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fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
#ENICOUT trending on Twitter if that means anything. I think we may hear a few chants or see a few banners at the utd game or games soon after if our poor form continues. Fans furious on Twitter like I’ve not seen before.
 

joelstinton14

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2011
1,295
3,429
It beggars belief how Levy gets such little venom in here and in general. He didn’t build a stadium. He didn’t design a stadium. He helped to find the funds for the stadium. He didn’t even deliver it on time. He did however fail to invest in two transfer windows believing the squad was sustainable as it was.

Because in the grand scheme of things he has done a good job? It not that hard to understand.
Think some people need to get a bit of perspective of what we have Achieved under their tenure and what our general Trajectory has been; which has been up.

If we had Mike Ashley has a chairman or the dildo brothers I might be a little bit more sympathetic to you or other posts wanting to protest or shout and scream , but to read the continued inane shite about a side that has established it self as Champions League regulars, that has laid the foundations down for future success actually does my head in.

No club is ever run perfectly but if people are thinking of protesting about a club that in general is going upwards and as been since 2005 with a few wobbles here and there and duck knows what fans of Everton, Newcastle, Villa, West Ham, Leeds etc must feel like. Those clubs would rip an arm and a leg off to be where we are. We would look like complete idiots if we started protesting.
 
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SUIYHA

Well-Known Member
Jan 15, 2017
1,723
8,579
Levy did an unbelievable job in dragging us against all the odds from mid-table obscurity to establish ourselves as one of the "big six" and stay there for over a decade, against all the odds, whilst managing a budget carefully and moving us into a stadium that will increase our financial muscle every season from now on.

Levy has made some very short-sighted / negligent decisions that have resulted in us failing to capitalise on this position that has now resulted in us going backwards.

I don't know why some of you find this so difficult, but both of these statements are true. Just as the last two or three seasons do not change the fact that Levy/ENIC grew the club to a level most wouldn't have thought possible without an oil billionaire investing into it, likewise the fact that we've improved so much since the 90s do not excuse the mistakes of the last couple of windows where we've gone from talking about Dybala and Fernandes to this pile of crap.

Overall Levy has been overwhelming positive for the club. And I do hope he can sort things out in the summer. But it just feels like too many mistakes have been made in the past couple of years and I think it's going to take some time before we can get back to where we were. Maybe the stadium becomes the failsafe in a world of FFP that allows us to do it. But we're going to have to buy much smarter this summer than we have done since at least the 2015 summer window which is coming up to five years ago now - that's hard to see.
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
I keep getting "optimistic" ratings on my "total rebuild" comment, but Id say those that think we are going to sell 8 or 9 players and get a total rebuild are being more optimistic. So a more useful exercise is which 3 or 4 would you move on and what 3 or 4 positions would you upgrade?
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Honestly I've had enough of this argument. He's been I charge for our longest period without trophies, he hires and fires the managers and buys the players.

When do you start questioning the man at the top? Genuine question.

Because eventually the buck has to stop with him.

sorry only just caught up properly and didn't read all before answering the 1st time (something I do to often)

can you tell me in the rest of our history when there have been owners that have had owners like Chelsea and Man C that made it so much harder to compete. there are 3 challenges if not in Europe or 4 with. Abramovic has helped buy 16 of them, City owners have bought 11, Man U dominated the league at a time to get all those funds 14, Liverpool haven't been as dominant until now 7, Arsenal have won 8. the few other winners are either in lower leagues now and just got the luck to get them to the finals to win.
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
18,702
46,941
I keep getting "optimistic" ratings on my "total rebuild" comment, but Id say those that think we are going to sell 8 or 9 players and get a total rebuild are being more optimistic. So a more useful exercise is which 3 or 4 would you move on and what 3 or 4 positions would you upgrade?
Get what you’re saying but to say we only need 3-4 players is why you’re getting optimistic ratings as we need about 8-9!

for 3-4 I’d prioritise :
RB, LB, CM, ST
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
#ENICOUT trending on Twitter if that means anything. I think we may hear a few chants or see a few banners at the utd game or games soon after if our poor form continues. Fans furious on Twitter like I’ve not seen before.
better get them out soon before the season is suspended.
 

TC18

Lurker
Jan 27, 2011
529
1,699
Well, tell me what money we had to spare over that time? or the annual figures would have shown them nicking the income instead of putting it towards the stadium. they paid 450m off of the stadium and other than 1 season at Wembley when we were getting cracking crowds week in week out when at home which resulted in record profits ONCE. in the 36k stadium for 9 years 1 with only 28k how the fuck do we make profits of more than 45m per season?

Before I start I must admit I’ve always liked Levy and I’ve admired your enthusiasm for defending him.

I’m now at the point where even I am struggling to defend him. You are correct in what you say, we did pay off huge chucks of the stadium. But did we need such a grand stadium and project? I think us as fan would have been happy with a less fancy stadium and more investment into the playing squad.

So who benefits the most from the fancy multi-purpose stadium? Is it really the fans, or the investment company pushing for it? When all’s said and done, how much will these events actually benefit a football club? The investment company has very little to risk but stand to gain a hell of a lot of money.


I’m growing tired of this “wait and see” attitude and I’ve been telling people that for years. At what point will we start acting like a football club and show some real ambition and leadership to go out and actually want to win something, instead of hiding behind excuses.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Lighty do you ever stop talking your horseshit excuses? You ramble on like you have something personal to gain in your noble defence of ENIC, I've long stopped arguing with you about any of your nonsense as I realized it was futile. Do yourself a favor mate and give over, ENIC couldn't give a fuck about you either, just the size of your wallet...

Vote Trump 2020 (joke btw lighty)

well tell me where the money is that hasn't been spent. a simple question you all expect every window 50-60m to be spent but other than Lewis and Levy paying it out of their own pockets then where does the money needed come from
 

Dillspur

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
3,747
9,926
sorry only just caught up properly and didn't read all before answering the 1st time (something I do to often)

can you tell me in the rest of our history when there have been owners that have had owners like Chelsea and Man C that made it so much harder to compete. there are 3 challenges if not in Europe or 4 with. Abramovic has helped buy 16 of them, City owners have bought 11, Man U dominated the league at a time to get all those funds 14, Liverpool haven't been as dominant until now 7, Arsenal have won 8. the few other winners are either in lower leagues now and just got the luck to get them to the finals to win.

We competed with Poch for the title for 2 seasons, we should have taken a risk the season after Leciester won the league, the summer of 17 we got Sissoko, Janssen, N'koudou and Wanyama.

Wanyama was immense, Sissoko while a beast last year, honestly is a squad player at best. If my memory is correct Sissoko and Janssen were taken as alternatives to first choices. That was the summer where Levy should have taken the risk.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
We'll never know what really happened that summer, I like most have a theory, but I do think Poch has to take some blame, if he can't get his first choice he has to have a viable alternative, but again we've seen what Levy's alternatives are and they usually go out on loan a couple of times before being sold.

Ultimately making 1car work is easier than not having any.

exactly you spend what you have, and can spend

if Levy offered viable alternatives it might be because those where the only 1's for sale. if de Ligt, or De Jong or Ndombele (previous season) are not available, then Poch has to choose others or take the alternatives. you buy players that are either for sale, or hope the offers for players that aren't are accepted or the figure the selling club comes back with is within your budget if they would even consider it.

they also need to know the wage structure, at the time no way we pay Mane 130k when our top earners are on 100k
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
We competed with Poch for the title for 2 seasons, we should have taken a risk the season after Leciester won the league, the summer of 17 we got Sissoko, Janssen, N'koudou and Wanyama.

Wanyama was immense, Sissoko while a beast last year, honestly is a squad player at best. If my memory is correct Sissoko and Janssen were taken as alternatives to first choices. That was the summer where Levy should have taken the risk.
what risk? whose money should he have risked?
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
Well, tell me what money we had to spare over that time? or the annual figures would have shown them nicking the income instead of putting it towards the stadium. they paid 450m off of the stadium and other than 1 season at Wembley when we were getting cracking crowds week in week out when at home which resulted in record profits ONCE. in the 36k stadium for 9 years 1 with only 28k how the fuck do we make profits of more than 45m per season?

Yes paid £450m off a stadium from our accumulated profits in effect, a stadium that they made a decision to give themselves an unlimited budget, design with retractable pitch, and everything to the highest level, things that are certainly not needed for a football club.
The extra circa £400m cost from initial to final spec, was certainly not required for our football club, and let's be honest we could still have held all the events we have signed up to there. It turned into a vanity project, at the expense of what supporters are really interested in, the team.
Those accumulated profits could easily have gone towards the team if that was the business model of the owners, and we could still have had a stadium we would all be very happy with for generations to come.

However ENIC's whole MO is to re-invest the profits in fixed assets, Lilywhite House, College, Training Ground, Exorbitant Stadium, future Hotel, future Housing etc, and no doubt they have plenty more ideas of how to re-invest the majority of future profits in non-playing staff related projects (players like to play golf, why not buy a few courses), to basically improve the Balance Sheet further.

The meeting with THST was quite clear, and damning really. We will not be spending big on any established players, we will be buying young and promoting through the academy, and they will probably try and do enough for us to have a shot at 4th place each year, nothing more.
However they also said they will continue what they are doing and re-investing profits.
 
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joelstinton14

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2011
1,295
3,429
Before I start I must admit I’ve always liked Levy and I’ve admired your enthusiasm for defending him.

I’m now at the point where even I am struggling to defend him. You are correct in what you say, we did pay off huge chucks of the stadium. But did we need such a grand stadium and project? I think us as fan would have been happy with a less fancy stadium and more investment into the playing squad.

So who benefits the most from the fancy multi-purpose stadium? Is it really the fans, or the investment company pushing for it? When all’s said and done, how much will these events actually benefit a football club? The investment company has very little to risk but stand to gain a hell of a lot of money.


I’m growing tired of this “wait and see” attitude and I’ve been telling people that for years. At what point will we start acting like a football club and show some real ambition and leadership to go out and actually want to win something, instead of hiding behind excuses.

In theory the extra events and multi purpose use increases revenue. FFP means that a club can only ever spend a certain percentage of what a club generates in income. So the higher that revenue is; the more a club can spend. It’s then a question on how or where that income is invested. A part of Man UTD continued success (even if it has waned, but the money has still been spent) is because of their commercial reach.

Clubs have been striving to push income revenues to gain advantages to the point where Man City and Paris St Germain have been done (well the former at least) because of some dodgy ways of manipulating income figures through sponsorship. The FFP has changed the way clubs operate; even if it could do more.

It may read cold and commercial but i guess that what modern football is sadly.

Having the NFL, bars, events in place should leave us in good stead. In theory. I guess we have to wait and see ;)
 

scat1620

L'espion mal fait
May 11, 2008
16,280
52,491
The minutes of the meeting between the THST and the Club suggest that the Spurs hierachy's plan is business-as-usual and that they don't believe there is a correlation between spending money on the squad and footballing success.

Meanwhile, in this morning's local paper in Leicestershire, we see what Leicester "Premier League champions 2016 and currently sitting very comfortably above Spurs in the league table" City's attitude is:


Chalk and cheese.
 

carmeldevil

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2018
7,588
45,109
Levy did an unbelievable job in dragging us against all the odds from mid-table obscurity to establish ourselves as one of the "big six" and stay there for over a decade, against all the odds, whilst managing a budget carefully and moving us into a stadium that will increase our financial muscle every season from now on.

Levy has made some very short-sighted / negligent decisions that have resulted in us failing to capitalise on this position that has now resulted in us going backwards.

I don't know why some of you find this so difficult, but both of these statements are true. Just as the last two or three seasons do not change the fact that Levy/ENIC grew the club to a level most wouldn't have thought possible without an oil billionaire investing into it, likewise the fact that we've improved so much since the 90s do not excuse the mistakes of the last couple of windows where we've gone from talking about Dybala and Fernandes to this pile of crap.

Overall Levy has been overwhelming positive for the club. And I do hope he can sort things out in the summer. But it just feels like too many mistakes have been made in the past couple of years and I think it's going to take some time before we can get back to where we were. Maybe the stadium becomes the failsafe in a world of FFP that allows us to do it. But we're going to have to buy much smarter this summer than we have done since at least the 2015 summer window which is coming up to five years ago now - that's hard to see.

Levy did well bringing Spurs to where we are. But if we want to go further, it'll have to be someone else. Not necessarily another owner but someone who knows what it takes to reach that level and would have the budget to do it. Will it happen? Nah.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Before I start I must admit I’ve always liked Levy and I’ve admired your enthusiasm for defending him.

I’m now at the point where even I am struggling to defend him. You are correct in what you say, we did pay off huge chucks of the stadium. But did we need such a grand stadium and project? I think us as fan would have been happy with a less fancy stadium and more investment into the playing squad.

So who benefits the most from the fancy multi-purpose stadium? Is it really the fans, or the investment company pushing for it? When all’s said and done, how much will these events actually benefit a football club? The investment company has very little to risk but stand to gain a hell of a lot of money.


I’m growing tired of this “wait and see” attitude and I’ve been telling people that for years. At what point will we start acting like a football club and show some real ambition and leadership to go out and actually want to win something, instead of hiding behind excuses.

to be honest if we hadn't had such a fancy stadium I doubt it would have made much difference in those 10 years, we would have just been in a lot less debt than we are now. this stadium has been built for the future and some/most of us might never see the benefits but it will keep us up there being able to compete on wages, when at the old we couldn't even get close.

what I really hope for personally is to get a DoF, and a better scouting team. I would also one day just like to see us get some luck at the crucial times, because a lot of the time luck comes into it, I think the last time or time before Arsenal won the FA Cup and played 2 non league teams.

the wait and see is something we will just have to be patient for, perhaps seeing us win 5 trophies at a time when football was football, and not money orientated makes me a little more patient. I followed us when we played in the 2nd tier of football, and I'd follow us if we went to the 4th tier or even lower. half if not most the ENIC moaners want them out, without a guarantee anyone will come in and do better, the Abramovic and Sheik days are over because of the FFP ruling, and both those clubs have spent near on 2b to get there (Chelsea 1.86b, Man C 1.85b).
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,244
17,536
Only last season we beat Real Madrid... or season before that. So the fact we now need 8-9 players to get back to that is a disgrace in terms of squad management.
and coclhester beat us. do you honestly believe colchester has the same quality across the board just because they beat us?
 
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