of football change and I hate it, but I also know I doubt there is anyone out there that would buy us, and throw money at it. if I'm wrong then please bring this post back to me.

we made a record profit a couple of seasons ago, the way most moaners go on you would think that profit has been made for the last 20 seasons. we haven't even been in the stadium for 1 season yet and people are moaning the club owners are not doing enough.