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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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tommyt

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Jul 22, 2005
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October has been a nightmare for Tottenham Hotspur and we are only six days in. They conceded 10 goals in two games, tipping a shaky start to the season into something that looks like a crisis. Three wins from 11 all season tells a story, especially when those were home games against Aston Villa, Crystal Palace and Southampton.
Spurs look nothing like themselves right now and Mauricio Pochettino is under more pressure than he has been since his first few months at the club, back in the autumn of 2014. Is this the natural end of the cycle, or has something gone badly wrong? There is plenty of blame to be shared round, but how culpable are the chairman, the manager and the squad?
The players
When the Brighton players reflected on their 3-0 win over Tottenham, one thing stuck in their minds: the silence. They barely heard a word of encouragement or leadership out of the Spurs players, especially after their captain Hugo Lloris was stretchered off after eight minutes.
Mauricio Pochettino is rarely challenged by the dressing room, perhaps to the group’s detriment, but the most worrying thing about Spurs’ recent troubles is the lack of fight and hunger on the pitch.
For years this was a team who gave everything on the pitch, who would press hard, out-run opponents, and push until the final whistle. But not this season. Before this week, the story of this season had been about surrendering leads in the second half: against Olympiakos, Arsenal and Leicester, before the shock exit to Colchester. This week things got worse as Spurs folded in the second half against Bayern and then barely showed up at Brighton. Brighton’s players admitted privately to feeling like they had outworked as well as outplayed Tottenham.
Of course you can always look at individual errors and bad performances to explain events, and there have been plenty of both: Lloris’s mistakes against Southampton and Brighton, Jan Vertonghen looking flat-footed against Arsenal and Olympiakos, Toby Alderweireld exposed by Bayern and Brighton, Serge Aurier’s lack of concentration, Tanguy Ndombele being off the pace, Christian Eriksen losing all consistency. But when almost every individual is underperforming you have to look for a bigger explanation. And it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that there has been a clear collective dip this season.
This team was always sustained by the commitment levels of the players, eager to put the Pochettino plan into action right down to the last detail. But when that commitment slackens, the whole structure falls apart. Pochettino said recently that the main thing he wanted to fix in the team was that they should “recover this aggressivity” without the ball.
They have not won an away league game since January 20, the worst record in the division, and their performances since then both home and away have largely lacked the intensity and slickness that were hallmarks as recently as 18 months ago. They have picked up as many Premier League points in 2019 as West Ham and Burnley, and fewer than Crystal Palace and Leicester. Their tally of 22 points from 20 Premier League matches since mid-February is borderline relegation form.
Clearly some players do not want to be there any more. Eriksen had his heart set on a move to Real Madrid. Toby Alderweireld wanted out last year. Danny Rose has nearly left three summers in a row. Jan Vertonghen is in his final year. Ever since Kyle Walker left for Manchester City in 2017, the squad has been aware of the possibility of more money and more trophies if they left the club. Some might blame players for thinking of their careers but it is only natural.
But there is a broader issue than just players thinking about their next move. And that is a pervasive sense of tiredness, mental and physical, within the squad after five draining years. Most of these players — Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Rose, Ben Davies, Lamela, Eric Dier, Eriksen, Kane, Dele Alli, Heung Min Son — have been here since Pochettino’s first or second season. And there is a common feeling that they have very little left to give.
Part of this is physical, after years of hard-running football and double sessions. One long-serving player has complained about the “same old sessions and messages”. But it is also mental, after five years of authoritative controlling management and a relentless schedule, with players also complaining at how few days they are given off. “The place is a regime and they’re sick of him,” one dressing room source said. “It’s his way or nothing, there is no balance. The players don’t get the impression they are trusted at all.”
Pochettino has not lost the dressing room, and the players know what a debt they owe to him. But they just cannot keep playing like they used to. “The players are not revolting against him,” said a source, “but they have been driven so hard, they don’t know if they have got anything left to give.”
The chairman
Can you blame the man who has delivered everything he promised?
Remember that Daniel Levy’s ultimate responsibility is bigger even than trophies, results, and the fact that the team conceded seven goals to Bayern Munich on Tuesday night. His job is to safeguard the long-term stability of the club. And that means taking care of more important things than just the up-and-down results of the team.
The priority over the past decade has been the club’s infrastructure and Levy has secured it for a lifetime. In 2012 Spurs opened their new £50 million training ground, and six months ago, they opened their £1.2 billion new stadium. Each of those is rated the best in Europe. Last season, before the stadium opened, they made a record profit of £113 million. Whatever happens next with Pochettino, the players, even the ownership of the club, it will have a guaranteed level of stability and success because of these.
What makes this even more impressive is that Tottenham built this ground without benefactor investment. They had to borrow £637 million to pay for it but more than £500 million of that has been refinanced through Bank of America at low interest rates, securing the club’s stable financial future. The delays in opening the stadium — it was meant to open at the start of last season, not the end — are forgotten already.
“I understand, as I am a fan, clearly you want to win on the pitch,” Levy told the Financial Times last month. “But we have been trying to look at this slightly differently, in that we want to make sure we ensure an infrastructure here to stand the test of time.”
But has it come at the cost of the team?
Levy has always run a tight ship in terms of contracts and salaries, trying to regularly re-negotiate deals with incremental wage increases to preserve his negotiating power. And for years it worked well.
The problem came when the successes of the team outstripped the money they were offered. After a round of renegotiations in 2016, players were disappointed that finishing second in 2016-17 did not lead to another big round of pay-rises.
One source described Levy as “the Mike Ashley of the top of the league”, a chairman determined to get by spending as little as possible. When the squad learnt last year of Levy’s annual £6 million salary, it went down badly with players who have always felt underpaid.
Since then Levy has started to push the boat out on wages, with Kane, Alli and Lamela all signing big new long-term contracts last year, beyond the old restrictions. Kane’s, for example, increased from about £120,000 to a deal that starts at about £150,000 a week and could grow to £200,000. The flip side is that Levy has secured Tottenham’s control over their futures.
Spurs still spend only 38 per cent of their turnover on wages but the club have said they expect that ratio to increase towards 50 per cent. What Levy will not do is turn Spurs into Manchester United, throwing big long-term contracts at senior players just to keep them at the club.
Even on transfers the club has started to spend again after failing to sign anyone through 2018-19, with a £120 million net spend this summer that few would have expected, finally giving Pochettino new players to work with.
The problem is that Spurs had needed a major clear out of senior players, and a new generation of youngsters long before 2019. And that never happened.
You can argue that Levy should have done all this two years ago, to build on their 86-point season, and secure their best players long-term. But if you were expecting Levy to break his principles to gamble for success, you were looking in the wrong place.
The manager
Mauricio Pochettino knew that his sixth season would be difficult. He knew how hard it would be to keep motivating the same players he has had here for years, to keep getting the same level of physical and mental application they gave him when they were younger.
No one is more conscious of the threat of staleness than Pochettino himself. He has been desperate to end this old cycle here and start a new one. That is why he wanted to start moving on senior players years ago, and advocated a clear-out back in the summer of 2018.
Rose, Alderweireld, Wanyama and Sissoko all could have gone, just as Eriksen and Aurier could have gone this year. But only Kieran Trippier and Fernando Llorente ended up leaving.
Now Pochettino is left having to try to get more out of largely the same set of players he has been working with for years, some of whom he wanted sold, some of who are considering their next move. Pochettino also knows that during the course of his Spurs tenure, Liverpool and Manchester City have almost built new teams from scratch. And because they could never get rid of players, they struggled, at least until this summer, to get players in.
This means Pochettino is left with a squad that lacks the youthful vigour it had three or four years ago. It is not Pochettino’s fault that they do not have a peak-level Mousa Dembele, Kyle Walker, Rose or Wanyama any more, and they cannot easily replace them in the transfer market. The state of the squad is what Pochettino would call a “circumstance” outside his control.
So Spurs cannot play like they did when they would drive teams off the pitch with their energy. The style has changed in the past year or so, slightly deeper, slower and less about pressing. And that more adaptable style helped the team to get to the Champions League, a masterclass in flexible management, and an achievement Pochettino is not averse to mentioning.
This season Spurs still have to be pragmatic. That is why there is a focus on recovery between games, to keep the players functioning at a high level for as long as possible. They know these players cannot run now like they did in 2016.
The coaching staff try to keep changing their sessions and plans to keep the players on their toes, although some players are still finding it hard to stay mentally engaged.
Of course you can criticise specific selection or tactical decisions. Like the persistence with the 4-4-2 diamond system, which leaves Spurs exposed out wide. Even Moussa Sissoko admitted this week the team got tired quicker when they play that way.
You can ask whether Pochettino was right to start Christian Eriksen against Arsenal or Olympiakos, or bench him against Leicester or Bayern.
But the whole picture is far bigger than that, bigger than any individual decision or moment or game. And most of the problems Spurs are facing are outside of Pochettino’s control and beyond his capacity to fix.
Perhaps the strongest criticism of Pochettino concerns the mood. He has always been hot and cold, up and down, but increasingly so in recent months. After losing the Champions League final he was so upset that he went straight to his home in Barcelona, rather than flying back to London with the squad, raising eyebrows behind the scenes.
His comments about “different agendas” in the squad did not go down well with the players either, nor did the speculation in the past linking him with Manchester United or Real Madrid. Some players hoped that Pochettino’s latest contract, in May 2018, would guarantee spending on transfers and player contracts that never happened.
Trying to change the atmosphere might be the best thing Pochettino could do. This downturn is not personally his fault. It is what happens when a group of players overachieve for so long until their motivation fades, with reinforcements arriving too little, too late. But if results continue to get worse, then the pressure will all be on him.
(Photo: Bryn Lennon/Getty Images)
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,408
38,424
It would be ironic a little if this situation leads to Eriksen's agent pushing for a January move rather than holding out for a free transfer in the summer.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,408
38,424
October has been a nightmare for Tottenham Hotspur and we are only six days in. They conceded 10 goals in two games, tipping a shaky start to the season into something that looks like a crisis. Three wins from 11 all season tells a story, especially when those were home games against Aston Villa, Crystal Palace and Southampton.
Spurs look nothing like themselves right now and Mauricio Pochettino is under more pressure than he has been since his first few months at the club, back in the autumn of 2014. Is this the natural end of the cycle, or has something gone badly wrong? There is plenty of blame to be shared round, but how culpable are the chairman, the manager and the squad?
The players
When the Brighton players reflected on their 3-0 win over Tottenham, one thing stuck in their minds: the silence. They barely heard a word of encouragement or leadership out of the Spurs players, especially after their captain Hugo Lloris was stretchered off after eight minutes.
Mauricio Pochettino is rarely challenged by the dressing room, perhaps to the group’s detriment, but the most worrying thing about Spurs’ recent troubles is the lack of fight and hunger on the pitch.
For years this was a team who gave everything on the pitch, who would press hard, out-run opponents, and push until the final whistle. But not this season. Before this week, the story of this season had been about surrendering leads in the second half: against Olympiakos, Arsenal and Leicester, before the shock exit to Colchester. This week things got worse as Spurs folded in the second half against Bayern and then barely showed up at Brighton. Brighton’s players admitted privately to feeling like they had outworked as well as outplayed Tottenham.
Of course you can always look at individual errors and bad performances to explain events, and there have been plenty of both: Lloris’s mistakes against Southampton and Brighton, Jan Vertonghen looking flat-footed against Arsenal and Olympiakos, Toby Alderweireld exposed by Bayern and Brighton, Serge Aurier’s lack of concentration, Tanguy Ndombele being off the pace, Christian Eriksen losing all consistency. But when almost every individual is underperforming you have to look for a bigger explanation. And it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that there has been a clear collective dip this season.
This team was always sustained by the commitment levels of the players, eager to put the Pochettino plan into action right down to the last detail. But when that commitment slackens, the whole structure falls apart. Pochettino said recently that the main thing he wanted to fix in the team was that they should “recover this aggressivity” without the ball.
They have not won an away league game since January 20, the worst record in the division, and their performances since then both home and away have largely lacked the intensity and slickness that were hallmarks as recently as 18 months ago. They have picked up as many Premier League points in 2019 as West Ham and Burnley, and fewer than Crystal Palace and Leicester. Their tally of 22 points from 20 Premier League matches since mid-February is borderline relegation form.
Clearly some players do not want to be there any more. Eriksen had his heart set on a move to Real Madrid. Toby Alderweireld wanted out last year. Danny Rose has nearly left three summers in a row. Jan Vertonghen is in his final year. Ever since Kyle Walker left for Manchester City in 2017, the squad has been aware of the possibility of more money and more trophies if they left the club. Some might blame players for thinking of their careers but it is only natural.
But there is a broader issue than just players thinking about their next move. And that is a pervasive sense of tiredness, mental and physical, within the squad after five draining years. Most of these players — Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Rose, Ben Davies, Lamela, Eric Dier, Eriksen, Kane, Dele Alli, Heung Min Son — have been here since Pochettino’s first or second season. And there is a common feeling that they have very little left to give.
Part of this is physical, after years of hard-running football and double sessions. One long-serving player has complained about the “same old sessions and messages”. But it is also mental, after five years of authoritative controlling management and a relentless schedule, with players also complaining at how few days they are given off. “The place is a regime and they’re sick of him,” one dressing room source said. “It’s his way or nothing, there is no balance. The players don’t get the impression they are trusted at all.”
Pochettino has not lost the dressing room, and the players know what a debt they owe to him. But they just cannot keep playing like they used to. “The players are not revolting against him,” said a source, “but they have been driven so hard, they don’t know if they have got anything left to give.”
The chairman
Can you blame the man who has delivered everything he promised?
Remember that Daniel Levy’s ultimate responsibility is bigger even than trophies, results, and the fact that the team conceded seven goals to Bayern Munich on Tuesday night. His job is to safeguard the long-term stability of the club. And that means taking care of more important things than just the up-and-down results of the team.
The priority over the past decade has been the club’s infrastructure and Levy has secured it for a lifetime. In 2012 Spurs opened their new £50 million training ground, and six months ago, they opened their £1.2 billion new stadium. Each of those is rated the best in Europe. Last season, before the stadium opened, they made a record profit of £113 million. Whatever happens next with Pochettino, the players, even the ownership of the club, it will have a guaranteed level of stability and success because of these.
What makes this even more impressive is that Tottenham built this ground without benefactor investment. They had to borrow £637 million to pay for it but more than £500 million of that has been refinanced through Bank of America at low interest rates, securing the club’s stable financial future. The delays in opening the stadium — it was meant to open at the start of last season, not the end — are forgotten already.
“I understand, as I am a fan, clearly you want to win on the pitch,” Levy told the Financial Times last month. “But we have been trying to look at this slightly differently, in that we want to make sure we ensure an infrastructure here to stand the test of time.”
But has it come at the cost of the team?
Levy has always run a tight ship in terms of contracts and salaries, trying to regularly re-negotiate deals with incremental wage increases to preserve his negotiating power. And for years it worked well.
The problem came when the successes of the team outstripped the money they were offered. After a round of renegotiations in 2016, players were disappointed that finishing second in 2016-17 did not lead to another big round of pay-rises.
One source described Levy as “the Mike Ashley of the top of the league”, a chairman determined to get by spending as little as possible. When the squad learnt last year of Levy’s annual £6 million salary, it went down badly with players who have always felt underpaid.
Since then Levy has started to push the boat out on wages, with Kane, Alli and Lamela all signing big new long-term contracts last year, beyond the old restrictions. Kane’s, for example, increased from about £120,000 to a deal that starts at about £150,000 a week and could grow to £200,000. The flip side is that Levy has secured Tottenham’s control over their futures.
Spurs still spend only 38 per cent of their turnover on wages but the club have said they expect that ratio to increase towards 50 per cent. What Levy will not do is turn Spurs into Manchester United, throwing big long-term contracts at senior players just to keep them at the club.
Even on transfers the club has started to spend again after failing to sign anyone through 2018-19, with a £120 million net spend this summer that few would have expected, finally giving Pochettino new players to work with.
The problem is that Spurs had needed a major clear out of senior players, and a new generation of youngsters long before 2019. And that never happened.
You can argue that Levy should have done all this two years ago, to build on their 86-point season, and secure their best players long-term. But if you were expecting Levy to break his principles to gamble for success, you were looking in the wrong place.
The manager
Mauricio Pochettino knew that his sixth season would be difficult. He knew how hard it would be to keep motivating the same players he has had here for years, to keep getting the same level of physical and mental application they gave him when they were younger.
No one is more conscious of the threat of staleness than Pochettino himself. He has been desperate to end this old cycle here and start a new one. That is why he wanted to start moving on senior players years ago, and advocated a clear-out back in the summer of 2018.
Rose, Alderweireld, Wanyama and Sissoko all could have gone, just as Eriksen and Aurier could have gone this year. But only Kieran Trippier and Fernando Llorente ended up leaving.
Now Pochettino is left having to try to get more out of largely the same set of players he has been working with for years, some of whom he wanted sold, some of who are considering their next move. Pochettino also knows that during the course of his Spurs tenure, Liverpool and Manchester City have almost built new teams from scratch. And because they could never get rid of players, they struggled, at least until this summer, to get players in.
This means Pochettino is left with a squad that lacks the youthful vigour it had three or four years ago. It is not Pochettino’s fault that they do not have a peak-level Mousa Dembele, Kyle Walker, Rose or Wanyama any more, and they cannot easily replace them in the transfer market. The state of the squad is what Pochettino would call a “circumstance” outside his control.
So Spurs cannot play like they did when they would drive teams off the pitch with their energy. The style has changed in the past year or so, slightly deeper, slower and less about pressing. And that more adaptable style helped the team to get to the Champions League, a masterclass in flexible management, and an achievement Pochettino is not averse to mentioning.
This season Spurs still have to be pragmatic. That is why there is a focus on recovery between games, to keep the players functioning at a high level for as long as possible. They know these players cannot run now like they did in 2016.
The coaching staff try to keep changing their sessions and plans to keep the players on their toes, although some players are still finding it hard to stay mentally engaged.
Of course you can criticise specific selection or tactical decisions. Like the persistence with the 4-4-2 diamond system, which leaves Spurs exposed out wide. Even Moussa Sissoko admitted this week the team got tired quicker when they play that way.
You can ask whether Pochettino was right to start Christian Eriksen against Arsenal or Olympiakos, or bench him against Leicester or Bayern.
But the whole picture is far bigger than that, bigger than any individual decision or moment or game. And most of the problems Spurs are facing are outside of Pochettino’s control and beyond his capacity to fix.
Perhaps the strongest criticism of Pochettino concerns the mood. He has always been hot and cold, up and down, but increasingly so in recent months. After losing the Champions League final he was so upset that he went straight to his home in Barcelona, rather than flying back to London with the squad, raising eyebrows behind the scenes.
His comments about “different agendas” in the squad did not go down well with the players either, nor did the speculation in the past linking him with Manchester United or Real Madrid. Some players hoped that Pochettino’s latest contract, in May 2018, would guarantee spending on transfers and player contracts that never happened.
Trying to change the atmosphere might be the best thing Pochettino could do. This downturn is not personally his fault. It is what happens when a group of players overachieve for so long until their motivation fades, with reinforcements arriving too little, too late. But if results continue to get worse, then the pressure will all be on him.
(Photo: Bryn Lennon/Getty Images)
Thanks mate.
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
It’s still a good squad we have. Getting a new manager in would freshen things up a bit as he would inevitably bring in new coaches and training regimes.

Its a good squad if we didnt have contracts running out etc. Our spine is missing and/or stale. We had a great spine a couple of years back... now? not so much
 

TheHoddleWaddle

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2013
11,351
20,378
The thing is Poch can't do quick turnarounds, especially with new players because his "methods" require months of training. So, if we give him some more players in Jan then we don't see the benefits into midway through next season (my logic being that they're just getting up to speed as season ends and then go flat again over the summer and come back only to be flattened by Poch's pre-season and then start to show their real potential mid-season. Its a pattern that can be observed in player after player.) There aren't any quick fixes under Poch.

As great as he's been if p*ssing away 20+ points at the start of every season while we get up to speed is all part of the "philosophy" then I'd argue that there's something deeply flawed about your philosophy.
It is fairly obvious that his pre season leaves the players utterly fucked for the start of the season. He needs to tone it down. Our players lack energy, although a lot of that is mental.

I think he's here for another rebuild. Levy knows this side has had its day. Ndombele, locelso (if he stays) are part of next seasons plans imo.
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2018
19,153
30,013
Could very well be that's the case. But last summer when we "couldn't find anyone" to sign, Poch seemed to only have de Jong and de Ligt in mind (de Ligt before that summer maybe). That's hardly class scouting, they were the most well-known wonderkids in Europe not at a top club. He also pushed hard for Janssen, which is the only one I know of that he really wanted and that can't be attributed to Mitchell (Alderweireld and Son for example).

That's what happens if the DoF gets to take a scattergun approach. You need a clear plan and sign players suited for a specific system. That means that you need the right person in place, of course. But at Everton I have no faith in Marco Silva either.

I think the next couple of years will be interesting. If something does change then the next decision Levy makes will be telling. If its an Eddie Howe - then i dont think much will change. If Its a Mourinho it may mean that Levy wants trophies and will end up spending. We can go for a happy medium someone who will build for the future but also win stuff.
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
Tbh I really want him to sort it out, forget the stupid massive rebuild he reckons we need, fuck Eriksen off to the U23s until the Summer or January if it forces his hand into moving, bury the hatchet with Jan/Toby and use them ALONGSIDE Sanchez and Foyth to get the best out of all of them and start afresh with the squad he has.

The fact I want him to succeed is what annoys me most about him continually fucking the dog. I think he's too stubborn to go BACK to a past system as he wants to make the diamond work to vindicate himself, if we looked weak at the back but dangerous in attack it might not be so bad but we're leaky at the back and toothless in attack, there's no conviction in anything we do, which screams of the players having given up.

I'm rambling here, please turn it round Poch ???
He doesn't always play a diamond. He has shown loyalty to both Jan and Toby. The issue I have is that snail pace partnership at CB we've suffered a hell of a lot of defeats with that pairing they couldn't handle Aaron Connelly. Pochettinho has to change them....we all just want the best for our club it's been painful embarrassing trying to make sense of it all.
 

panoma

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2012
3,911
12,214
Peps Man City has lost away to Norwich and at home to Wolves is he losing the dressing room?

We shouldn't panic we all know what needs to be done. Poch needs a little time to get certain players OUT certain players fit and up to speed and certain arrivals to begin the new.

We have played badly for almost a year while City played bad in a few games. Big difference
 

Graysonti

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2011
3,904
5,823
Kemsley on Talksport indicating Levy will back him. Are they not close?

If this is the case, we need to get behind Poch regardless of personal preference.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
55,124
100,217
Kemsley on Talksport indicating Levy will back him. Are they not close?

If this is the case, we need to get behind Poch regardless of personal preference.

I think Poch has to start making the right calls now.

Eriksen has to come away from the squad, why he's continuing to select him is bewildering in the extreme and sends completely the wrong message.

Pick a side who's going to leave it all out there on the pitch, not ones coasting who want out of the Club.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
"When the squad learnt last year of Levy’s annual £6 million salary, it went down badly with players who have always felt underpaid."

Yeah I think everyone knew this was a bad idea..
 

Sid Tottenham

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2015
531
1,291
Hmm people want him out ok I get it it’s been a mess for nearly a year.
I’d like him to have a season to rebuild a new team personally he’s earned that in my opinion
This season isn’t over yet either although it doesn’t look good does it?
Let’s see if he’s magic or not
 

Joeyboey

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,806
5,260
Hmm people want him out ok I get it it’s been a mess for nearly a year.
I’d like him to have a season to rebuild a new team personally he’s earned that in my opinion
This season isn’t over yet either although it doesn’t look good does it?
Let’s see if he’s magic or not

Issue is we could be cut adrift soon if we’re not careful. This entire season would therefor be classified as rebuilding, we’d also have to give him the start of next season too!

Considering we’ve been awful for the last 9 months losing more premiership games than anyone else, what your suggestion is that actually giving Poch effectively 24 months (last 9 months, 12 month rebuild and 3 months to see if the rebuild works, possible ruining next seasons ambitions too).

I fully understand loyalty to Poch but we can’t be charitable either.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
55,124
100,217
Issue is we could be cut adrift soon if we’re not careful. This entire season would therefor be classified as rebuilding, we’d also have to give him the start of next season too!

Considering we’ve been awful for the last 9 months losing more premiership games than anyone else, what your suggestion is that actually giving Poch effectively 24 months (last 9 months, 12 month rebuild and 3 months to see if the rebuild works, possible ruining next seasons ambitions too).

I fully understand loyalty to Poch but we can’t be charitable either.

And its also worth noting, if we do start a Poch rebuild, who's to say he wouldnt be off to Madrid, or wherever, in the summer anyway.
 

Gareth88

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2017
4,595
6,730
Ali Gold made a good point, roughly: if we bring someone new they will have to get to know who our best players, what we need in the transfer window etc, where as we have Poch he knows what we need, knows who is leaving and who our best players so half the work is done already. Now I have flip flopped a lot this weekend like I am sure so many have but I want Poch to stay we need stability and a clear out of the old guard, I said it already today lets drop Eriksen as he doesn't look arsed anymore, Toby and Jan look ropey, lets give Sanchez and Tanganga a shot at a centre back partnership.
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
"When the squad learnt last year of Levy’s annual £6 million salary, it went down badly with players who have always felt underpaid."

Yeah I think everyone knew this was a bad idea..

It's a very limited group, and let's be honest - I'm willing to bet the ones involved aren't much value on their current pay, never mind whinging about what DL takes home. After all, let's not pretend DL does one job - he's collecting salaries as a shareholder, project manager, chairman, director of various property projects, and managing a variety of other things.

The only players I can think of that would fit into that category of "always felt underpaid" would be the ones whose contracts expire soon. If so, they need to think on about why.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
It's a very limited group, and let's be honest - I'm willing to bet the ones involved aren't much value on their current pay, never mind whinging about what DL takes home. After all, let's not pretend DL does one job - he's collecting salaries as a shareholder, project manager, chairman, director of various property projects, and managing a variety of other things.

The only players I can think of that would fit into that category of "always felt underpaid" would be the ones whose contracts expire soon. If so, they need to think on about why.

Still. He takes out most money of all chairmen doesn't he? That sticks in people's eyes.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
Guys ffs we don’t need a rebuild. We will sign a replacement for eriksen when the new manager comes in, we will sign replacements for Toby and Jan. Sess will be Rose’s replacement. Or we will sign someone else.

My point is, we have a quality squad. Third best in the league. Yet people are talking about a rebuild just because Poch has lost the players and overseen a terrible decline for over a year.

Watch a new manager come in and this team will fly again. Toby and Jan haven’t become terrible overnight. They are easily good enough to get us top 4 again this season and in the summer we can replace properly.

We’ve gone from everyone thinking we looked really good in the summer and ready to challenge, to everyone saying our squad is crap and we need a rebuild. You’re just ignoring the problem, it’s Poch. You are willing to give the one responsible for us being in this mess more time, where is the sense in that? Completely misguided loyalty. Poch isn’t rebuilding anything at Spurs. We aren’t changing a whole new squad just for his sake. It’s bonkers.

When we get a new manager in this squad will be flying again.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
Guys ffs we don’t need a rebuild. We will sign a replacement for eriksen when the new manager comes in, we will sign replacements for Toby and Jan. Sess will be Rose’s replacement. Or we will sign someone else.

My point is, we have a quality squad. Third best in the league. Yet people are talking about a rebuild just because Poch has lost the players and overseen a terrible decline for over a year.

Watch a new manager come in and this team will fly again. Toby and Jan haven’t become terrible overnight. They are easily good enough to get us top 4 again this season and in the summer we can replace properly.

We’ve gone from everyone thinking we looked really good in the summer and ready to challenge, to everyone saying our squad is crap and we need a rebuild. You’re just ignoring the problem, it’s Poch. You are willing to give the one responsible for us being in this mess more time, where is the sense in that? Completely misguided loyalty. Poch isn’t rebuilding anything at Spurs. We aren’t changing a whole new squad just for his sake. It’s bonkers.

When we get a new manager in this squad will be flying again.

Word.
 

Sid Tottenham

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2015
531
1,291
Issue is we could be cut adrift soon if we’re not careful. This entire season would therefor be classified as rebuilding, we’d also have to give him the start of next season too!

Considering we’ve been awful for the last 9 months losing more premiership games than anyone else, what your suggestion is that actually giving Poch effectively 24 months (last 9 months, 12 month rebuild and 3 months to see if the rebuild works, possible ruining next seasons ambitions too).

I fully understand loyalty to Poch but we can’t be charitable either.
Ok but I’ve been supporting since late seventies as a small boy, yeah I’m old
I’ve never had a manager/team consistently get us top 4 champions league final a well like he has
Yeah I’ve seen trophies great players but as a team what he done is probably as good as I’ve seen he took over a bad dressing room and sorted that out this one is different I’d agree and a lot tougher to sort out for him
But I want him to sort it out I like him as a person and as a manager and I think he deserves some time, the rest of this season and next, we ain’t owed top 4 by rights we shouldn’t be up there either over the Poch years anyway
 
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