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Jose Mourinho

How do you feel about Mourinho appointment

  • Excited - silverware here we come baby

    Votes: 666 46.7%
  • Meh - will give him a chance and hope he is successful

    Votes: 468 32.8%
  • Horrified - praying for the day he'll fuck off

    Votes: 292 20.5%

  • Total voters
    1,426

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,164
38,545
The problem was, GLC, Winks and Ndombele were all awful with the ball on Saturday in the first half. What do you do then?

But so much depends on the movement off the ball around them. What are the team coached to do as attacking movements? Lucas, for example, generally stands completely still asking for the ball to feet. And we played essentially without width with Davies and Tang.

So if you're a creative midfield player, who exactly do you pass to? Nothing in front, nothing to the side, opposition swarming all round you. They had zero chance.

The way we're playing basically relies on one player dribbling past 4 or 5 and scoring.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

But so much depends on the movement off the ball around them. What are the team coached to do as attacking movements? Lucas, for example, generally stands completely still asking for the ball to feet. And we played essentially without width with Davies and Tang.

So if you're a creative midfield player, who exactly do you pass to? Nothing in front, nothing to the side, opposition swarming all round you. They had zero chance.

The way we're playing basically relies on one player dribbling past 4 or 5 and scoring.
Basically peak Gazza, Ginola and Villa - can you imagine the glory? We'd be winning 4-0 every week and rainbows would festoon the stadium.
 

Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,926
8,490
Personnel groups are similar to what Jose will have at his disposal once people are fit. Pretty clear what he wants to do for me. It even showed in some of the games where everyone has been banging on about 'hoof ball' but because five people think we play it all the time and people on television with a large screen and cordless pencil have the ability to highlight what they want to highlight to prove their own agenda ... Well, people will lap it up and believe it.

I love football, I also love hot takes.

Dunno, I don't really watch the lads with the large screen. The issues in our game that I worry about are pretty easily identified, and are structural things when building attacks that a team that aspire to achieve anything other than fluked cup wins need to address. There may be a long term plan to fix it for all I know, but I'm definitely in the sceptical camp right now.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

Dunno, I don't really watch the lads with the large screen. The issues in our game that I worry about are pretty easily identified, and are structural things when building attacks that a team that aspire to achieve anything other than fluked cup wins need to address. There may be a long term plan to fix it for all I know, but I'm definitely in the sceptical camp right now.
Only the cup wins were fluked? Well, that's progress, what are you worrying about? :LOL:
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
But so much depends on the movement off the ball around them. What are the team coached to do as attacking movements? Lucas, for example, generally stands completely still asking for the ball to feet. And we played essentially without width with Davies and Tang.

So if you're a creative midfield player, who exactly do you pass to? Nothing in front, nothing to the side, opposition swarming all round you. They had zero chance.

The way we're playing basically relies on one player dribbling past 4 or 5 and scoring.

No, it requires better movement and better passing from the players on the pitch.

Tactics weren't great on Saturday at all, but the quality we saw from us on and off the ball was shocking too. Players aren't getting a pass from me. We gave away possession 19 times in the first half - 13 times between Moura, Ndombele and Lo Celso. That was not just down to tactics.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,164
38,545
No, it requires better movement and better passing from the players on the pitch.

Tactics weren't great on Saturday at all, but the quality we saw from us on and off the ball was shocking too. Players aren't getting a pass from me. We gave away possession 19 times in the first half - 13 times between Moura, Ndombele and Lo Celso. That was not just down to tactics.

But what are the attacking players actually being told to do? Are they disobeying instructions? Or not being given any coherent plan?
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Feb 1, 2005
55,533
204,721
Aston Villa, Watford, Southampton. We won all those games, but were totally outclassed, played our negstive brand of hoof and hope football, and we were extremely lucky on all 3 occasions.
I'll say it again, this is weird. When we win we're always 'lucky' when we lose it's never unlucky. It's the negative that always counts wether that be the teams performance or an individual player.

Not aimed at you yusrisafri but the sheer weight of ignorance, pettiness and sourness on here at times like this is actually depressing to read and it's also weird how, when there's negativity to be had how a number of people seem to thrive on it. I can't be arsed to argue it much any more because there's no pleasing some people, there's no meeting in the middle, no concession just this steadfast maintaining of a negative position and a refusal to accept any sort of mitigation, people take a position and take it to an extreme and then refuse to budge. Even slightly.

It's just so draining.

It's bad enough watching the team play without coming on here only to see people at each others throats over a fucking game of football or people who rightly or wrongly, give the impression that over the top negativity actually gives them real life steel girder hard-ons. There's way of discussing things without being, as we all can be, total dickheads totally lacking in objectivity about it. I must have had about twenty PM's from people complaining that so-and-so is being abusive or a spiteful troll etc etc, we can do without all that surely.

We're not nearly as low as we could be, some of you should remember that. We all want us to be playing better football, we all want us to finish in the top 4 and this season we probably won't. It wasn't that long ago that top 4 wasn't good enough for some people. People should remember that too.

This has been coming. There's no point in going over the reasons again that's all been covered but it's been coming and if anyone thought changing the manager was going to solve what's broken then they were wrong because it was obviously a lot more than that. So perhaps don't write that off so readily like some are doing.

Now people are complaining about the 'style'. As if it's as simple as Jose saying "Here lads, knock it about at the back a bit, play it around midfield, bash bash bosh, score a goal. Holland in 1974 style. Throw in a few dragbacks, nutmegs and Cruyff turns while you're at it will you please?" Fuck me. I can't believe we still haven't won the league. We could just as easily lose by knocking it about. Come to think of it, we were losing when we were knocking it about. And people were complaining about that too.

Hasn't the penny fucking dropped yet? Perhaps it's not the managers, or us 'knocking it about', instead of people arguing about Mourinho, Dele or whoever we should be talking about how the squad was allowed to decline, how we failed, when the time was so obviously right, to freshen up the squad, how we failed, over a number of transfer windows, to even address certain positions. Or in some cases to even sign a player, because there's where what we're seeing now has its roots.

Was it Pochettino who said the rebuild was going to be painful? Well here it is and surprise surprise, its painful and performances as well as results are reflecting that. It was hardly going to be painful otherwise was it. There is no magic switch, the squad needs work doing to it and thankfully, we've started to address that but it'll take time. Yeah, yeah, I know, SC doesn't do 'time' :D

But of course, the die hard negativistas won't have any of the above. It's Mourinho, it's Dele, its its and its again and again and again..........It's everything except negligence at the very top.

Meh. Bollocks, shit, piss and wank. Tell me what a silly **** I am. Go on, go start a thread about it on FTL :D

TLDR; Some people will never be happy, we're all ****s :playful:
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
What we should hope to see is improvements in the way we do it rather than the style we play in. We should get tighter at the back and not give up so many clear cut chances

This is my problem . If we were effectively shutting the opposition out then OK....but even with 5 at the back and a 'Low Block' there is still loads of room for their forwards to create mayhem .

A Low Block without the block essentially , mirroring Poch's last 12 months where we had a Hi Press without the press !
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
But what are the attacking players actually being told to do? Are they disobeying instructions? Or not being given any coherent plan?

Disobeying is unlikely, incapable of doing what they were being asked of - it seems that way to me.

I'm not staying they are incapable of playing football in general, but they certainly seemed incapable of playing coherently on the weekend.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,164
38,545
Disobeying is unlikely, incapable of doing what they were being asked of - it seems that way to me.

I'm not staying they are incapable of playing football in general, but they certainly seemed incapable of playing coherently on the weekend.

Well for example, is Lucas being told to spin round into the channel when we have the ball deep to provide an out ball? It's the most basic of striker's runs and one of the most valuable for the team. And yet I've literally never seen him do it once. Is it a case that they're drumming this into him in the build up to the game and he's then going out and not doing it? Because if so why is he still being selected?

Or are they just saying 'try and get on the ball and make something happen' - which by all accounts is how Mourinho coaches his forwards - ie let them work it out themselves. My overall point being, given our paucity of attacking resources it falls on the manager to come up with a plan that works for the players we have. The fear being that the accounts of Mourinho are true, and he doesn't actually have any kind of attacking strategy other than have very talented individuals and hope they do something.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
Did he? I thought that was one of his gripes that he didn't have any power to bring in who he wanted and when...That was done by our dear Levy.

I remeber him saying - "Maybe the club need to change my title and description. My job now is to coach the team. Of course I am the boss deciding the strategy to play, training, in my area, but in another area I don't know. Today, I feel like I am the coach."

That was this summer though wasn't it when he was potentially trying to apply pressure on Levy to get deals done. I don't think many people took notice of it then apart from thinking that was what he was up to. If anything there was a surprise at his stance and we felt it disruptive. Conversely he'd wanted to quit only a month or so beforehand, so maybe Levy had attempted to take some power away from him. There's no doubt before then he was the major voice in deciding who to buy. It's why ITK have indicated he played a contributing part to the summer 2018 disaster window by only wanting certain players and turning down other options. Like always we will never know the full picture, I choose to think it was a result of everyone dropping the ball. That's why I find it hard to apportion blame to one individual, I'd rather blame the collective!
 
Last edited:

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,865
16,054
I'll say it again, this is weird. When we win we're always 'lucky' when we lose it's never unlucky. It's the negative that always counts wether that be the teams performance or an individual player.

Not aimed at you yusrisafri but the sheer weight of ignorance, pettiness and sourness on here at times like this is actually depressing to read and it's also weird how, when there's negativity to be had how a number of people seem to thrive on it. I can't be arsed to argue it much any more because there's no pleasing some people, there's no meeting in the middle, no concession just this steadfast maintaining of a negative position and a refusal to accept any sort of mitigation, people take a position and take it to an extreme and then refuse to budge. Even slightly.

It's just so draining.

It's bad enough watching the team play without coming on here only to see people at each others throats over a fucking game of football or people who rightly or wrongly, give the impression that over the top negativity actually gives them real life steel girder hard-ons. There's way of discussing things without being, as we all can be, total dickheads totally lacking in objectivity about it. I must have had about twenty PM's from people complaining that so-and-so is being abusive or a spiteful troll etc etc, we can do without all that surely.

We're not nearly as low as we could be, some of you should remember that. We all want us to be playing better football, we all want us to finish in the top 4 and this season we probably won't. It wasn't that long ago that top 4 wasn't good enough for some people. People should remember that too.

This has been coming. There's no point in going over the reasons again that's all been covered but it's been coming and if anyone thought changing the manager was going to solve what's broken then they were wrong because it was obviously a lot more than that. So perhaps don't write that off so readily like some are doing.

Now people are complaining about the 'style'. As if it's as simple as Jose saying "Here lads, knock it about at the back a bit, play it around midfield, bash bash bosh, score a goal. Holland in 1974 style. Throw in a few dragbacks, nutmegs and Cruyff turns while you're at it will you please?" Fuck me. I can't believe we still haven't won the league. We could just as easily lose by knocking it about. Come to think of it, we were losing when we were knocking it about. And people were complaining about that too.

Hasn't the penny fucking dropped yet? Perhaps it's not the managers, or us 'knocking it about', instead of people arguing about Mourinho, Dele or whoever we should be talking about how the squad was allowed to decline, how we failed, when the time was so obviously right, to freshen up the squad, how we failed, over a number of transfer windows, to even address certain positions. Or in some cases to even sign a player, because there's where what we're seeing now has its roots.

Was it Pochettino who said the rebuild was going to be painful? Well here it is and surprise surprise, its painful and performances as well as results are reflecting that. It was hardly going to be painful otherwise was it. There is no magic switch, the squad needs work doing to it and thankfully, we've started to address that but it'll take time. Yeah, yeah, I know, SC doesn't do 'time' :D

But of course, the die hard negativistas won't have any of the above. It's Mourinho, it's Dele, its its and its again and again and again..........It's everything except negligence at the very top.

Meh. Bollocks, shit, piss and wank. Tell me what a silly **** I am. Go on, go start a thread about it on FTL :D

TLDR; Some people will never be happy, we're all ****s :playful:
Post of the year but it is already being ignored.
 
D

Deleted member 27995

I'll say it again, this is weird. When we win we're always 'lucky' when we lose it's never unlucky. It's the negative that always counts wether that be the teams performance or an individual player.

Not aimed at you yusrisafri but the sheer weight of ignorance, pettiness and sourness on here at times like this is actually depressing to read and it's also weird how, when there's negativity to be had how a number of people seem to thrive on it. I can't be arsed to argue it much any more because there's no pleasing some people, there's no meeting in the middle, no concession just this steadfast maintaining of a negative position and a refusal to accept any sort of mitigation, people take a position and take it to an extreme and then refuse to budge. Even slightly.

It's just so draining.

It's bad enough watching the team play without coming on here only to see people at each others throats over a fucking game of football or people who rightly or wrongly, give the impression that over the top negativity actually gives them real life steel girder hard-ons. There's way of discussing things without being, as we all can be, total dickheads totally lacking in objectivity about it. I must have had about twenty PM's from people complaining that so-and-so is being abusive or a spiteful troll etc etc, we can do without all that surely.

We're not nearly as low as we could be, some of you should remember that. We all want us to be playing better football, we all want us to finish in the top 4 and this season we probably won't. It wasn't that long ago that top 4 wasn't good enough for some people. People should remember that too.

This has been coming. There's no point in going over the reasons again that's all been covered but it's been coming and if anyone thought changing the manager was going to solve what's broken then they were wrong because it was obviously a lot more than that. So perhaps don't write that off so readily like some are doing.

Now people are complaining about the 'style'. As if it's as simple as Jose saying "Here lads, knock it about at the back a bit, play it around midfield, bash bash bosh, score a goal. Holland in 1974 style. Throw in a few dragbacks, nutmegs and Cruyff turns while you're at it will you please?" Fuck me. I can't believe we still haven't won the league. We could just as easily lose by knocking it about. Come to think of it, we were losing when we were knocking it about. And people were complaining about that too.

Hasn't the penny fucking dropped yet? Perhaps it's not the managers, or us 'knocking it about', instead of people arguing about Mourinho, Dele or whoever we should be talking about how the squad was allowed to decline, how we failed, when the time was so obviously right, to freshen up the squad, how we failed, over a number of transfer windows, to even address certain positions. Or in some cases to even sign a player, because there's where what we're seeing now has its roots.

Was it Pochettino who said the rebuild was going to be painful? Well here it is and surprise surprise, its painful and performances as well as results are reflecting that. It was hardly going to be painful otherwise was it. There is no magic switch, the squad needs work doing to it and thankfully, we've started to address that but it'll take time. Yeah, yeah, I know, SC doesn't do 'time' :D

But of course, the die hard negativistas won't have any of the above. It's Mourinho, it's Dele, its its and its again and again and again..........It's everything except negligence at the very top.

Meh. Bollocks, shit, piss and wank. Tell me what a silly **** I am. Go on, go start a thread about it on FTL :D

TLDR; Some people will never be happy, we're all ****s :playful:
Sorry bout that.
 

Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,926
8,490
Shitty oneliners and people moaning about other people moaning. It's like you're actively trying to force me to get meaningful work done.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
but hold on, your whole argument for the last few days was we wouldn’t play as badly as that, and in that style if we had Kane and Son, and I have just proved to you that we did against the same opponents just 6 weeks ago. We were already 2 down before a player was dismissed by the way, so that doesn’t come into it.
Opposition, home or away, what team we put out, it doesn’t matter, at the moment our game plan is the same and has been for last 3 months, we are basically playing roulette, and hoping that our attackers can somehow produce a rabbit out of a hat and score more goals than opponents given half the chances that we let the opponents have.
I want to give Jose chance to see what he can do with a few more players of his choosing in the summer, but at the moment it really is appalling football.
I don’t mind taking one step backwards if it means we will take 2 steps forward down the line, However there has to be some glimmer of light with the way we are playing, at the moment there isn’t.
Im not so sure, if I was footing the bill I'm not sure I'd have bankrolled another Poch 5 year cycle, considering the last one ended completely potless.
Was Jose the right choice? far too early to say, but considering the rumours that if Poch stayed then some of our big hitters wanted out...I can see why Levy made the choice he did considering one of the most successful managers in the modern game was available and interested.

And all the posters moaning about the style of play and pining for Poch seem to have conveniently forgotten how awful we were to watch for most of last season and this season.
If we are still watching the same negative stuff into next season then yeah, have a moan.
I don’t think those of us who aren’t enjoying the style of play under Jose are ignoring how awful we were to watch towards the end of the Poch era but simply stating that this current football is dire, it’s anti football so is far less enjoyable that when we were dire at the start of this season and the main concern is that Jose has previous of playing this way so it’s very unlikely that with new signings etc we’ll suddenly be playing scintillating football.

As someone pointed out earlier we had son and Kane against Chelsea at home and we sat off as usual and got completely dominated, sorry but it doesn’t bode well for the enjoyment factor, sport is about winning but there has to be an element of enjoyment there as well and this is the first time possibly in 30 years of supporting us that against Chelsea on tv I just wasn’t motivated to watch the game because I knew there would be nothing to get excited about which apart from a lucky lamela goal there really wasn’t.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
...the great Danny Blanchlower said “"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.“
The irony, fishy, is that you’ve missed the point. Yes, Blanchflower was talking about winning with style, but the fundamental point is he was still talking about winning. He was saying it’s better to win well than win badly, not that it was better to lose well than win badly.

And even though he wrote it in 1972, he was still talking from his place as an exemplar of winning. Although the gloss had faded a little, Spurs at the time were considered one of the giants of the game because of our dominance in the 60s.

If one looks deeper into some of the things that Danny Blanchflower said, you can see that, for him, winning was the most important thing, not style.

Words such as, "We aim to equalise before the other team score. We should get our retaliation in first."

Or when asked by an interviewer what the secret to [at that point] Spurs winning every game they'd played that season. His reply was, "Most probably because in each match we have scored more goals than our opponents."

Those are the words of someone for whom winning is most important. He didn't say that the secret to winning every game had been, "we played beautiful football".

It's all well and good talking of glory and beauty and style when things are going well, but when things are going badly they're nothing but platitudes.

How about this axiom: "You should cut your coat to fit your cloth"?

At the moment, on the pitch, we are in a bad place - we're vulnerable and brittle. Right now, we need to exercise pragmatism, get our heads down and ride through the storm as best we can. If that means shithousery, so be it; if it means playing grindy football, so be it; if it means we can't celebrate hatfuls of goals every match, so be it. And if it's pragmatism that is the order of the day currently, and it is, then I can't think of a better person to bring that pragmatic approach than Mourinho.

Do you think that Blanchflower would speak glowingly of our also-ran campaigns extending nearly thirty years (the odd beacon of success notwithstanding)? Do you think he'd be waxing lyrical about reaching a Champions League final and losing (that's not an attack on Pochettino before I get dragged over the coals)? No, he wouldn't.

I have little doubt that Blanchflower would have celebrated our dynamic style under our previous manager, but he would also recognise the dire straits we're currently in and I'm sure he'd be devastated by the fact that we've won so little in the last few years.

Blanchflower was considered a true gentleman - witty, urbane, and generous. He certainly wouldn't be so ungentlemanly as to be deriding his manager three months into his tenure; he wouldn't be so ungentlemanly as to not give someone an opportunity to prove himself; he wouldn't be so ungentlemanly as to abuse someone at a distance (not that I'm accusing you of that, speaking generally).

Perhaps we should follow in the example he would set and remember something else the great man once said: "Ideas are funny things. They only work if you do." Maybe we should put in some work too?
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
I'll say it again, this is weird. When we win we're always 'lucky' when we lose it's never unlucky. It's the negative that always counts wether that be the teams performance or an individual player.

Not aimed at you yusrisafri but the sheer weight of ignorance, pettiness and sourness on here at times like this is actually depressing to read and it's also weird how, when there's negativity to be had how a number of people seem to thrive on it. I can't be arsed to argue it much any more because there's no pleasing some people, there's no meeting in the middle, no concession just this steadfast maintaining of a negative position and a refusal to accept any sort of mitigation, people take a position and take it to an extreme and then refuse to budge. Even slightly.

It's just so draining.

It's bad enough watching the team play without coming on here only to see people at each others throats over a fucking game of football or people who rightly or wrongly, give the impression that over the top negativity actually gives them real life steel girder hard-ons. There's way of discussing things without being, as we all can be, total dickheads totally lacking in objectivity about it. I must have had about twenty PM's from people complaining that so-and-so is being abusive or a spiteful troll etc etc, we can do without all that surely.

We're not nearly as low as we could be, some of you should remember that. We all want us to be playing better football, we all want us to finish in the top 4 and this season we probably won't. It wasn't that long ago that top 4 wasn't good enough for some people. People should remember that too.

This has been coming. There's no point in going over the reasons again that's all been covered but it's been coming and if anyone thought changing the manager was going to solve what's broken then they were wrong because it was obviously a lot more than that. So perhaps don't write that off so readily like some are doing.

Now people are complaining about the 'style'. As if it's as simple as Jose saying "Here lads, knock it about at the back a bit, play it around midfield, bash bash bosh, score a goal. Holland in 1974 style. Throw in a few dragbacks, nutmegs and Cruyff turns while you're at it will you please?" Fuck me. I can't believe we still haven't won the league. We could just as easily lose by knocking it about. Come to think of it, we were losing when we were knocking it about. And people were complaining about that too.

Hasn't the penny fucking dropped yet? Perhaps it's not the managers, or us 'knocking it about', instead of people arguing about Mourinho, Dele or whoever we should be talking about how the squad was allowed to decline, how we failed, when the time was so obviously right, to freshen up the squad, how we failed, over a number of transfer windows, to even address certain positions. Or in some cases to even sign a player, because there's where what we're seeing now has its roots.

Was it Pochettino who said the rebuild was going to be painful? Well here it is and surprise surprise, its painful and performances as well as results are reflecting that. It was hardly going to be painful otherwise was it. There is no magic switch, the squad needs work doing to it and thankfully, we've started to address that but it'll take time. Yeah, yeah, I know, SC doesn't do 'time' :D

But of course, the die hard negativistas won't have any of the above. It's Mourinho, it's Dele, its its and its again and again and again..........It's everything except negligence at the very top.

Meh. Bollocks, shit, piss and wank. Tell me what a silly **** I am. Go on, go start a thread about it on FTL :D

TLDR; Some people will never be happy, we're all ****s :playful:

Yep the Mourinho appointment is really set to divide the fans, both here and in the stadium and it is depressing. I mean I’ve been going to WHL long enough to know Spurs fans love a good old moan, but this feels different.

Thing is, it’s only going to get worse as we’re still 5th, but by the end of March I think we’ll be closer to 10th.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,907
78,645
I don’t think those of us who aren’t enjoying the style of play under Jose are ignoring how awful we were to watch towards the end of the Poch era but simply stating that this current football is dire, it’s anti football so is far less enjoyable that when we were dire at the start of this season and the main concern is that Jose has previous of playing this way so it’s very unlikely that with new signings etc we’ll suddenly be playing scintillating football.

As someone pointed out earlier we had son and Kane against Chelsea at home and we sat off as usual and got completely dominated, sorry but it doesn’t bode well for the enjoyment factor, sport is about winning but there has to be an element of enjoyment there as well and this is the first time possibly in 30 years of supporting us that against Chelsea on tv I just wasn’t motivated to watch the game because I knew there would be nothing to get excited about which apart from a lucky lamela goal there really wasn’t.
Sorry but the first 3 months of this season, bar the Palace game, were utterly hopeless. Each game that passed was another nail in the coffin, yet there didn't seem to be any corner on the horizon. Watching us move the ball around the pitch with no drive or intensity, only to lose it and within two passes we've conceded again. It was all very depressing and the writing was very much on the wall. We did get at least a few weeks of exciting swift attacking play with Jose before injuries set in and performances worsened.

I've said a lot on this matter now so I'm going to stop. If we are still seeing these performances and bad results in November/December then I will be fully on board the 'Jose out' brigade but until then I'm going to support him and hope he gets the tools he needs to make it work.

A lot of these performances we are seeing were similar to Jose's first season at United but he then had a summer to bring in who he needed and they were much better in the second season. Very effective in fact. Scoring something like 12 goals and conceding 1 in 4 games
 
D

Deleted member 27995

The irony, fishy, is that you’ve missed the point. Yes, Blanchflower was talking about winning with style, but the fundamental point is he was still talking about winning. He was saying it’s better to win well than win badly, not that it was better to lose well than win badly.

And even though he wrote it in 1972, he was still talking from his place as an exemplar of winning. Although the gloss had faded a little, Spurs at the time were considered one of the giants of the game because of our dominance in the 60s.

If one looks deeper into some of the things that Danny Blanchflower said, you can see that, for him, winning was the most important thing, not style.

Words such as, "We aim to equalise before the other team score. We should get our retaliation in first."

Or when asked by an interviewer what the secret to [at that point] Spurs winning every game they'd played that season. His reply was, "Most probably because in each match we have scored more goals than our opponents."

Those are the words of someone for whom winning is most important. He didn't say that the secret to winning every game had been, "we played beautiful football".

It's all well and good talking of glory and beauty and style when things are going well, but when things are going badly they're nothing but platitudes.

How about this axiom: "You should cut your coat to fit your cloth"?

At the moment, on the pitch, we are in a bad place - we're vulnerable and brittle. Right now, we need to exercise pragmatism, get our heads down and ride through the storm as best we can. If that means shithousery, so be it; if it means playing grindy football, so be it; if it means we can't celebrate hatfuls of goals every match, so be it. And if it's pragmatism that is the order of the day currently, and it is, then I can't think of a better person to bring that pragmatic approach than Mourinho.

Do you think that Blanchflower would speak glowingly of our also-ran campaigns extending nearly thirty years (the odd beacon of success notwithstanding)? Do you think he'd be waxing lyrical about reaching a Champions League final and losing (that's not an attack on Pochettino before I get dragged over the coals)? No, he wouldn't.

I have little doubt that Blanchflower would have celebrated our dynamic style under our previous manager, but he would also recognise the dire straits we're currently in and I'm sure he'd be devastated by the fact that we've won so little in the last few years.

Blanchflower was considered a true gentleman - witty, urbane, and generous. He certainly wouldn't be so ungentlemanly as to be deriding his manager three months into his tenure; he wouldn't be so ungentlemanly as to not give someone an opportunity to prove himself; he wouldn't be so ungentlemanly as to abuse someone at a distance (not that I'm accusing you of that, speaking generally).

Perhaps we should follow in the example he would set and remember something else the great man once said: "Ideas are funny things. They only work if you do." Maybe we should put in some work too?
If I could put my point over as eloquently as this I think less people would take issue with that I post.
 
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