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Match Threads Burnley vs Spurs - Match Thread

Match Prediction

  • Spurs to win convincingly

    Votes: 13 8.8%
  • Spurs to fluke a win

    Votes: 34 23.1%
  • Spurs to lose

    Votes: 77 52.4%
  • Score Draw

    Votes: 20 13.6%
  • Goalless Draw

    Votes: 3 2.0%

  • Total voters
    147
  • Poll closed .

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
21,016
34,214
But none of us know what went on...to pin the blame on him without any factual knowledge just seems mad.

Look, we'd had an uninterrupted series of windows spanning years, under several managers, which were a flawless mix of pragmatism, value, quality and an eye to the future and squad cohesion which satisfied all our needs and wants and with which very few fans ever had quibble.

Then Jose rocks up and it all goes to shit.
 

isaac94

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2017
2,921
9,733
On a more positive note, nice to see Verts playing decent in the last 2 games, would have hated that Southampton game to be his ending
 

guiltyparty

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2005
9,023
13,524
Well If your point is decay I would think that there are inevitably going to be some troughs considering we have lost Sonny since his last minute Villa winner and results have tanked since then. We have to consider the concept of performance cumulatively - it can’t be based on one month of a three/four month stint.

Spent - I meant on fumes. Thought it was obvious today but I may be wrong

my point is it isn’t even true. Dunno where BBC got that

30291B62-F931-4F14-955B-A6BB3073A31F.jpeg
 

ginola007

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
880
1,142
We were in relegation form for something close to 30 league matches before Poch was sacked. "Dogshit" is perhaps a bit strong but I'd say it's fitting for that kind of form over such a long time.

If Kane being out is so predictable (and I agree that it is), then why is Son our only other viable option up top? It's rank mismanagement of the squad, that's why. With Son as our only striker he has to play every match which greatly increases the likelihood of injury, and then when the injury comes to pass we're completely and utterly fucked.

I can understand why we didn't buy a striker in January, as panic buying can cause major problems down the line when you wind up stuck with second rate players on the books, but the club never should have let Llorente go without replacement in the summer. It was clear from the way last season transpired (Son being away on international duty when Kane was injured, Son picking up the red card against Bournemouth and the subsequent ban to end the league campaign) that we needed a third option. The club played with fire and got burned.
During Bill Nicholoson's time, when the squad was much smaller, he used to throw the centre back, Mike England, up front on a few occasions when the likes of Martin Chivers or Alan Gilzean were injured. Using the same logic, Vert or Dier could be used as target men up front. They may lack mobility, but so was Llorente. At least we have some height and physical presence where it counts.
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
my point is it isn’t even true. Dunno where BBC got that

View attachment 64319

We won four of our final 16 league games under Poch, drawing six and losing the other six, earning 18 points out of a possible 48.

In Jose's first 16 we have had eight league wins, two draws and six defeats as Tottenham manager, picking up 26 points out of a possible 48. And the poor results have been directly linked to us losing Eriksen and our two main strikers.

Its not rocket science. We were collapsing under Poch. Jose came in and has definitely picked us up, even with a a lot of injuries and individual mistakes and players struggling with confidence.

He is and has been one of the best managers in the world. But this is not Football Manager on the PC. He has only had a bit more than 3 months. But there has been clear improvement and the focus has been on results. What I find surprising is how people are so quick to jump on Jose in every way and yearn for Poch. It seems emotion based and does not have any substantive basis. Even the attacks on Dan Levy - you have to look at the bigger picture. He is commercially savvy and has made us one of the biggest clubs in the world and we have Jose Mourinho as a manager. Could any of us ever imagine that about 5-10 years ago?

The second half against Burnley is a reflection of how Jose wants his teams to play - solid without the ball and explosion into action when attacking. It is an approach that has worked and won actual trophies in every country he has been in. We have won two league cups in 25 years. Everyone complains about our lack of trophies and/or Jose football. When did we play this brilliant one touch Barca stuff that won us trophies? When we get a proven winner - one of the most successful in football history - people are calling for his sacking in about 3 months even with the stats above. Mind boggling, short term, reactive, tunnel visioned bs.

The only solution is have some country (Man City) or some shady oligarch (Chelsea) or some debt funded corporate (Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool) make us their toy and pump limitless amount of money into the club. Get bloody real. We need - and have - sound people who have Tottenham in their best interests and are looking at long term improvement and strategy. Yes we will have troughs but that is where we step up as fans and support this glorious club - which is what our damn jobs are. Yes let us rant during a game - thats what this site is for. But dont try to position that as some well thought out substantiation of club strategy and match tactics. Its a match day rant. We are headed in the right direction and need to stay close to the team through peaks and troughs.

Come on you Spurs.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
We won four of our final 16 league games under Poch, drawing six and losing the other six, earning 18 points out of a possible 48.

In Jose's first 16 we have had eight league wins, two draws and six defeats as Tottenham manager, picking up 26 points out of a possible 48. And the poor results have been directly linked to us losing Eriksen and our two main strikers.

Its not rocket science. We were collapsing under Poch. Jose came in and has definitely picked us up, even with a a lot of injuries and individual mistakes and players struggling with confidence.

He is and has been one of the best managers in the world. But this is not Football Manager on the PC. He has only had a bit more than 3 months. But there has been clear improvement and the focus has been on results. What I find surprising is how people are so quick to jump on Jose in every way and yearn for Poch. It seems emotion based and does not have any substantive basis. Even the attacks on Dan Levy - you have to look at the bigger picture. He is commercially savvy and has made us one of the biggest clubs in the world and we have Jose Mourinho as a manager. Could any of us ever imagine that about 5-10 years ago?

The second half against Burnley is a reflection of how Jose wants his teams to play - solid without the ball and explosion into action when attacking. It is an approach that has worked and won actual trophies in every country he has been in. We have won two league cups in 25 years. Everyone complains about our lack of trophies and/or Jose football. When did we play this brilliant one touch Barca stuff that won us trophies? When we get a proven winner - one of the most successful in football history - people are calling for his sacking in about 3 months even with the stats above. Mind boggling, short term, reactive, tunnel visioned bs.

The only solution is have some country (Man City) or some shady oligarch (Chelsea) or some debt funded corporate (Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool) make us their toy and pump limitless amount of money into the club. Get bloody real. We need - and have - sound people who have Tottenham in their best interests and are looking at long term improvement and strategy. Yes we will have troughs but that is where we step up as fans and support this glorious club - which is what our damn jobs are. Yes let us rant during a game - thats what this site is for. But dont try to position that as some well thought out substantiation of club strategy and match tactics. Its a match day rant. We are headed in the right direction and need to stay close to the team through peaks and troughs.

Come on you Spurs.
I mostly agree, but putting Liverpool with the rest of them is a bit unfair IMO. They've spent pretty much the same on us as transfers in the last few years, somewhat more on wages but that's offset by greater commercial revenue and not building a new ground. They're not bankrolled or debt-ridden, and they've achieved their recent success after years of doing worse than us through shrewd decision making, great management, and a lot of belief. Fair play to them.
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
I mostly agree, but putting Liverpool with the rest of them is a bit unfair IMO. They've spent pretty much the same on us as transfers in the last few years, somewhat more on wages but that's offset by greater commercial revenue and not building a new ground. They're not bankrolled or debt-ridden, and they've achieved their recent success after years of doing worse than us through shrewd decision making, great management, and a lot of belief. Fair play to them.

Yeah probably fair
 

guiltyparty

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2005
9,023
13,524
We won four of our final 16 league games under Poch, drawing six and losing the other six, earning 18 points out of a possible 48.

In Jose's first 16 we have had eight league wins, two draws and six defeats as Tottenham manager, picking up 26 points out of a possible 48. And the poor results have been directly linked to us losing Eriksen and our two main strikers.

Its not rocket science. We were collapsing under Poch. Jose came in and has definitely picked us up, even with a a lot of injuries and individual mistakes and players struggling with confidence.

He is and has been one of the best managers in the world. But this is not Football Manager on the PC. He has only had a bit more than 3 months. But there has been clear improvement and the focus has been on results. What I find surprising is how people are so quick to jump on Jose in every way and yearn for Poch. It seems emotion based and does not have any substantive basis. Even the attacks on Dan Levy - you have to look at the bigger picture. He is commercially savvy and has made us one of the biggest clubs in the world and we have Jose Mourinho as a manager. Could any of us ever imagine that about 5-10 years ago?

The second half against Burnley is a reflection of how Jose wants his teams to play - solid without the ball and explosion into action when attacking. It is an approach that has worked and won actual trophies in every country he has been in. We have won two league cups in 25 years. Everyone complains about our lack of trophies and/or Jose football. When did we play this brilliant one touch Barca stuff that won us trophies? When we get a proven winner - one of the most successful in football history - people are calling for his sacking in about 3 months even with the stats above. Mind boggling, short term, reactive, tunnel visioned bs.

The only solution is have some country (Man City) or some shady oligarch (Chelsea) or some debt funded corporate (Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool) make us their toy and pump limitless amount of money into the club. Get bloody real. We need - and have - sound people who have Tottenham in their best interests and are looking at long term improvement and strategy. Yes we will have troughs but that is where we step up as fans and support this glorious club - which is what our damn jobs are. Yes let us rant during a game - thats what this site is for. But dont try to position that as some well thought out substantiation of club strategy and match tactics. Its a match day rant. We are headed in the right direction and need to stay close to the team through peaks and troughs.

Come on you Spurs.

I think you’re conflating a lot of people’s arguments there, most of which I haven’t made, but fair play.

I think much of what you say has value. Some of it not so much. We’ll see in the long run how much is wishful thinking
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
I think you’re conflating a lot of people’s arguments there, most of which I haven’t made, but fair play.

I think much of what you say has value. Some of it not so much. We’ll see in the long run how much is wishful thinking

Yeah was not in direct response to our previous exchange on stats. But the general tone on this site of “Jose is spent; Levy is some penny pincher; Poch is a genius who was unfairly treated” I don’t really get it. Give people a chance.

Sorry for posting all that in response to your stats message
 

VegasII

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2008
9,750
16,670
During Bill Nicholoson's time, when the squad was much smaller, he used to throw the centre back, Mike England, up front on a few occasions when the likes of Martin Chivers or Alan Gilzean were injured. Using the same logic, Vert or Dier could be used as target men up front. They may lack mobility, but so was Llorente. At least we have some height and physical presence where it counts.

I’d put Toby up front if we got mega stuck.
 

guiltyparty

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2005
9,023
13,524
Yeah was not in direct response to our previous exchange on stats. But the general tone on this site of “Jose is spent; Levy is some penny pincher; Poch is a genius who was unfairly treated” I don’t really get it. Give people a chance.

Sorry for posting all that in response to your stats message

It’s alright. For what it’s worth, I think:

A) Poch had lost his head and needed to go. We had been in decline for a long time and the slightly fortuitous Champions League run papered over the cracks.
B) However his point about the painful rebuild was very true and that’s a reality we can’t escape, whether it’s undertaken by him, Jose or someone else. I’m not convinced Levy has fully engaged with this or appreciates the magnitude
C) José is one of the best managers ever but is definitely in decline. He’s also always spent an inordinate amount of money wherever he’s been which makes him a slightly strange choice as Spurs manager
D) José has done ok so far in terms of results in tough circumstances but we are dreadful to watch. I expected more obvious organisation from a Jose team and we still look all over the shop
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
It’s alright. For what it’s worth, I think:

A) Poch had lost his head and needed to go. We had been in decline for a long time and the slightly fortuitous Champions League run papered over the cracks.
B) However his point about the painful rebuild was very true and that’s a reality we can’t escape, whether it’s undertaken by him, Jose or someone else. I’m not convinced Levy has fully engaged with this or appreciates the magnitude
C) José is one of the best managers ever but is definitely in decline. He’s also always spent an inordinate amount of money wherever he’s been which makes him a slightly strange choice as Spurs manager
D) José has done ok so far in terms of results in tough circumstances but we are dreadful to watch. I expected more obvious organisation from a Jose team and we still look all over the shop

Yep - can understand why one would have these points of view.

A timely BBC article - decent read

 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
Now we have Mourinho I want him to succeed. The football in certain games has been good and if he can expand on that we won't have a problem with the football we Tottenham fans like to see, even the low block against teams that deserve our respect fair enough when done properly it can be effective.

I would have thought Mourinho had learnt from past jobs ie the line he went down publicly lambasting individual doesn't sit well.

Mourinho is a master tactician and he deserves time, a few windows at least to balance the squad. Looking at the squad we have some very good young talented players, add more explosiveness, leadership and know how players I think we are pretty well set up to maybe dominate depending on Levy releasing the fund's.
 

TURKISH69

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2012
505
735
We won four of our final 16 league games under Poch, drawing six and losing the other six, earning 18 points out of a possible 48.

In Jose's first 16 we have had eight league wins, two draws and six defeats as Tottenham manager, picking up 26 points out of a possible 48. And the poor results have been directly linked to us losing Eriksen and our two main strikers.

Its not rocket science. We were collapsing under Poch. Jose came in and has definitely picked us up, even with a a lot of injuries and individual mistakes and players struggling with confidence.

He is and has been one of the best managers in the world. But this is not Football Manager on the PC. He has only had a bit more than 3 months. But there has been clear improvement and the focus has been on results. What I find surprising is how people are so quick to jump on Jose in every way and yearn for Poch. It seems emotion based and does not have any substantive basis. Even the attacks on Dan Levy - you have to look at the bigger picture. He is commercially savvy and has made us one of the biggest clubs in the world and we have Jose Mourinho as a manager. Could any of us ever imagine that about 5-10 years ago?

The second half against Burnley is a reflection of how Jose wants his teams to play - solid without the ball and explosion into action when attacking. It is an approach that has worked and won actual trophies in every country he has been in. We have won two league cups in 25 years. Everyone complains about our lack of trophies and/or Jose football. When did we play this brilliant one touch Barca stuff that won us trophies? When we get a proven winner - one of the most successful in football history - people are calling for his sacking in about 3 months even with the stats above. Mind boggling, short term, reactive, tunnel visioned bs.

The only solution is have some country (Man City) or some shady oligarch (Chelsea) or some debt funded corporate (Man United, Arsenal, Liverpool) make us their toy and pump limitless amount of money into the club. Get bloody real. We need - and have - sound people who have Tottenham in their best interests and are looking at long term improvement and strategy. Yes we will have troughs but that is where we step up as fans and support this glorious club - which is what our damn jobs are. Yes let us rant during a game - thats what this site is for. But dont try to position that as some well thought out substantiation of club strategy and match tactics. Its a match day rant. We are headed in the right direction and need to stay close to the team through peaks and troughs.

Come on you Spurs.
We all support the club but when you see the Tottenham Hotspur supporters club minutes at the annual meeting comments from Levy all the money we make from the stadium we invest straight back in to the club/team I’m sorry what a load of bollocks. I agree we are in a better place off the field than 10 yrs ago but you really think we are going in right direction on the field no chance. Levy is going to loose millions by not being in European football next season which will leave us miles off it. So on field we have regressed massively, but you can’t blame Poch or Jose down to complete lack of investment on the pitch at the time when we needed it. 2/3 quality players 2 seasons ago we could of potentially been where Liverpool are, but Liverpool done what we should of and they are reeping the rewards and unfortunately we are not!!!
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
We all support the club but when you see the Tottenham Hotspur supporters club minutes at the annual meeting comments from Levy all the money we make from the stadium we invest straight back in to the club/team I’m sorry what a load of bollocks. I agree we are in a better place off the field than 10 yrs ago but you really think we are going in right direction on the field no chance. Levy is going to loose millions by not being in European football next season which will leave us miles off it. So on field we have regressed massively, but you can’t blame Poch or Jose down to complete lack of investment on the pitch at the time when we needed it. 2/3 quality players 2 seasons ago we could of potentially been where Liverpool are, but Liverpool done what we should of and they are reeping the rewards and unfortunately we are not!!!

So basically your point is Levy has to pump in more money? Sess, NDombele, Lo Celso , Bergwyn etc not good enough to start with in your view? Toby signing? Do we have a Coutinho lottery win which we can use to pump in more cash? Kane to Madrid?

What would be your proposed solution?
 

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2014
5,694
156,565
So basically your point is Levy has to pump in more money? Sess, NDombele, Lo Celso , Bergwyn etc not good enough to start with in your view? Toby signing? Do we have a Coutinho lottery win which we can use to pump in more cash? Kane to Madrid?

What would be your proposed solution?
Put that in context for the previous windows of 2 years of zero spend. Just balancing it out.
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
Put that in context for the previous windows of 2 years of zero spend. Just balancing it out.

I also put that in context of us building a genuinely world class stadium over the last couple of years with Brexit clouds looming, the pound losing value and inflating construction prices. Have to balance the books.
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
So basically your point is Levy has to pump in more money? Sess, NDombele, Lo Celso , Bergwyn etc not good enough to start with in your view? Toby signing? Do we have a Coutinho lottery win which we can use to pump in more cash? Kane to Madrid?

What would be your proposed solution?

On a general note - Ndombele does look surprisingly unprofessional though- basically fat. Somehow associate him with burgers. And not one of those gourmet ones. Like those massive American style Burger King type ones.

Luke Shaw as well. Visibly overweight. Strange in this modern day and age
 
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