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Race for The Top 10

KikoSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
379
936
Our squad is still better than Arsenal's and we have far better depth than Wolves. (I think Leicester's squad is better than both, mind).

Problem is we're currently less than the sum of our parts. We should be in the fight for 5th/6th at the very least but we're underperforming.

Some of the overreaction in this thread is ridiculous. We might be playing crap and poorly managed but I don't buy that we have a bad squad for a second. We have an imbalanced squad but there is a lot of talent there. 2/3 clever signings (and maybe a managerial change) and we could look a completely transformed side.

People said Man Utd had a shit squad in December and look at them now. All it took was Bruno and a burst of confidence and suddenly Martial and Pogba look like players reborn.

I am not saying our squad is shit because our players are shit. I am saying our squad is shit because our players are exhausted of wearing our shirt.

I think players like Dele Alli have given everything they could give to this team. I am not saying Dele Alli is shit but I don't think he will do well under us anymore. I can see him going to another team and being great again. And you can extend this to a lot of players of our squad.

I think it is something natural when you are in the same place for years: you start to lose motivation. And this is even more evident in the younger generation: they never stay in the same job/company for long time, they are always searching for something new.
 

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
I am not saying our squad is shit because our players are shit. I am saying our squad is shit because our players are exhausted of wearing our shirt.

I think players like Dele Alli have given everything they could give to this team. I am not saying Dele Alli is shit but I don't think he will do well under us anymore. I can see him going to another team and being great again. And you can extend this to a lot of players of our squad.

I think it is something natural when you are in the same place for years: you start to lose motivation. And this is even more evident in the younger generation: they never stay in the same job/company for long time, they are always searching for something new.
That's too oversimplistic for me. I doubt our players, on average, have been at the club for too much longer than at most other clubs. Maybe a little longer but not markedly so.

It's a manager's job to rejuvenate and reinvigorate a group of players, to change a club's culture and how the players feel coming into work. To use your workplace analogy, it's similar to how a new CEO, or manager can completely change the workflow and culture at a workplace.

Look at Klopp and Pep - they made Liverpool and City FEEL like new clubs. Do you think David Silva, Aguero, Henderson etc were itching to leave after so many year at those clubs? I doubt it.
 

isaac94

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,921
9,733
Just curious with Citys CL ban, does 8th place get Europa league football next season?
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
Just curious with Citys CL ban, does 8th place get Europa league football next season?

Potentially.
If City are banned (we find out on Monday 13th July), and one of the Top 7 win the FA Cup, then 8th would be entitled to a spot in the second qualifying round, and have to play 6 games before the group stages.

Although I am sure Aston Villa would argue that if Man City are banned from Europe they should take the League Cup Winners spot, and FA would have to decide between them and 8th spot for the place.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,807
35,543
Serious question - Are we still one of the top six PL teams? (Disregard current position).

For me the answer is no, we have fallen away big time

Liverpool
Mancity
Chelsea
Man utd
Arsenal
Wolves

are all ahead of us as they are all improving while we have gone backwards

Good question... no , we are not in top6 now.
Any team in Top6 should have it in them to go on a run, say, atleast 5 games unbeaten or more over the season.
Last time we went on a 5 game unbeaten run was in Dec 2018.
We haven't been on a 4 game unbeaten run since Feb 2019...the month at which our current wretched run started. This was why , even if we couldnt make the CL this season, I was hoping for a nice unbeaten run in the 9 games.

We are so far off the pace currently, it's embarrassing.

Squad needs a huge repair - IMO, we have to throw out atleast 8 players.
 

KikoSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2019
379
936
That's too oversimplistic for me. I doubt our players, on average, have been at the club for too much longer than at most other clubs. Maybe a little longer but not markedly so.

It's a manager's job to rejuvenate and reinvigorate a group of players, to change a club's culture and how the players feel coming into work. To use your workplace analogy, it's similar to how a new CEO, or manager can completely change the workflow and culture at a workplace.

Look at Klopp and Pep - they made Liverpool and City FEEL like new clubs. Do you think David Silva, Aguero, Henderson etc were itching to leave after so many year at those clubs? I doubt it.

Even Guardiola once said about rejuvenate (by adding new players and selling others) the squad after a couple of years to keep interest and motivation high. Pretty sure SAF also said and did that.

Also you went for exemption, players like Henderson are gonna wear the badge through and through. But I can also go for exemption and say about Eriksen not being able to hit a decent cross for over a year and then scoring an Olympic Goal a couple of weeks ago, wearing the azure shirt.

You can only motivate if your players are willing to be motivated. So far we had two excellent managers and one failed to motivate them and one is struggling atm. And odds are great enough to even dare to say he's also gonna fail.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,561
Potentially.
If City are banned (we find out on Monday 13th July), and one of the Top 7 win the FA Cup, then 8th would be entitled to a spot in the second qualifying round, and have to play 6 games before the group stages.

Although I am sure Aston Villa would argue that if Man City are banned from Europe they should take the League Cup Winners spot, and FA would have to decide between them and 8th spot for the place.
The FA will go for 8th over Villa every day of the week. City have still won the League Cup, they won't have their win annulled, so that European spot has already been moved to the PL and there's no amount of complaining from Villa that will change that.
 

bubble07

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2004
22,959
29,896
In 2 minds about Europa. We have built upna decent coefficient score (last 5 years). If we miss out on europe completely it will damage the score
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,561
In 2 minds about Europa. We have built upna decent coefficient score (last 5 years). If we miss out on europe completely it will damage the score
I'm not in two minds.

We need European football. Our squad needs European football to ensure most players get a decent amount of games.

The EL kickstarted Harry Kane's career, who's to say Skipp or Cirkin or (optimistically) Parrott won't be the next player who blossoms thanks to EL football. If you use the EL group stage as a platform for players to develop it's a perfectly fine tournament, excluding potential qualifying rounds which we probably have to go through if we finish 8th, you only have to play two more games in a round of 32 than you would in the CL.

And complaining about a Thursday/Sunday schedule like some fans do is frankly pathetic. There's no logical difference between that and Wednesday/Saturday, it's a purely mental aspect because British fans are used to Saturdays being "football day". I seriously doubt it affects the players at all, especially if we don't play full strength sides in a few away games where there's long travel involved.
 

bubble07

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2004
22,959
29,896
I'm not in two minds.

We need European football. Our squad needs European football to ensure most players get a decent amount of games.

The EL kickstarted Harry Kane's career, who's to say Skipp or Cirkin or (optimistically) Parrott won't be the next player who blossoms thanks to EL football. If you use the EL group stage as a platform for players to develop it's a perfectly fine tournament, excluding potential qualifying rounds which we probably have to go through if we finish 8th, you only have to play two more games in a round of 32 than you would in the CL.

And complaining about a Thursday/Sunday schedule like some fans do is frankly pathetic. There's no logical difference between that and Wednesday/Saturday, it's a purely mental aspect because British fans are used to Saturdays being "football day". I seriously doubt it affects the players at all, especially if we don't play full strength sides in a few away games where there's long travel involved.

Playing 6 qualifying games before season starts doesn't sound too appealing though
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,561
Playing 6 qualifying games before season starts doesn't sound too appealing though
That is the only big drawback, I'll admit that. But we'll be seeded so if we draw dross, which we most likely will, then we can treat it like an extended group stage and rest most of our supposed first XI so players are still fresh for the league games at the weekend.

Just if anyone's interested, here's next seasons schedule. So all qualifiers will actually be single legged which is good news.


 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
That is the only big drawback, I'll admit that. But we'll be seeded so if we draw dross, which we most likely will, then we can treat it like an extended group stage and rest most of our supposed first XI so players are still fresh for the league games at the weekend.

Just if anyone's interested, here's next seasons schedule. So all qualifiers will actually be single legged which is good news.


So 3 qualifying games then, that is very good change for upcoming season UEFA have announced, but Even that only leaves 5 available midweek dates for League games until Xmas and with the League no doubt cramming in fixtures in shortened season means in likelihood we would not have a midweek off at all. We would really have no choice but to play the reserves in Europa.
 

homer hotspur

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2014
2,868
4,637
That's too oversimplistic for me. I doubt our players, on average, have been at the club for too much longer than at most other clubs. Maybe a little longer but not markedly so.

It's a manager's job to rejuvenate and reinvigorate a group of players, to change a club's culture and how the players feel coming into work. To use your workplace analogy, it's similar to how a new CEO, or manager can completely change the workflow and culture at a workplace.

Look at Klopp and Pep - they made Liverpool and City FEEL like new clubs. Do you think David Silva, Aguero, Henderson etc were itching to leave after so many year at those clubs? I doubt it.
I think there is a tendency to overrate our squad though. Before the re-start many people were getting carried away by its apparent strength but ,although undoubtedly full of very good players, there are huge flaws and gaps in all areas . A couple of world class players ( Kane and Son) but we don't exist in a vacuum and the premier league has been gradually evening itself out over the last few seasons( apart from Liverpool and city). We have gradually deteriorated whilst the new ambitious clubs have improved, no longer needing to sell their best players to keep afloat.
I even watched Brighton yesterday and thought not for the first time this season, what a good and improving team they look. I'd be more than happy to transplant their 2 centre defenders into our defence. We have a large squad of mostly very good individuals but are miles off replicating the teams we had a few seasons back and my worry is that I'm not sure where we go from here given the inevitable difficult transfer window and the nagging doubts that we have the right manager in place.
 
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