The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - Groundhog Day you say? Groundhog Day you say?

Bulletspur said:

If I recall correctly, Winks is the only youth player that has been promoted into the seniors by Poch (I do not include the occasional bench warmers like Onomah, Edwards and co). Players like Bentaleb, Townsend and Mason he inherited from Sherwood's / AVB's reign, where they were then moved on. My point is the myth Poch promoted and encouraged the youth was exactly that, a myth.

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Archibald&Crooks said:

I think the idea of Poch promoting youth is seen differently at club/professional level than it is by us. He gave enough of them a taste of first team football no matter how fleeting and for a young footballer that's a no small thing. Even being in the squad or travelling to games would be a fantastic learning experience for many of them. For us, it's so what he didn't get much game time and that's about it.

The way I look at it is if they were good enough, they'd have been picked more often. I don't care how many actually made the breakthrough, Poch gave young footballers a chance IMO, its not exclusive to promoting from within. There seems to be this acceptance that he had to 'discover' them or be the first one to have picked them and I don't feel that way either, IIRC (and I may well be wrong here) we had one of the youngest, if not the youngest team in the Premier League competing at the very highest level and that's no mean achievement, no matter who was responsible for discovering them, signing them or feeding them on Farley Rusks. He took a bunch of young footballers and made them into a top team. IMO that's where he got his reputation from.

There's also another factor. As we got more and more 'successful' it became harder to do. It's much more difficult to take someone from the youth team and give them as lot of game time. Had he done so and not got results you can bet both your bollocks we'd have been on his case for not taking it seriously, picking the wrong team and all the rest of it. Could he have done that a bit more? Probably but I really don't think we missed out on the next big thing because he didn't.

Anyway, I think that overall he did more than OK for us and I won't spend too much time dwelling on wether or not he did this and that, all managers do stuff differently and we'll all have a different view on it. Mine might well be a load of bollocks though TBF

Overall, the guy is a legend, sadly it went wrong, probably due to a number of factors most of which we've all named but we'll never truly have the truth on.

Thank you for reading me, my names A&C, goodnight.

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Archibald&Crooks said:

I think the idea of Poch promoting youth is seen differently at club/professional level than it is by us. He gave enough of them a taste of first team football no matter how fleeting and for a young footballer that's a no small thing. Even being in the squad or travelling to games would be a fantastic learning experience for many of them. For us, it's so what he didn't get much game time and that's about it.

The way I look at it is if they were good enough, they'd have been picked more often. I don't care how many actually made the breakthrough, Poch gave young footballers a chance IMO, its not exclusive to promoting from within. There seems to be this acceptance that he had to 'discover' them or be the first one to have picked them and I don't feel that way either, IIRC (and I may well be wrong here) we had one of the youngest, if not the youngest team in the Premier League competing at the very highest level and that's no mean achievement, no matter who was responsible for discovering them, signing them or feeding them on Farley Rusks. He took a bunch of young footballers and made them into a top team. IMO that's where he got his reputation from.

There's also another factor. As we got more and more 'successful' it became harder to do. It's much more difficult to take someone from the youth team and give them as lot of game time. Had he done so and not got results you can bet both your bollocks we'd have been on his case for not taking it seriously, picking the wrong team and all the rest of it. Could he have done that a bit more? Probably but I really don't think we missed out on the next big thing because he didn't.

Anyway, I think that overall he did more than OK for us and I won't spend too much time dwelling on wether or not he did this and that, all managers do stuff differently and we'll all have a different view on it. Mine might well be a load of bollocks though TBF

Overall, the guy is a legend, sadly it went wrong, probably due to a number of factors most of which we've all named but we'll never truly have the truth on.

Thank you for reading me, my names A&C, goodnight.

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Archibald&Crooks said:

I think the idea of Poch promoting youth is seen differently at club/professional level than it is by us. He gave enough of them a taste of first team football no matter how fleeting and for a young footballer that's a no small thing. Even being in the squad or travelling to games would be a fantastic learning experience for many of them. For us, it's so what he didn't get much game time and that's about it.

The way I look at it is if they were good enough, they'd have been picked more often. I don't care how many actually made the breakthrough, Poch gave young footballers a chance IMO, its not exclusive to promoting from within. There seems to be this acceptance that he had to 'discover' them or be the first one to have picked them and I don't feel that way either, IIRC (and I may well be wrong here) we had one of the youngest, if not the youngest team in the Premier League competing at the very highest level and that's no mean achievement, no matter who was responsible for discovering them, signing them or feeding them on Farley Rusks. He took a bunch of young footballers and made them into a top team. IMO that's where he got his reputation from.

There's also another factor. As we got more and more 'successful' it became harder to do. It's much more difficult to take someone from the youth team and give them as lot of game time. Had he done so and not got results you can bet both your bollocks we'd have been on his case for not taking it seriously, picking the wrong team and all the rest of it. Could he have done that a bit more? Probably but I really don't think we missed out on the next big thing because he didn't.

Anyway, I think that overall he did more than OK for us and I won't spend too much time dwelling on wether or not he did this and that, all managers do stuff differently and we'll all have a different view on it. Mine might well be a load of bollocks though TBF

Overall, the guy is a legend, sadly it went wrong, probably due to a number of factors most of which we've all named but we'll never truly have the truth on.

Thank you for reading me, my names A&C, goodnight.

Click to expand...

Archibald&Crooks said:

I think the idea of Poch promoting youth is seen differently at club/professional level than it is by us. He gave enough of them a taste of first team football no matter how fleeting and for a young footballer that's a no small thing. Even being in the squad or travelling to games would be a fantastic learning experience for many of them. For us, it's so what he didn't get much game time and that's about it.

The way I look at it is if they were good enough, they'd have been picked more often. I don't care how many actually made the breakthrough, Poch gave young footballers a chance IMO, its not exclusive to promoting from within. There seems to be this acceptance that he had to 'discover' them or be the first one to have picked them and I don't feel that way either, IIRC (and I may well be wrong here) we had one of the youngest, if not the youngest team in the Premier League competing at the very highest level and that's no mean achievement, no matter who was responsible for discovering them, signing them or feeding them on Farley Rusks. He took a bunch of young footballers and made them into a top team. IMO that's where he got his reputation from.

There's also another factor. As we got more and more 'successful' it became harder to do. It's much more difficult to take someone from the youth team and give them as lot of game time. Had he done so and not got results you can bet both your bollocks we'd have been on his case for not taking it seriously, picking the wrong team and all the rest of it. Could he have done that a bit more? Probably but I really don't think we missed out on the next big thing because he didn't.

Anyway, I think that overall he did more than OK for us and I won't spend too much time dwelling on wether or not he did this and that, all managers do stuff differently and we'll all have a different view on it. Mine might well be a load of bollocks though TBF

Overall, the guy is a legend, sadly it went wrong, probably due to a number of factors most of which we've all named but we'll never truly have the truth on.

Thank you for reading me, my names A&C, goodnight.

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stonebrow said:

No, did well but didn’t do anything to warrant being called a legend

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Archibald&Crooks said:

I think the idea of Poch promoting youth is seen differently at club/professional level than it is by us. He gave enough of them a taste of first team football no matter how fleeting and for a young footballer that's a no small thing. Even being in the squad or travelling to games would be a fantastic learning experience for many of them. For us, it's so what he didn't get much game time and that's about it.

The way I look at it is if they were good enough, they'd have been picked more often. I don't care how many actually made the breakthrough, Poch gave young footballers a chance IMO, its not exclusive to promoting from within. There seems to be this acceptance that he had to 'discover' them or be the first one to have picked them and I don't feel that way either, IIRC (and I may well be wrong here) we had one of the youngest, if not the youngest team in the Premier League competing at the very highest level and that's no mean achievement, no matter who was responsible for discovering them, signing them or feeding them on Farley Rusks. He took a bunch of young footballers and made them into a top team. IMO that's where he got his reputation from.

There's also another factor. As we got more and more 'successful' it became harder to do. It's much more difficult to take someone from the youth team and give them as lot of game time. Had he done so and not got results you can bet both your bollocks we'd have been on his case for not taking it seriously, picking the wrong team and all the rest of it. Could he have done that a bit more? Probably but I really don't think we missed out on the next big thing because he didn't.

Anyway, I think that overall he did more than OK for us and I won't spend too much time dwelling on wether or not he did this and that, all managers do stuff differently and we'll all have a different view on it. Mine might well be a load of bollocks though TBF

Overall, the guy is a legend, sadly it went wrong, probably due to a number of factors most of which we've all named but we'll never truly have the truth on.

Thank you for reading me, my names A&C, goodnight.

Click to expand...

stonebrow said:

No, did well but didn’t do anything to warrant being called a legend

Click to expand...

Archibald&Crooks said:

I think the idea of Poch promoting youth is seen differently at club/professional level than it is by us. He gave enough of them a taste of first team football no matter how fleeting and for a young footballer that's a no small thing. Even being in the squad or travelling to games would be a fantastic learning experience for many of them. For us, it's so what he didn't get much game time and that's about it.

The way I look at it is if they were good enough, they'd have been picked more often. I don't care how many actually made the breakthrough, Poch gave young footballers a chance IMO, its not exclusive to promoting from within. There seems to be this acceptance that he had to 'discover' them or be the first one to have picked them and I don't feel that way either, IIRC (and I may well be wrong here) we had one of the youngest, if not the youngest team in the Premier League competing at the very highest level and that's no mean achievement, no matter who was responsible for discovering them, signing them or feeding them on Farley Rusks. He took a bunch of young footballers and made them into a top team. IMO that's where he got his reputation from.

There's also another factor. As we got more and more 'successful' it became harder to do. It's much more difficult to take someone from the youth team and give them as lot of game time. Had he done so and not got results you can bet both your bollocks we'd have been on his case for not taking it seriously, picking the wrong team and all the rest of it. Could he have done that a bit more? Probably but I really don't think we missed out on the next big thing because he didn't.

Anyway, I think that overall he did more than OK for us and I won't spend too much time dwelling on wether or not he did this and that, all managers do stuff differently and we'll all have a different view on it. Mine might well be a load of bollocks though TBF

Overall, the guy is a legend, sadly it went wrong, probably due to a number of factors most of which we've all named but we'll never truly have the truth on.

Thank you for reading me, my names A&C, goodnight.

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wrd said:

I understood his logic at the time of keeping them developing in our ethos but we saw a couple of the most promising players like KWP and Onomah suffer and the fact that they are the only 2 of the 11 who won that youth world cup not playing regularly either in the prem or bundesliga over the past 18 months does make it look worse imo.

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BringBack_leGin said:

Tanganga is a centre back long term I imagine but he could end up a far better centre back for having 18 months playing fairly often as a right back, it will help him learn a lot about the way teams construct attacks and how to defend them, while also ensuring he gets regular football.

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Archibald&Crooks said:

See this is another thing I'm not entirely sure I agree on, the need for him to loan out players or indeed that he's entirely responsible for not doing so. This is again one of those things we decide upon without knowing the facts. Do we know who is actually responsible for youth development? What input does he have on deciding who goes out on loan. Who decides when a player is ready for that. I feel the balance of probability is that Poch would be guided by those who know the player best. That they'd have a chat about certain players and decide how to proceed from there. It's not all 'on Poch' as people used to like to say.

Is a player ready to go out on loan
Would a player benefit more from being around the squad/training with the first team etc etc
Can we actually find that player a suitable club
If we can, does that club want to take him, does that player want to go there

For sure there are instances where we can't understand why this or that player didn't get farmed out but we don't know the inside story enough to make a definitive judgement on it, certainly not enough to blame it on Pochettino. IMO if we asked the question of someone who knows the full story and actually got an answer, we'd look at it and go ""oh yeah, makes sense I suppose". At the end of the day, some players go out on loan, some don't......

We all know about Urban Legends right? IMO there's a lot of 'Spurban Legends" floating around SC, people say stuff often enough and it becomes fact. This player sulks (he doesn't), that player is too big for his boots because he points (He's not) and so on........I think this youth thing, in the grand scheme of Poch's tenure isn't a massive deal but it's seemingly become one. No idea why but for me........spurban legend.

*Reads the above

Fucking hell, I don't know what's happening to me, it must be that osmosis thing again

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Archibald&Crooks said:

I must be BSoMP

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BringBack_leGin said:

Or just drunk...

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