The Mauricio Pochettino thread

Mr Pink · Nov 11, 2019

dondo said:
And losing 18 games this year so far iirc

Yes, but the point your still not grasping is that the buck has to stop with the manager.

All these players havnt just seen their ability fall of the face of a cliff.

Its so naive to think like that. As a group of players they're far more capable than languishing around 14th in the table.

spursfan77 · Nov 11, 2019

leray said:
Ornstein in The Athletic wrote some stuff about Bayern's search for a new manager. Poch is the main target for them.

As things stand, a sense from within the game is that Tottenham’s Mauricio Pochettino is a prime target, though if the Argentine became available, there would many interested parties.“Pochettino would be the preferred solution,” The Athletic is told.

“If he and Spurs end up splitting, which looks likely, Bayern will do anything to get him. On the other hand, that’s what everyone would do, even Real Madrid and probably Manchester United, who have been aiming at him for a year and a half now. It’s a very difficult option, but that would be Bayern’s priority.”

Also, as things stands right now, Guardiola might not stay in Manchester for next season which would mean that next summer will be massive in terms of managers.

Maybe that's why us, United, Arsenal and Bayern are delaying big decisions.

Well, thats interesting. Ornstein is no bullshitter.

Edit: you missed out the paragraph before which is pretty important!

Hansi Flick is expected to continue in his role as Bayern’s interim boss through to the end of the season, at which point, the German champions will ideally secure a permanent appointment. Not only does that give Flick a chance to steady the ship and save Bayern having to make a definitive call mid-season, but it keeps them open to options which do not currently exist.

cookiemonster · Nov 11, 2019

Hercules said:
Does not bode well. I cannot just sit back and enjoy this dross. ENIC is all about corporate, and less about the football. So much of the corporate suites empty, and much more. Poch should of left in the summer with how he felt, but he didn’t. I would of. Joe Lewis and Daniel Levy too friggin stubborn.

They rather puppets as managers who will play the violin they are given. We are more than likely to loose major, major assets in the summer. They will take in all the cash, and spend piss all in comparison. Our ‘almost there’ days will flicker into the corridors of time. Ten more years will pass with fak all to show for it, but a training complex and stadium.

sadly it is more reality than I can even fathom to have nightmares about. Poch’s fall was his moods and loosing the plot all over the place. Very difficult to get the players back on his side. I sense more backroom staff in important departments of the club will seek pastures new. The asset stripping will gleefully please ENIC, as this will of nullified the stadium debts.

so in conclusion we are damned. And I wish Poch could perform a Lazarus, and awaken us. I would be among the first to applaud him. But in all honesty it is beyond repair now. What a mess. And the ones I feel really sorry for is us tgr fans.

Thats what i have been telling people here for years

They chose to believe in the money grubbing midget Dennis Levy rather than a sesame street muppet

Archibald&Crooks · Nov 11, 2019

Mr Pink said:
Yes, but the point your still not grasping is that the buck has to stop with the manager.

When we were at the crest of the wave, especially back in May, I saw very many people praising Levy to the hilt and giving him massive credit. I'm wondering if now, does the buck also stop with him. That's not to say I'm suggesting Pochettino isn't to blame, but do those same people hold short stuff culpable in the same way he was given credit? When it comes to the club in general, we are where we are due to a combination of factors of which he undoubtably one. Does the buck stop with him too.

In this case, to put it simply, are there actually two bucks that have to stop somewhere

Cochise · Nov 11, 2019

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
Liverpool transfer incoming value each year since Klopp has been in charge:

16/17- €80m
17/18 - €173m
18/19 - €182m
19/20 - €2m

Total €437m

Tottenham transfer incoming value each year since Klopp took over Liverpool:

16/17 - £75m
17/18- £109m
18/19- £0m
19/20- £102m

Add the rest of the Lo Celso money which is rumoured to be around £43.2m we've committed to spending if we make the option permanent:

Total - £329.2m (converted into Euros = €382.03m)

When we look at the figures being spent on quality coming in, our numbers aren't too far off of Klopps numbers really. Current day currency conversion rates make it roughly €54.97 difference (in pounds £47m) for the same duration.

Money has been spent, just not as well as Liverpool have spent it under Klopp it seems. Is this the chairmans fault or the manager, one you claim is the best we've had since the 1960s fault?

I went over this a fair few pages back. Discounting this summers spending, Klopp has spent almost double what Poch has in the same time. Not only that, but they have spent that money on fewer players than us, meaning better players.

wrd · Nov 11, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
When we were at the crest of the wave, especially back in May, I saw very many people praising Levy to the hilt and giving him massive credit. I'm wondering if now, does the buck also stop with him. That's not to say I'm suggesting Pochettino isn't to blame, but do those same people hold short stuff culpable in the same way he was given credit? When it comes to the club in general, we are where we are due to a combination of factors of which he undoubtably one. Does the bucks stop with him too.

In this case, to put it simply, are there actually two bucks that have to stop somewhere

As you say Poch needs to take responsibility for a lot of what has been happening but I don't see Levy getting targeted until a new manager comes in and once we're past the new manager bounce and the realisation sets in that we're not any better off because that manager will have similar constraints that Poch was hamstrung by. Then we'll see a return to the sights being set on the ownership.

double0 · Nov 11, 2019

coys200 said:
Sheffield United starting Xi cost £20m ours was £270m plus Kane. They outplayed us yes outplayed us in every department. Passing fight tactics fitness desire strength. Got f all to do with transfer spending. Personally think the whole club got complacent. Got to a CL final and a big stadium thought we were big shots. Actually forgot you have to put the work in training and on the pitch not just rock up.

You are kidding yourself if you believe Tottenham moving forward doesn’t involve money . Sheffield United played well fair played to them they’re are epl team people including myself have underrated them and talk as if it was a formality. going into the game Shef Utd was above us in the league unbeaten away we’ve had a CL game in between, they had a full week preparation.

Our record hasn’t been great we can all agreed on that the positive we didn’t lose and Pochettino kept certain players out

spursfan77 · Nov 11, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
When we were at the crest of the wave, especially back in May, I saw very many people praising Levy to the hilt and giving him massive credit. I'm wondering if now, does the buck also stop with him. That's not to say I'm suggesting Pochettino isn't to blame, but do those same people hold short stuff culpable in the same way he was given credit? When it comes to the club in general, we are where we are due to a combination of factors of which he undoubtably one. Does the bucks stop with him too.

In this case, to put it simply, are there actually two bucks that have to stop somewhere

Both deserve praise for where the club is today compared to 5 years ago. I don't think anyone can argue that. It's what happens now though isn't it. I don't think Levy wants to sack him, but both men have been in football long enough to know that something has to change. Be it our results, our luck, our manager, our players. But it won't be the chairman. So there isn't much we can do about that.

Deleted member 27995 · Nov 11, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
meh, meh and a further double portion of meh. I'll bet thirty two of my testicles that if I searched Pochettino to Madrid I'd find several fairly recent articles, or 'Spurs form' it's out there if you WANT to see it.

When the media say something about Spurs it's agenda, when they don't it's agenda too. What rubbish, you can't have it both ways, that's world class levels of paranoia or just rank stupidity and given that the stuff you say isn't there actually is, you decide.

My attitude is solely based on the ridiculous and idiotic crap that you (and some others) have a hard on for inflicting on people. You make stuff up without thinking about it and its fucking boring not to mention often ridiculous. And I'm tiresome

I'd bet that those articles are over a month old even more. As for the form ones, I'd take a punt they are written by people on a site that require you to fork over cash to read their 'informed' opinions or sites that people routinely on this site rip the piss out of on a weekly basis.

It's okay though, you keep betting your genitalia on articles written by people that rarely have a good fucking word to say about Spurs, written or spoken.

Like I said, ivory tower.

cookiemonster · Nov 11, 2019

Lighty64 said:
if Klopp really is a better manager, why did it take him 4 years for him to finally finish above us. At the moment Klopp has a very talented 1st XI and was given the backing to do so. this last season and a bit they have hardly suffered any injuries. They are also getting the breaks needed, for example, today if TAA does that on the line he gets a red card and a penalty to City, so why wasn't it a penalty. I have seen many of there games this season and they are getting the breaks. even v us TAA should have received a 2nd yellow and v Villa Mane should have been booked twice before his yellow for diving.

Oh dear...First you are making excuses for our draws/defeats

Now you are making excuses for their victories

Everlasting Seconds · Nov 11, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
When we were at the crest of the wave, especially back in May, I saw very many people praising Levy to the hilt and giving him massive credit. I'm wondering if now, does the buck also stop with him. That's not to say I'm suggesting Pochettino isn't to blame, but do those same people hold short stuff culpable in the same way he was given credit? When it comes to the club in general, we are where we are due to a combination of factors of which he undoubtably one. Does the bucks stop with him too.

In this case, to put it simply, are there actually two bucks that have to stop somewhere

It's very important I believe that Pochettino didn't create this situation single handedly. I very much think that if we could look factually back in the past as a domino effect, the first piece to fall and start the chain reaction that lead to the negative spiral of today wasn't Pochettino.

KILLA_SIN · Nov 11, 2019

Gb160 said:
When the fanbase turns, and I mean really turns, things change very quickly.
Levy's hand will be forced, sentiment won't come into it.

Fans are like the wind Im sure Levy has a better stomach than any of the fanbase

ToDarrenIsToDo · Nov 11, 2019

Cochise said:
I went over this a fair few pages back. Discounting this summers spending, Klopp has spent almost double what Poch has in the same time. Not only that, but they have spent that money on fewer players than us, meaning better players.

Liverpool are a far bigger club than us though so I fully expect them to spend more money on a smaller group of players at a higher quality, especially when we need to balance building a team on the field with the debts accumulated off the field.

We've spent good money on footballers. If we take Leicester as a comparative we can see that they have spent money on a larger amount of players at cheaper value than us but they currently sit 2nd:

Leicester City - Record arrivals

This transfer statistic shows the compact view of the most expensive signings by Leicester in the Overall statistics of current season season.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Ayoze Perez is their 2nd highest transfer fee ever paid at £30m. We must not fall into the mistake of thinking big money = a better player all of the time. Sadly I feel that Poch sees it this way a fair bit but for what it's worth I feel the club spends well whilst doing the right thing at the same time in putting a little of those profits to one side in case we ever need it when top 4 money dries up.

Archibald&Crooks · Nov 11, 2019

Vinny_Sammways_left_peg said:
I'd bet that those articles are over a month old even more. As for the form ones, I'd take a punt they are written by people on a site that require you to fork over cash to read their 'informed' opinions or sites that people routinely on this site rip the piss out of on a weekly basis.

It's okay though, you keep betting your genitalia on articles written by people that rarely have a good fucking word to say about Spurs, written or spoken.

Like I said, ivory tower.

So now there are articles out there but they don't count

haha

thanks for the exchange of views, much appreciated.

wrd said:
As you say Poch needs to take responsibility for a lot of what has been happening but I don't see Levy getting targeted until a new manager comes in and once we're past the new manager bounce and the realisation sets in that we're not any better off because that manager will have similar constraints that Poch was hamstrung by. Then we'll see a return to the sights being set on the ownership.

I'm not entirely sure the sights have ever been set on the ownership, not really, not to the extent it should have been. It's only really the last few transfer windows we've seen a slow turning of the worm. He's enjoyed a massively over the top cult status for a very long time now, but much like Pochettino, his achievements should be respected but should ultimately count for nothing, after all, as the people slagging Poch are suggesting, football is an unforgiving business. Some intense focus on shortshanks is long overdue in my onion.

Cambridge Spur · Nov 11, 2019

cookiemonster said:
Thats what i have been telling people here for years

They chose to believe in the money grubbing midget Dennis Levy rather than a sesame street muppet

Who’s Dennis Levy?

Deleted member 27995 · Nov 11, 2019

This thread highlights how people want to defend both sides of a coin.

Accept it, they both screwed the pooch and if you now think, as a fan, we're part of the 'big time' that you should be getting better - bar the CL run/final - than has been served up in the last year, then what is currently happening at this team is unacceptable.

We drew against (up until the weekend) the worse team in the league and our 'top' manager played five at the back against them.

Meanwhile, baldy looks on and continues to feel this is acceptable - sat in a shiny stadium charging the earth for the dross being served up on the pitch.

Double down last Saturday and people want to make excuses for both.

What a wheeze.

Kspur · Nov 11, 2019

BringBack_leGin said:
I think if Levy/ Enic were to sell, much as I hate saying it, the billionaire plaything route is the only way to go. There’s no point in Enic selling to anybody who wants to run the club sustainably because Enic are doing that about as well as is possible and it’s still not yielding results. If weget sold then it needs to be to owners similar to Liverpool’s, rather than Arsenal’s. This is the unknown.

This is a long term issue though. The current issue is that our season is in a tailspin, and in a way which could also affect future seasons if not remedied fast. Do we give a January war chest to a man who’s got us bottom of the league in points this calendar year, do we give it someone new, or do we stick with the current incumbent but give him squat and hope for a turnaround which currently seems unlikely.

My gut says it will be the latter. None of the three options is particularly appealing in reality. My hope is that against all odds Pochettino turns it around pre Christmas so that he justifies being given spending money in January but I just can’t see this happening.

We’re going to be wildly overpriced vs performance/history though so we’re screwed I’m afraid. Maybe Joe Lewis shuffling off his mortal coil would do it but I can’t see much else.

Deleted member 27995 · Nov 11, 2019

Archibald&Crooks said:
So now there are articles out there but they don't count

haha

thanks for the exchange of views, much appreciated.

I thought you meant currently, as in when the poster I replied to and you picked me up on was talking about current views in the media ... Like right now?

Always happy to share views, while betting those testicles.

Kspur · Nov 11, 2019

Danny1 said:
So let me understand your point:

"It's Levys fault that Poch has had us playing the worst football in nearly 20 years, has amassed 24 points from a possible 75, and rumours of key players wanting to leave because they don't like his methods. Also it's Levys fault that he spent £150m in the Summer (3rd highest of any team), to help get the team he wants, only for Poch to say it's a painful rebuild and we still have a long way to go?"

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Levy is perfect by any means, however none of this is his fault, not even one single bit. There is no excuse for the football we have seen over the past year, there is no excuse for the ridiculous in match decisions, substitutions, lack of tactical awareness that we have seen, and there is no excuse for the sheer lack of effort being put in by the players. None of this can be influenced by the chairman, and is at the control of one man, and that is Poch.

yes it’s levy’s fault

The Opinionated Lurker · Nov 11, 2019

Poch has definitely been sold short by Levy but what can the fans do to get rid of owners?

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