What's new

The Mauricio Pochettino thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
I think Pochs problem and the players problems is that Poch is a fanatical micro manager. You only have to look at how tentatively the players pass the ball around in defence to know that these players are listening to the little Poch in their heads. There is too much tension in the players. I really think that Pochs micro managing is hurting the players instincts and their freedom. Maybe against a team like Red Star,the players get more time but in general I think they all seem tightened up when they should be more relaxed.
Just look at Pochs demeaner.
Some players can brush that off but others cant. Sanchez for instance seemed to come to Tottenham relaxed and cool and after the first few weeks suffered tension in his play. I think its Pochs micro managing.
Managers should give their players discipline and balance that with trust.If the manager squeezes too much the players will choke (If he gives them too much freedom (Schnapps) its also not good.
Balance.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
I think Pochs problem and the players problems is that Poch is a fanatical micro manager. You only have to look at how tentatively the players pass the ball around in defence to know that these players are listening to the little Poch in their heads. There is too much tension in the players. I really think that Pochs micro managing is hurting the players instincts and their freedom. Maybe against a team like Red Star,the players get more time but in general I think they all seem tightened up when they should be more relaxed.
Just look at Pochs demeaner.
Some players can brush that off but others cant. Sanchez for instance seemed to come to Tottenham relaxed and cool and after the first few weeks suffered tension in his play. I think its Pochs micro managing.
Managers should give their players discipline and balance that with trust.If the manager squeezes too much the players will choke (If he gives them too much freedom (Schnapps) its also not good.
Balance.

On the flip side I'd be surprised if Poch was telling them to stand off and not press their opponents so not sure I buy that.
 

-Afri-Coy-

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2012
5,838
18,570
As crazy as this may seem, we are only 3 points off 5th place, even with the horrendous season we are having. Not that we aren't completely in meltdown which is how it feels right now, it's still only 3 points and Europe is far from over for us.
 

SirHarryHotspur

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
5,007
7,434
Simple fact is that spurs in the CL is infinitely more attractive to sponsors, corporates etc, and ultimately to be sold, than a spurs finishing lower mid table. Levy isn't an idiot and will know this.

Unfortunately the time to pull the trigger has come and gone so the best thing (in his eyes) I'm sure will be to just get through to Jan and try and fix as best we can. CL and probably European football is 100% gone.

Such a shame that 5 years good work is pissed away in less than 3 months. Excellent achievement that chaps ??

European football won't be 100% gone until we get knocked out of this season's FA cup, so we could end up mid table (or relegated ala Wigan) and FA Cup winners with Europa League next season , would that be considered a successful season or a bad season because of failing to make top four ?
 

McFlash

In the corner, eating crayons.
Oct 19, 2005
12,740
45,363
Well, thats interesting. Ornstein is no bullshitter.

Edit: you missed out the paragraph before which is pretty important!

Hansi Flick is expected to continue in his role as Bayern’s interim boss through to the end of the season, at which point, the German champions will ideally secure a permanent appointment. Not only does that give Flick a chance to steady the ship and save Bayern having to make a definitive call mid-season, but it keeps them open to options which do not currently exist.
Herr Flick?
There's some comedy gold there...
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
On the flip side I'd be surprised if Poch was telling them to stand off and not press their opponents so not sure I buy that.

That's a good point. I do think he does micro manage them and I do think his emotions have an effect on theirs (didn't Mourinhos?)
Im not sure why we didn't even attempt to press and yet the whole team didn't seem to press unless they are not buying into his ideas
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
As crazy as this may seem, we are only 3 points off 5th place, even with the horrendous season we are having. Not that we aren't completely in meltdown which is how it feels right now, it's still only 3 points and Europe is far from over for us.

You are right,its crazy
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
If you can't rebuttal what is a very fair and straightforward post it says a lot more about your argument, its weak. You have zero basis for blaming the chairman for this current predicament and I am yet to hear a compelling argument from those who think the same - it's the equivalent of sticking two fingers in your ears and shouting at the top of your voice, just face up to reality and admit it.

Levy isn't blameless but he doesn't control what goes on in the pitch and you have to say that this summer he did what wasn't expected of him and backed the manager.

Whilst he did get us the 3 of the targets Poch wanted, we still had/have such a situation where 3 players was simply not going to do it and the events of the summer before left us with a mountain to climb in the transfer window. We failed to clear the decks for 2 seasons so that we had space for replacements and Poch was seemingly keen all summer to point out that he was not in control of that situation. He have 3 new players over 2 years, I wouldn't call that backing the manager I'd call that the start of backing the manager. We've been told we couldn't get Fernandes because Eriksen wouldn't leave. It sounds like from somebody's info in here that we told Trippier he could leave thinking we were going to land Aarons which didn't happen so we've been left short at RB. Poch does have control of the pitch and the responsibility lies with him because we still have quality to get better results than what wehave but what Levy does and didn't do certainly does impact what we see on the pitch. We have left ourselves a mountain to climb with the summer of 2018.
 

TOMSPURS

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
127
745
The easiest solution when a team underperforms is to sack the manager, without investigating or solving other contributory factors.
Personally I don't see a way back for Poch now, but I do have sympathy for him. He significantly overachieved in the original targets Levy set him & is now partly a victim of his own success.
I don't buy into the current talk that the squad is past it. Toby, Jan, Harry etc. continue to perform for their Countries, for some reason they look different players at Spurs. Did Levy become too hands on regarding the stadium & neglect player contracts and the day to day running of the club?
Poch is now indicating a major rebuild of the team is required. The view seems to be that Levy undermined Poch by not backing him in previous transfer windows. But Frankie DeJong publicly said he came close to joining, so money was obviously available to Poch? Why didn't we pursue alternative options? Is that Poch or Levy's fault?
Klopp has spoken publicly how he wasn't sure about signing Salah, he was convinced by Pools transfer committee.
Rather than just discuss changing manager or chairman, do Spurs need to revert back to a Technical Director & Sporting Director model. Let Levy concentrate on his strengths, namely generating money. Let a coach concentrate on his players. Put professionals and a structure in place that allows people do the job they do best?
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
Whilst he did get us the 3 of the targets Poch wanted, we still had/have such a situation where 3 players was simply not going to do it and the events of the summer before left us with a mountain to climb in the transfer window. We failed to clear the decks for 2 seasons so that we had space for replacements and Poch was seemingly keen all summer to point out that he was not in control of that situation. He have 3 new players over 2 years, I wouldn't call that backing the manager I'd call that the start of backing the manager. We've been told we couldn't get Fernandes because Eriksen wouldn't leave. It sounds like from somebody's info in here that we told Trippier he could leave thinking we were going to land Aarons which didn't happen so we've been left short at RB. Poch does have control of the pitch and the responsibility lies with him because we still have quality to get better results than what wehave but what Levy does and didn't do certainly does impact what we see on the pitch. We have left ourselves a mountain to climb with the summer of 2018.

Who's fault was Colchester and all the other minnows?
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
As crazy as this may seem, we are only 3 points off 5th place, even with the horrendous season we are having. Not that we aren't completely in meltdown which is how it feels right now, it's still only 3 points and Europe is far from over for us.

It's fourth we have to worry about though isn't it. I couldn't really care less about the Europa League. I'm an arrogant Champions League Spurs supporting fan now. Done the hard yards out of Europe and then in the Europa League and don't want to go back to either very much.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Who's fault was Colchester and all the other minnows?

Don't know who's at fault for you failing to read the part where I said: Poch does have control of the pitch and the responsibility lies with him because we still have quality to get better results than what we have
 

wadewill

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2005
3,159
10,446
I'm sorry, the pressure at the moment is not on him because he is a "victim of his own success" by over achieving.

If this was any previous manager in the last 10 years, with the expectation THEY had, not Poch, i think they would have been sacked by now.

Getting a point a game on average from 25 games is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Small minded mentality of people thinking its ok, its not. Even Sky admit we are one of "The Big Six" we are not Tottenham of the Nineties or Noughties. This is not changing and we are not finishing top half is it doesnt.

If this was any other top club we would be laughing, begging for them not to sack their manager.

We are not a million miles away from actually being in the relegation discussion, lose the next two (which is perfectly realistic) and we are really close to that.
 

Ronwol196061

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2018
3,925
3,646
The easiest solution when a team underperforms is to sack the manager, without investigating or solving other contributory factors.
Personally I don't see a way back for Poch now, but I do have sympathy for him. He significantly overachieved in the original targets Levy set him & is now partly a victim of his own success.
I don't buy into the current talk that the squad is past it. Toby, Jan, Harry etc. continue to perform for their Countries, for some reason they look different players at Spurs. Did Levy become too hands on regarding the stadium & neglect player contracts and the day to day running of the club?
Poch is now indicating a major rebuild of the team is required. The view seems to be that Levy undermined Poch by not backing him in previous transfer windows. But Frankie DeJong publicly said he came close to joining, so money was obviously available to Poch? Why didn't we pursue alternative options? Is that Poch or Levy's fault?
Klopp has spoken publicly how he wasn't sure about signing Salah, he was convinced by Pools transfer committee.
Rather than just discuss changing manager or chairman, do Spurs need to revert back to a Technical Director & Sporting Director model. Let Levy concentrate on his strengths, namely generating money. Let a coach concentrate on his players. Put professionals and a structure in place that allows people do the job they do best?

So Klopp explained truthfully how they got Salah? How refreshing,I wish our manager could be a little transparent
Poch is not a grade A manager. He had a plan,it was a good plan as it was in Southampton to make average players tougher and fitter than anyone else.It worked I give him that. The initial plan was good but if you cannot think on your feet ultimately you are doomed.Mant people have had one idea and when that fizzles out what are they left with? Now he needs so much but can Levy really trust him?
 

jimbo

Cabbages
Dec 22, 2003
8,035
7,436
I'm not entirely sure the sights have ever been set on the ownership, not really, not to the extent it should have been. It's only really the last few transfer windows we've seen a slow turning of the worm. He's enjoyed a massively over the top cult status for a very long time now, but much like Pochettino, his achievements should be respected but should ultimately count for nothing, after all, as the people slagging Poch are suggesting, football is an unforgiving business. Some intense focus on shortshanks is long overdue in my onion.

Some of us have been able to appreciate the good things he's done whilst being critical of the areas where he has deserved it. Not many mind, but some.

I think the next managerial appointment, should there be one, will tell us a lot about the intentions of our owners. They have grown us pretty steadily, with a few bumps in the road, but do they intend to continue with attempts to grow further or have they plateaued?

For me, the issues with the stadium and inevitable bedding in period mean that the worm may be craning his neck but is not yet ready for full revolution. In a year, maybe two, that may change - for now the focus is elsewhere.
 

McFlash

In the corner, eating crayons.
Oct 19, 2005
12,740
45,363
Herr Flick?
There's some comedy gold there...
-515206.jpg
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Whilst he did get us the 3 of the targets Poch wanted, we still had/have such a situation where 3 players was simply not going to do it and the events of the summer before left us with a mountain to climb in the transfer window. We failed to clear the decks for 2 seasons so that we had space for replacements and Poch was seemingly keen all summer to point out that he was not in control of that situation. He have 3 new players over 2 years, I wouldn't call that backing the manager I'd call that the start of backing the manager. We've been told we couldn't get Fernandes because Eriksen wouldn't leave. It sounds like from somebody's info in here that we told Trippier he could leave thinking we were going to land Aarons which didn't happen so we've been left short at RB. Poch does have control of the pitch and the responsibility lies with him because we still have quality to get better results than what wehave but what Levy does and didn't do certainly does impact what we see on the pitch. We have left ourselves a mountain to climb with the summer of 2018.

That's fine but can you attribute any of that to our current predicament where we lie 14th in the table with 3 wins out of 12 because I'm really struggling to see it.
 

stevenurse

Palacios' neck fat
May 14, 2007
6,089
10,022
European football won't be 100% gone until we get knocked out of this season's FA cup, so we could end up mid table (or relegated ala Wigan) and FA Cup winners with Europa League next season , would that be considered a successful season or a bad season because of failing to make top four ?

CL is be all and end all. European football alone isnt seen as anything to celebrate anymore. The EL is almost seen as a punishment for not being good enough to finish in the top 4
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top