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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Jul 22, 2008
43,881
95,147
Absolute rubbish. I'm sorry, but that's the only way to put it. There's not a single person who doesn't have valid, rational reasons for believing as they do. The ones you accuse of having their 'head in the sand' believe that the best way forward is not to change, and there's nothing wrong with having that belief. That doesn't necessarily make them right, but it also doesn't make them wrong either. And it certainly doesn't make them blind.

There have been plenty who have accused those such as yourself that you're just knee-jerking and can't see the wood for the trees. I'm sure you'd disagree with that assessment. And why shouldn't you? It's just as invalid a presupposition as yours.

The most important thing is that we're not two camps - this isn't a fucking war. We're one camp of very concerned supporters who are watching their club go through a difficult period. In times like that, we should be more united, not less. Divisiveness just makes an already difficult situation toxic.

Yep, and I’m sure many people would change their mind if, say, we lost or won all of our next five games.

It’s not our decision anyway, so let’s just discuss the pros and cons of sticking or twisting.
 

thfcsteff

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2005
1,117
339
One camp that see the need for a change, another that want to keep their head in the sand

Really? Is that what it is? Thank you so much for explaining to me why I want him to stay, be backed, turf the wasters out and get the chance to build mkII...
 

fecka

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2013
2,305
6,355
A friend of mine who's also a Spurs fan and works as a physio has suggested that Poch's famous fitness regimen could have lead to overtraining among a few of the players.
So many of them seem to have lost strength and fitness and we had ITK from Trix I believe that 'the training methods are always the same'. We've also had a massive increase in soft tissue injuries in the last two seasons.
After watching a few games with this in mind I think it's possible that he's onto something.

For those who don't know what overtraining is, here's a snippet from Wikipedia of what it means.

"Overtraining occurs when a person exceeds their body's ability to recover from strenuous exercise.
[1] Overtraining can be described as a point where a person may have a decrease in performance and plateauing as a result of failure to consistently perform at a certain level or training load; a load which exceeds their recovery capacity.
[2] People who are overtrained cease making progress, and can even begin to lose strength and fitness. Overtraining is also known as chronic fatigue, burnout and overstress in athletes.
[3][4] It is suggested that there are different variations of overtraining, firstly monotonous program over training suggest that repetition of the same movement such as certain weight lifting and baseball batting can cause performance plateau due to an adaption of the central nervous system which results from a lack of stimulation."
 

maltahotspur

Always look on the bright side of life
Oct 29, 2007
2,572
2,365
No it isn't. The club shouldn't be spending money it doesn't have on signings. Until very recently every other top 6 team had far more money available to spend simply because they had so much more coming in.

Based on that, it is useless firing Poch to bring in a new Manager if we don't have the cash to replace the squad. Status Quo!
 

dricha1

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2005
1,311
2,579
A friend of mine who's also a Spurs fan and works as a physio has suggested that Poch's famous fitness regimen could have lead to overtraining among a few of the players.
So many of them seem to have lost strength and fitness and we had ITK from Trix I believe that 'the training methods are always the same'. We've also had a massive increase in soft tissue injuries in the last two seasons.
After watching a few games with this in mind I think it's possible that he's onto something.

For those who don't know what overtraining is, here's a snippet from Wikipedia of what it means.

"Overtraining occurs when a person exceeds their body's ability to recover from strenuous exercise.
[1] Overtraining can be described as a point where a person may have a decrease in performance and plateauing as a result of failure to consistently perform at a certain level or training load; a load which exceeds their recovery capacity.
[2] People who are overtrained cease making progress, and can even begin to lose strength and fitness. Overtraining is also known as chronic fatigue, burnout and overstress in athletes.
[3][4] It is suggested that there are different variations of overtraining, firstly monotonous program over training suggest that repetition of the same movement such as certain weight lifting and baseball batting can cause performance plateau due to an adaption of the central nervous system which results from a lack of stimulation."

Whilst I’m not knocking the above post, clubs spend millions on the health and medical departments I’d be surprised if they weren’t overly cautious on overtraining- players are financial assets after all. A lot of our injuries are impact injuries anyway?

Now if the report was to go on about mental fatigue or the psychology of boredom then I’d think they’d have a point.
 

fecka

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2013
2,305
6,355
Whilst I’m not knocking the above post, clubs spend millions on the health and medical departments I’d be surprised if they weren’t overly cautious on overtraining- players are financial assets after all. A lot of our injuries are impact injuries anyway?

Now if the report was to go on about mental fatigue or the psychology of boredom then I’d think they’d have a point.

That is kind of my point. Poch has proven to be incredibly stubborn and he could simply be ignoring any warnings. Despite millions of funding into medical personnel all over the world about 10% of all elite endurance athletes are presumed to be suffering from overtraining.
I don't have any statistics about our injuries but we seem to suffer a lot of injuries in training sessions and far from all of them seem to be impact injuries.

Here are some of the symptoms of overtraining:
-Persistent muscle soreness
-Persistent fatigue, different from just being tired from a hard training session, occurs when fatigue continues even after adequate rest.
-Elevated resting heart rate, a persistently high heart rate after adequate rest such as in the morning after sleep, can be an indicator of overtraining.
-Reduced heart rate variability
-Increased susceptibility to infections
-Increased incidence of injuries
-Irritability
-Depression
-Mental breakdown
-Burnout
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,770
99,331
I think there could be something in the overtraining, I've experienced it when starting at the gym years ago, leads to lethargy and sluggishness, and more prone to injury. Affects your CNS.

Even with so many experts, there could still be some truth in it. We start every game with such a slow, flat tempo and that's a real sign to me as you wouldnt let that continue week in week out ffs.

I'm confused as to what I want to happen, but what I do know is I'm not enjoying our football anymore, it's been boring to watch for months.
 

McFlash

In the corner, eating crayons.
Oct 19, 2005
12,740
45,363
Absolute rubbish. I'm sorry, but that's the only way to put it. There's not a single person who doesn't have valid, rational reasons for believing as they do. The ones you accuse of having their 'head in the sand' believe that the best way forward is not to change, and there's nothing wrong with having that belief. That doesn't necessarily make them right, but it also doesn't make them wrong either. And it certainly doesn't make them blind.

There have been plenty who have accused those such as yourself that you're just knee-jerking and can't see the wood for the trees. I'm sure you'd disagree with that assessment. And why shouldn't you? It's just as invalid a presupposition as yours.

The most important thing is that we're not two camps - this isn't a fucking war. We're one camp of very concerned supporters who are watching their club go through a difficult period. In times like that, we should be more united, not less. Divisiveness just makes an already difficult situation toxic.

I offer @yankspurs :sneaky::whistle:;)
 

Dov67

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2005
3,318
10,212
I understand that when you are building a £1 billion stadium and renting for 18 months it will hit the transfer budget in a big way - anyone who bought the idea that it wouldn't was being naive.

BUT.....this is why you have to refresh your squad, piecemeal, bit by bit, each year, because if you don't you end up where we are now, with FB's who are not anywhere near good enough and a once imperious central defensive partnership who have grown old together and will cost circa £100m to replace, and then you have the eriksen situation......make no mistake, a once £80m player will leave for nothing in June 2020.

predictable and predicted.

Poch has been the best thing to have happened to our club in a very very long time, but he is not blameless himself. He constantly invites speculation about his future which must be destabilising in the dressing room. When Mourinho got sacked we had 3 months of bullshit which he could have quashed in 2 minuets - he chose not to.

After the Ajax game, we were approaching the biggest game in our history, we got there in a manner that could not have been more dramatic, and at that moment he again decided to invite speculation about his own future.

I love him t bits, but sometime i find myself thinking "either STFU or just leave"
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Time for a fresh approach, play those who want to be here, marginalise those who don’t, and inject some energy and vibrancy into the side. Will never happen, but aiming for something like this as the season evolves, could at least bring some zip and fun into our team again:

Lloris
Foyth Sanchez Davies
Walker-Peters ___________________ Sessegnon
Ndombele Lo Celso
Lucas ____________________ Dele
Kane
____________________________________________

Parrott
Son ___________________ Lamela
Winks Sissoko
Rose _________________________ Aurier
Vertonghen Dier Alderweireld
Gazzaniga​
 

Zummerzet Spur

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
275
585
I think the MOTD graphic/comment re players going stale is probably right.

The more I think about it, the more I think Poch has got to be given time and faith to rebuild the team rather than shipping him out.

COYS
 

Cambridge Spur

Well-Known Member
May 13, 2015
346
1,133
I can’t believe what I’m reading sometimes. So our squad hasn’t changed enough now???!! Fuck me, it used to be we don’t have a settled squad, too many new players blah blah blah. Stop fucking listening to the shit spouted in the media and stop rewriting history. Poch has constantly stated how our squad is so good that it was difficult to improve on. We are not Man City, we haven’t got a bottomless pit to just throw out everyone and start again. Fergie never ripped it all up and started again, he managed his squad and made changes gradually. This is all on Poch with his ridiculous comments and bizarre lineups. Left Rose out of tour, first choice come start of season. Vertonghen plays every game in preseason, dropped from squad entirely. Sells Trippier but doesn’t rate any other right back at the club, playing people constantly out of position. If our players are half as confused as we are by his actions then I’m not surprised by our shit form. For the record I loved Poch but he has to go now. The squad is still very good. Get Mourinho in, a winner who would love to work with our players.
 

fecka

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2013
2,305
6,355
I think the MOTD graphic/comment re players going stale is probably right.

The more I think about it, the more I think Poch has got to be given time and faith to rebuild the team rather than shipping him out.

COYS

Isn't he a large part of the reason it's grown stale in the first place?
Why do you think the has what it takes to turn it around?
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,381
17,040
Good point would love the contract rebels and players who dont give all dropped from squad. But i suppose the difficultly is that it includes 3 of our best players. It might show hes the boss again.

Read back this forum from after the first 3 games where Jan was dropped. People were losing theirs heads that he would even dare drop Vertonghen. Imagine if he dropped all 6 rebels.
 

Yiddo100

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2019
9,894
52,009
If he’s going to stay then play the players who want to be here, if we lose 2-0 most games playing a lot of the kids then be it, at least they show some fight
 

ardiles

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
13,228
40,308
The problem is time, if we were at a stage where it was close to end of season and we could hang in there and let him rebuild it'd be much easier to cling onto Poch. However given we're only 8 games in and the feeling that it might get worse every week makes even the most ardent of us who hope he can be part of the solution conflicted.

The only thing I'm hanging onto now is Lo Celso coming back and making a huge difference and Poch being able to fuck off some of the outcasts, that admittedly is clutching at straws.

He’s currently on loan to us. If we don’t qualify for next season’s CL, would he still be with us beyond next summer?
 

Zummerzet Spur

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
275
585
Isn't he a large part of the reason it's grown stale in the first place?
Why do you think the has what it takes to turn it around?
Because he’s been our best manager since probably Burkinshaw and he has been pushing to renew the squad in certain areas for sometime having seen this coming.

Swapping him out now is still going to leave players that no longer want to be at the club.

Four or five senior established players through the spine of the team who don’t want to be at the club is the reason I believe it’s gone to sh*t.

A few months ago the fanbase were shitting it he was off to Madrid or United - we need to show faith rather than be the fickle lot we often are.
 

Zummerzet Spur

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
275
585
If he’s going to stay then play the players who want to be here, if we lose 2-0 most games playing a lot of the kids then be it, at least they show some fight
Agreed I just hope the club can be brave enough to marginalise the poisoned apples to enable this to happen.
 

RichieS

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2004
11,916
16,436
Based on that, it is useless firing Poch to bring in a new Manager if we don't have the cash to replace the squad. Status Quo!
Hold on, you referred to the £85m net transfer spend over the course of Poch's time with us yourself so are surely aware that the entirety of that occurred in the most recent transfer window. As of last summer we have more money available to spend on transfers and, so far, have spent it. I don't know what else we can reasonably expect.
 
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