Player Watch - Tanguy Ndombele

Karol said:

I thought Hojbjerg was a DM

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JR1994 said:

If he’s not willing to work for us can’t see how he’s going to enjoy playing under conte

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George94 said:

This is worth another watch - an exceptionally talented player, but one who just can't be bothered.

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sausage said:

Well yes.



...excluding:
- Stambouli (Bought for £5.3m, sold the next season for £7.7m)
- Wimmer (Bought for £5m, sold for £17m)
- Chadli (Bought for £7m, sold for £14m)
- Yedlin (Bought for £2.3m, sold for £5.3m)
- Holtby (Bought for £1.5m, sold for £5.8m plus £2.25m loan fee)


Only Fryers and Siggy were negligible enough to count as inflation.

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EPL transfer spending by season 2023 | Statista

From 2003/04 to 2022/23, transfer spending by English Premier League clubs increased substantially.

www.statista.com

Japhet said:

One of the things that struck me in that video was Carragher highlighting how Ndombele was 'hiding'. He wasn't getting away from opposition players like most would in order to receive the ball. Ndombele then receives the ball, pretty much surrounded by opposition players, and beats the lot of them in a space the size of a phone box. That is a devastating skill to have, and one which takes multiple opponents out of the game in a split second.

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joey55 said:

Sorry, didn't see this before.

You are right I forgot about Wimmer. I should have also excluded free transfers or close like Holtby.

But the others are just inflationary. Yedlin was U21.

You'd look at Chadli and think there is no way that can be inflation, but even that one was. We bought him for 7 in 2013 and sold him for 13 (not 14) in 2016.

2013 total Prem spending on transfers was 922 mill.
2016 total Prem spending on transfers was 1,774 billion

EPL transfer spending by season 2023 | Statista

From 2003/04 to 2022/23, transfer spending by English Premier League clubs increased substantially.

www.statista.com

So the increase in spending between Chadli being bought and sold was 852 mill. That's an increase of 92%.
So 7 mill increasing by 92% is 6.5.
So the equivalent amount just 3 seasons later was 13.5 million.
In real terms, we didn't even make anything on Chadli. You could say we lost a bit, but a few hundred k either way means nothing, given the cost of agent fees etc. That's just how incredible transfer market inflation is in football.

It's largely because of increased TV deals. From 2010-13 it was 1.7 billion. From 2013 -2016 it was 3 billion. Then in 2016 it increased to 5 billion. But also, in the last 5 years alone, commercial sponsorship has increased by 50%.

So this idea, many fans have of Levy investing in players to make a profit, just isn't true. The inflation we see in the football transfer market is so dramatic, that it means making money in real terms, without selling players you really want to keep, is very difficult.

The S&P 500 rose about 250% from 2010 to 2019, which is seen as incredibly high. The football transfer market rose over 400% in that time.

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sausage said:

I'm sorry but I can't take that seriously - you're using total league spending to imply inflation? Right, ok. That's one hell of a stretch

I can see you've taken some time to draft the reasoning out, but it's absolutely absurd.

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freeeki said:

Morning, anyone know where the Messi thread is please?

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joey55 said:

I think with all these things, you've really got to consider if you are being influenced by conformation bias and if any group would benefit from it and thus have an agenda to put the idea in your head to start with.

So often I've seen agents blamed when players want to move. Fans don't want to accept a player wants to leave their club, so they say things like "he needs to get rid of his agent, as he's pushing for a move." The whole entourage thing is a similar phenomenon. Fans don't want to think it's the player causing trouble, so again look to blame outside influence. It's common for foreign players to have several advisors (agents, family, close friends etc), so calling them an entourage makes sense, especially as fans want to speak of them in a derogatory manner, which they naturally do when the players actions aren't what they'd want them to be. It's also more likely that foreign players would have problems adapting. So when you think about it, it makes sense that there would be more want away stories with foreign signings and thus more opportunity for fans to blame those around them. But sadly we currently live in a society where we a deliberately discouraged from thinking about these things and encouraged to make a certain type of conclusion.

If anything, fans look to scapegoat agents and now entourages, because they want to see the player himself in a more positive light. They want to see the player as the victim of poor influence of others. It's not because they are bigoted etc, but because they have emotionally invested in the player himself and don't want to think he's rejecting them. It's not bigoted or arrogant, it's just a simple case of wanting to find someone or others, to blame, rather than the player they have or had so much hope in. It's totally innocent, yet there is a really sinister desire by certain groups in society, to actively encourage people to see things in far more unpleasant terms. I think that's what's happened here with you. There is nothing to this, but I understand why you've made those assumptions as we are definitely encouraged to do so.

As for the lazy thing, again, only when applying confirmation bias could this be seen as a race issue. Fans and the players themselves are encouraged to see it in those terms, but it's one of the easier claims to dismiss. You only have to browse through this thread to read of many white players that were labelled lazy. I'd say the likes of Ndidi and Kante are seen as the hardest working players in the Prem, but groups with certain agendas would never mention that. They'd just find examples of when black players have been called "lazy" and claim it's a common trope and few, if any, in the media would have the courage to argue against it for fear of being "cancelled." Fans start to accept it and then look out for it. This issue with NDombele, being a perfect example.

NDombele got called lazy for being lazy. The video posted of Jamie Carragher analyzing his game highlights why he's seen as lazy. He simply wasn't showing for the ball. He couldn't be bothered to give the CB's an option. He could be a purple skinned, Yorkshireman and he'd still be described as "lazy."

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Cinemattis said:

Hey you! Why do you write coherently, soberly and intleg...inntelleg...entelligen...smartly(!) about serious issues! That has absolutely no friggin´ place in here - you´re way out of order mate! You´re worse than a racist; you´re a smartist!!

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thfc1989 said:

Getting Ndombele out of the club should be a top priority. We need the budget to strengthen the squad elsewhere and would be good to get rid of someone who is clearly too disinterested or fragile to turn it around.

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Japhet said:

One of the things that struck me in that video was Carragher highlighting how Ndombele was 'hiding'. He wasn't getting away from opposition players like most would in order to receive the ball. Ndombele then receives the ball, pretty much surrounded by opposition players, and beats the lot of them in a space the size of a phone box. That is a devastating skill to have, and one which takes multiple opponents out of the game in a split second.

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RichieS said:

He is, but he's an "active" DM like Wanyama rather than a "disciplined" one like Dier - he goes looking for the ball rather than staying put covering space. It may be that @rio bryan wants us to have a sitting DM as well.

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George94 said:

There's absolutely no doubt, if he can be bothered and actually works a bit harder, he's a potential world class footballer - I'm talking top 5 central midfielders in the world.

I don't think anyone doubts his ability on the ball, he never loses it and always creates something, but off the ball he costs the team big time and we just can't have that.

There's still a part of me that hopes, if we fail to sell him this summer, he'll decide to knuckle down and it'll all work out...but I'm still very doubtful.

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SpartanSpur said:

This is the crux of it. There has been nothing to suggest he is even remotely interested in doing this. Maybe if he doesn't get the easy way out (a transfer) he could knuckle down with Euro 2021 as motivation, but he could easily just coast to January and hope for a move then instead, hoping we are even more willing to sell at that point.

I'd find it a lot easier to defend him if he was back grafting in training already like Dele is for example, or even coming out with quotes like Foyth did about wanting to fight for his place.

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