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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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WiganSpur

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Aug 31, 2012
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I just think a new coach could solve a few problems, get some players on side and give us a nudge in the right direction. Our squad is insanely talented and is packed full of leaders and experience. But it has to be somebody proven and world class or we might as well stick with Poch and let him get on with this painful rebuild which imo seems like a little bit of an excuse.
 

cjbyid

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2009
7,165
24,991
So yesterday I went back and looked through most of our Premier League fixtures from last season.

He used it first against Utd at OT, with Dier DM. Now we won the match 3-0, we were unusually clinical and that probably made Poch think this is the system to use but I remember that game and we were not 3 goals better.

He then reverted back to our usual shape but went back to the diamond against Liverpool at home in mid September, which we lost 2-1. He reverted to 4-2-3-1 for the following game away to Brighton, which we won.

He brought back the diamond at home to Chelsea in late November. To me this is the only game where it really worked and biggest reason was we caught Chelsea off guard and swarmed Jorginho. We won 3-1 but should have won by more. Interesting to note that Dier was DM in this diamond so we had a bit more security about us, our diamond was Dier, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli behind Kane and Son.

He then kept the diamond for following match, away to Scum. We lost 4-2 and to be blunt we got battered and didn't deserve anything despite leading at one point.

Didn't use the diamond again until away to Everton with no DM. We win 6-2. We were extremely clinical going forward but those who remember this game will know we went behind early and always looked vulnerable defensively. Luckily for us Everton were worse.

The first time he used the diamond against 'lesser' opponents was Wolves at home. He decided to use the diamond again with no DM. We lose 3-2 and get battered second half.

Also played the diamond at home to Man Utd and at half time we are losing 1-0, having played very poorly. We switch to 4-2-3-1 and proceed to dominate the second half but we can't find a goal and De Gea is unbelievable.

We used the diamond at home to Leicester, where we somehow beat them 3-1 despite them being superior to us.

A couple of games later we use the diamond again, this time away to Saints. We lose 2-1.

Away to Pool we use 3 atb and change it up at halftime to the diamond but we still lose 2-1.

The next time we use the diamond is at home to West Ham and we lose 1-0.

We used the diamond at home to Villa this season. We were losing until we changed to 4-2-3-1 at half time which brought about our comeback.


There is a clear correlation when looking at our bad form over the past 10/11 months and its ever since we stopped consistently playing our balanced 4-2-3-1 and started playing this diamond (or 3 atb which no longer works for us either).

As far as I could see, the only clean sheet we have kept with the diamond was the very first time we used it, away at OT.

Great post.

Serious wake up call needed from Poch.
 

glacierSpurs

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2013
16,163
25,472
I just think a new coach could solve a few problems, get some players on side and give us a nudge in the right direction. Our squad is insanely talented and is packed full of leaders and experience. But it has to be somebody proven and world class or we might as well stick with Poch and let him get on with this painful rebuild which imo seems like a little bit of an excuse.
Agree. I would love to give Poch the benefit of doubt. But this so called 'rebuild' may just seem like a convenient excuse to mask any inefficiency of the team and results right now.

Surely Poch is too smart a guy to know that a 'rebuild' at this junction of a chaotic players' contract situation is not the most ideal.
 

wpmcg

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
432
612
I just think a new coach could solve a few problems, get some players on side and give us a nudge in the right direction. Our squad is insanely talented and is packed full of leaders and experience. But it has to be somebody proven and world class or we might as well stick with Poch and let him get on with this painful rebuild which imo seems like a little bit of an excuse.
I don't want rid of Poch but I agree the rebuild is an excuse. We have to rebuild whilst winning games and hopefully trophies and at least top 4.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
My point being you can't take anything from that game because we were playing a team that wasn't bothered about winning.

You can take the fact that we were playing Man City in a quarter final Champions League match, how about that...

And if they weren't bothered about winning (which is utter nonsense anyway) they wouldn't have put out team capable of winning the match - that's generally how it works.

The point is not about the opposition and how they setup, the point is about us and how comfortable we looked in and out of possession and using the same tactical blueprint we did against arguably the best team in Europe.
 

cjbyid

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2009
7,165
24,991
I just think a new coach could solve a few problems, get some players on side and give us a nudge in the right direction. Our squad is insanely talented and is packed full of leaders and experience. But it has to be somebody proven and world class or we might as well stick with Poch and let him get on with this painful rebuild which imo seems like a little bit of an excuse.

Defiantly is an excuse. Fair enough changes are needed we can all agree on that but we should still be able to get results with the squad we have. Certainly shouldn't be conceding 7 goals at home.
 

daveduvet

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2008
5,610
15,214
Surely someone on this site has some connection with Poch or his family. If so, it is your duty to have a quiet word with him; failing that send him a message to his pigeon hole at hotspur way - please ??
 

wpmcg

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
432
612
You can take the fact that we were playing Man City in a quarter final Champions League match, how about that...

And if they weren't bothered about winning (which is utter nonsense anyway) they wouldn't have put out team capable of winning the match - that's generally how it works.

The point is not about the opposition and how they setup, the point is about us and how comfortable we looked in and out of possession and using the same tactical blueprint we did against arguably the best team in Europe.
We may not have looked so comfortable if they had scored the penalty, and they weren't the best team in Europe that night. It was a strange game, a one off, and they were ok with a draw or an away goal defeat. That's not nonsense, Guardiola admitted he got that game wrong. Because it was a one-off game I don't think you should base your whole argument around it.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
We may not have looked so comfortable if they had scored the penalty, and they weren't the best team in Europe that night. It was a strange game, a one off, and they were ok with a draw or an away goal defeat. That's not nonsense, Guardiola admitted he got that game wrong. Because it was a one-off game I don't think you should base your whole argument around it.

If's buts blah blah blah, now you're just arguing the toss.

And I don't know what that's meant to mean...come on stop talking nonsense please.

Again missing the point...it's about the formation and setup and how we look comfortable, I'm using that example because we played it against a very good team in a high profile match. We've used that formation and setup on numerous occasions in fact we've played 4-2-3-1 in the majority of matches Poch has been in charge, so the argument isn't just based of one match.
 

skiba

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2006
300
1,284
Oh come on - we were 3 down on agg at halftime and Poch threw the dice, he had to, but that was more in hope than being astute - we were lucky and so was Poch.

If you actually took a moment to go back over the past 5 years and realise, you would see just how far we have fallen and it has been Poch's inability to be flexible with-in systems and styles of football that has done it. I will agree that I think the board could have done more, but with spiralling stadium costs and other projects, it is clear they have had a balancing act. Poch has just sulked his way through the past year or so.

Poch hasn't done any more with this club than I expected, barring a lucky CL final. If I am totally honest, and this might be painful for all the Poch lovers out there, there are more than enough managers that could have come in and done a better job with the squad we have. Take that for what it is.

I think you and many other posters are downplaying the role Poch has played in building this squad over the years and are ignoring the fact that one of his biggest strengths as a manager is his ability to coach and improve players. Would Kane have become the player he is today if say Jose had become manager at the time? Dembele became an absolute beast under Poch. Rose was the best left back in the league. Most of SC were underwhelmed with signing Toby and Vic and yet both went on to become probably the best in the league in their respective positions. Sissoko? I’m sure I could reel off further example of players improving under Poch.

Things clearly aren't going well at the moment and Poch deserves his fair share of criticism for the current performance levels and results. In fact one of the biggest worries is that we aren't really seeing players developing like they were and actually many seem to be declining if anything.

Expectations are higher than ever at the club and Poch has played a bigger role than anyone in shifting them. I can't help but feel that you and others are now using these to rewrite history and downplay the obvious good work Poch has done as manager. He must have done something right to have assembled what many believe to be the third best squad in the league with such a limited budget. You may think many managers could have done better, I think very few would have got us playing to the levels Poch had under the same circumstances.
 

mattyspurs

It is what it is
Jan 31, 2005
15,280
9,893
So yesterday I went back and looked through most of our Premier League fixtures from last season.

He used it first against Utd at OT, with Dier DM. Now we won the match 3-0, we were unusually clinical and that probably made Poch think this is the system to use but I remember that game and we were not 3 goals better.

He then reverted back to our usual shape but went back to the diamond against Liverpool at home in mid September, which we lost 2-1. He reverted to 4-2-3-1 for the following game away to Brighton, which we won.

He brought back the diamond at home to Chelsea in late November. To me this is the only game where it really worked and biggest reason was we caught Chelsea off guard and swarmed Jorginho. We won 3-1 but should have won by more. Interesting to note that Dier was DM in this diamond so we had a bit more security about us, our diamond was Dier, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli behind Kane and Son.

He then kept the diamond for following match, away to Scum. We lost 4-2 and to be blunt we got battered and didn't deserve anything despite leading at one point.

Didn't use the diamond again until away to Everton with no DM. We win 6-2. We were extremely clinical going forward but those who remember this game will know we went behind early and always looked vulnerable defensively. Luckily for us Everton were worse.

The first time he used the diamond against 'lesser' opponents was Wolves at home. He decided to use the diamond again with no DM. We lose 3-2 and get battered second half.

Also played the diamond at home to Man Utd and at half time we are losing 1-0, having played very poorly. We switch to 4-2-3-1 and proceed to dominate the second half but we can't find a goal and De Gea is unbelievable.

We used the diamond at home to Leicester, where we somehow beat them 3-1 despite them being superior to us.

A couple of games later we use the diamond again, this time away to Saints. We lose 2-1.

Away to Pool we use 3 atb and change it up at halftime to the diamond but we still lose 2-1.

The next time we use the diamond is at home to West Ham and we lose 1-0.

We used the diamond at home to Villa this season. We were losing until we changed to 4-2-3-1 at half time which brought about our comeback.


There is a clear correlation when looking at our bad form over the past 10/11 months and its ever since we stopped consistently playing our balanced 4-2-3-1 and started playing this diamond (or 3 atb which no longer works for us either).

As far as I could see, the only clean sheet we have kept with the diamond was the very first time we used it, away at OT.
Great post, thanks for that...but you seriously need to get laid :LOL:
 

wpmcg

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2018
432
612
If's buts blah blah blah, now you're just arguing the toss.

And I don't know what that's meant to mean...come on stop talking nonsense please.

Again missing the point...it's about the formation and setup and how we look comfortable, I'm using that example because we played it against a very good team in a high profile match. We've used that formation and setup on numerous occasions in fact we've played 4-2-3-1 in the majority of matches Poch has been in charge, so the argument isn't just based of one match.
Can't be bothered, raising reasonable points is just nonsense to you.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,187
The system works fine if you quickly go 3 goals up before you run out of gas in the last hour.
We could have scored 4 or 5 in that 30 minutes if we we were lethal. Too bad we still cant finish. We’ve had trouble with our finishing for years now and we’ve needed about a month dedicated to it in training for years but i dont think we’ve even spent a day on it.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
18,717
53,767
The diamond just does not work without a DM who can actually do the job. I like Winks, think he has a bright future but it's not his position and he struggled on Tuesday. Our defense has looked shaky all year no matter who has been played or what partnership is used. Which is unusual considering Jan and Toby should be one of the best CB partnerships around, shouldn't it? Lloris has gone downhill as of late, always gets caught by shots across him I swear. The only positive I can sense is going forward we did look dangerous against Bayern. It's our defending that worries me, and IMO the diamond formation without Dier doesn't have that protection for the back line at all.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Can't be bothered, raising reasonable points is just nonsense to you.

Ahh the classic 'I'm gonna pretend not to be bothered because I have no idea what I'm talking about' line :LOL:

I made the point not you, it's on you to understand it, not use your own interpretation and contest it. (y)
 

shoggy33

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2007
1,354
4,538
The tactic requires a high level of fitness so maybe he should focus on his fitness levels instead of whining about it. That's why they get paid a fortune.

Is this the same Sissoko who single handedly ran our midfield whilst also covering RB last year? Yeh he really needs to work on his fitness.
 
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Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
The thing is if Poch cedes to player power and changes his tactics, he’s lost authority. The tail starts wagging the dog. It would be a weird situation.

I still don't see how Poch recovers from this. Our form has been dire since Jan, I refuse to believe Levy isn't concerned. I guess Levy will be thinking that he is aware we've been on a dire run since January, but it's a new season and will be hoping Poch turns it around but I would say if we continue like we are, Levy will and must act.
 
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