The Y Word

ToDarrenIsToDo · Feb 12, 2020

SpunkyBackpack said:
Yes a picture of a gun is very much the same as an ethnic slur, great point well done. I'm not offended by it, im not Jewish, but plenty of Jewish people have given legitimate reasons why its a word that shouldn't be chanted by a bunch of football fans who want to say it because they like it. For that reason i dont say it and find it really fucking weird that a load of people get incredibly offended and upset that they have been asked not to shout a specific word at a football match, because for some reason they value their chanting above having something close to compassion for their another human being and a word that means nothing to them other than yay my football team.

But fuck David Baddiel for some reason amirite!

Once again, I ask you how many Tottenham fans ever raise the yiddo issue? People need to realise that political correctness can be used as an excuse by some people to moan about fuck all. If it was seen as a word that was truly that bad, do you think our Jewish owner, our Jewish chairman, our previous chairman who was Jewish etc would have stood for it?

It's a word clearly used for endearing purposes at our club, it's not done with malice or aggression. If some people get offended by it that's up to them. I'm more offended by homelessness, actual racism etc not a word used endearingly that clearly doesn't offend many apart from the delicate flowers of the world. I ain't buying it sorry pal.

Quick question, if someone speaks Yiddish and says they speak Yiddish is that a slur? Why should yiddo be deemed a slur when certain people clearly don't use it to be a slur? It's subjective, the same as calling an American a Yankee, a Brit a Pom or a limey, people need to get over it there's genuine issues in the world and this ain't what I'd call one of them.

'O Zio · Feb 12, 2020

wearetheparklane said:
I used to go out with a Jewish girl who was horrified when she heard me say it once when referring to meeting some spurs mates. That was enough for me to not use it again.

To play devil's advocate a bit, you could make the argument that her ignorance the word's history and association with Spurs fans doesn't make it wrong. As the OED now apparently says, it has now evolved to the point of becoming basically an alternate meaning.

As I've said before, in terms of the while anti-Semitism devate at the absolute "worst" it's well-meaning people trying to show solidarity with Jewish people in the face of abuse from rival fans. And at "best" it's just a word with a completely different meaning among the football community nowadays i. e. When people sing "Yiddo, Yiddo" at e.g. Kane, that use of the word has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism and has now evolved to the point of just being a word to mean a spurs fan/spurs player etc. In the same way as e.g. Stoke fans calling themselves "Potters", everyone knows Stoke is famous for pottery and that's where it originates, but nobody ever takes a Stoke fan calling themselves a Potter to mean they literally go to work in a pottery. OED is now just accepting that yid/Yiddo in the context of football has now just become a separate word.

Ronwol196061 · Feb 12, 2020

Levy is Jewish and Spurs let him put his case forward re this.
He knows how endearing a term it is for most Spurs fans he also knows the sensitivity of it to Jewish people.
It CAN be used in a derogatory manner by a rival team so where do you draw the line.
If your team use it what if others use it against you isnt it legit too?
Then what?
Thsts the problem. Not an easy one to resolve

ToDarrenIsToDo · Feb 12, 2020

'O Zio said:
To play devil's advocate a bit, you could make the argument that her ignorance the word's history and association with Spurs fans doesn't make it wrong. As the OED now apparently says, it has now evolved to the point of becoming basically an alternate meaning.

As I've said before, in terms of the while anti-Semitism devate at the absolute "worst" it's well-meaning people trying to show solidarity with Jewish people in the face of abuse from rival fans. And at "best" it's just a word with a completely different meaning among the football community nowadays i. e. When people sing "Yiddo, Yiddo" at e.g. Kane, that use of the word has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism and has now evolved to the point of just being a word to mean a spurs fan/spurs player etc.

Proble, solved, instead of saying Yiddo let's make up a new word that has nothing to do with Jewish folk, just a word purely used to mean a Sours fan/ player.

From now on let's call the, Yeeddos instead. Problem solved as it's a new word with no ties to what apparently offends people.

People get their knickers in a twist about a lot of old nothingness, it's a shame as it'll lead to a lot of unnecessary censorship not just in this case but across a lot of levels in the future.

ToDarrenIsToDo · Feb 12, 2020

Ronwol196061 said:
Levy is Jewish and Spurs let him put his case forward re this.
He knows how endearing a term it is for most Spurs fans he also knows the sensitivity of it to Jewish people.
It CAN be used in a derogatory manner by a rival team so where do you draw the line.
If your team use it what if others use it against you isnt it legit too?
Then what?
Thsts the problem. Not an easy one to resolve

You can say the same about many words used both in endearing and derogatory ways across all walks of life. Ultimately it comes down to the maliciousness in which it's used.

Arsenal has a swear word in it, I don't want my kids hearing such words without my consent. Can I lobby to get them to change their name? It's a word and clearly we use it for endearment, I wish people would leave it alone now.

Ronwol196061 · Feb 12, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
You can say the same about many words used both in endearing and derogatory ways across all walks of life. Ultimately it comes down to the maliciousness in which it's used.

Arsenal has a sweat word in it, I don't want my kids hearing such words without my consent. Can I lobby to get them to change their name? It's a word and clearly we use it for endearment, I wish people would leave it alone now.

I'll stick with what I said to let Levy decide

ToDarrenIsToDo · Feb 12, 2020

Ronwol196061 said:
I'll stick with what I said to let Levy decide

What will be will be, injust think it would be a huge shame if the PC brigade kill off a part of the clubs soul and emotion because a few people get agitated by its use. I think it stands for something amazing based on how it was first used and how we showed how to silence the bile. I think it stands for something good but others clearly don't understand that and some don't agree.

Ronwol196061 · Feb 12, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
What will be will be, injust think it would be a huge shame if the PC brigade kill off a part of the clubs soul and emotion because a few people get agitated by its use. I think it stands for something amazing based on how it was first used and how we showed how to silence the bile. I think it stands for something good but others clearly don't understand that and some don't agree.

If you mean Jewish people,or Jewish Tottenham supporters maybe. Im not going to get into that because its a very sensitive subject personally. So That's why I said let Levy figure it out. From a strictly Tottenham and Jewish perspective I saw it as a positive thing years ago but now the ramifications are there.Its a tough one because I like the yid in a positive way myself. That's why I say let Levy figure it out. He has the power and he understands the history and also the ramifications. Its all ok on the positive side but not on the negative and there is that aspect these days

ToDarrenIsToDo · Feb 12, 2020

Ronwol196061 said:
If you mean Jewish people,or Jewish Tottenham supporters maybe. Im not going to get into that because its a very sensitive subject personally. So That's why I said let Levy figure it out. From a strictly Tottenham and Jewish perspective I saw it as a positive thing years ago but now the ramifications are there.Its a tough one because I like the yid in a positive way myself. That's why I say let Levy figure it out. He has the power and he understands the history and also the ramifications. Its all ok on the positive side but not on the negative and there is that aspect these days

So ultimately the derogatory way non Tottenham fans used it out the endearing way Tottenham fans use it at threat? For me that makes the haters win and stands for all sorts of wrong. As you said what will be will be, the club will eventually figure it all out.

Ronwol196061 · Feb 12, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
So ultimately the derogatory way non Tottenham fans used it out the endearing way Tottenham fans use it at threat? For me that makes the haters win and stands for all sorts of wrong. As you said what will be will be, the club will eventually figure it all out.

Yes that's the easiest way. There are a lot of nuances around this issue and best if its sorted out by the club

Spurslove · Feb 12, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
Once again, I ask you how many Tottenham fans ever raise the yiddo issue? People need to realise that political correctness can be used as an excuse by some people to moan about fuck all. If it was seen as a word that was truly that bad, do you think our Jewish owner, our Jewish chairman, our previous chairman who was Jewish etc would have stood for it?

It's a word clearly used for endearing purposes at our club, it's not done with malice or aggression. If some people get offended by it that's up to them. I'm more offended by homelessness, actual racism etc not a word used endearingly that clearly doesn't offend many apart from the delicate flowers of the world. I ain't buying it sorry pal.

Quick question, if someone speaks Yiddish and says they speak Yiddish is that a slur? Why should yiddo be deemed a slur when certain people clearly don't use it to be a slur? It's subjective, the same as calling an American a Yankee, a Brit a Pom or a limey, people need to get over it there's genuine issues in the world and this ain't what I'd call one of them.

Top post. Well said mate. Far too many professional victims in the world today. (y)

.

Yid121 · Feb 12, 2020

This is all nanny state rubbish. As time goes on less and less fans will even realise it's Jewish association. The minority of the spurs fan Base is Jewish and the majority are not so I say keep yid. If it was only a small contingent that sung yid with the majority being upset I'd understand but it's a part of our identity and removing it would just make football even more soulless

To be honest I'm sick of the issue because David baddiel decided to launch some stupid campaign aimed at spurs to stop using the y word after Chelsea fans were anti-Semitic. So basically a Chelsea fan refusing to blame idiots in his fanbase and blame a rival instead. Jog on.

Should we be calling ourselves blue and white army by the way in songs. Think the white part could cause offence..... Rolls eyes

Ronwol196061 · Feb 12, 2020

Yid121 said:
This is all nanny state rubbish. As time goes on less and less fans will even realise it's Jewish association. The minority of the spurs fan Base is Jewish and the majority are not so I say keep yid. If it was only a small contingent that sung yid with the majority being upset I'd understand but it's a part of our identity and removing it would just make football even more soulless

To be honest I'm sick of the issue because David baddiel decided to launch some stupid campaign aimed at spurs to stop using the y word after Chelsea fans were anti-Semitic. So basically a Chelsea fan refusing to blame idiots in his fanbase and blame a rival instead. Jog on.

Should we be calling ourselves blue and white army by the way in songs. Think the white part could cause offence..... Rolls eyes

Write to Levy and tell him really,I actually like it but I can see the other side of the issue too

fortworthspur · Feb 13, 2020

Ive travelled a lot in Mexico and Central America, and Im definitely a gringo. Gringo comes from "Green Go" home - meaning us soldiers. It can still be an insult but often just means "white" or "white American".

nailsy · Feb 13, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
Once again, I ask you how many Tottenham fans ever raise the yiddo issue? People need to realise that political correctness can be used as an excuse by some people to moan about fuck all. If it was seen as a word that was truly that bad, do you think our Jewish owner, our Jewish chairman, our previous chairman who was Jewish etc would have stood for it?

It's a word clearly used for endearing purposes at our club, it's not done with malice or aggression. If some people get offended by it that's up to them. I'm more offended by homelessness, actual racism etc not a word used endearingly that clearly doesn't offend many apart from the delicate flowers of the world. I ain't buying it sorry pal.

Quick question, if someone speaks Yiddish and says they speak Yiddish is that a slur? Why should yiddo be deemed a slur when certain people clearly don't use it to be a slur? It's subjective, the same as calling an American a Yankee, a Brit a Pom or a limey, people need to get over it there's genuine issues in the world and this ain't what I'd call one of them.

It's not just a few 'delicate flowers' that don't like the word being used, it's a sizeable number of our own supporters:

"In December, the club released the results of a survey on the word, with more than 23,000 responses.
Nearly half of respondents wanted fans to abandon the chant or use it less, with 94% acknowledging it could be considered a racist term against a Jewish person.
But 33% of of respondents said they used the word "regularly" in a football context, while 12% also used it outside of football."

Personally I don't find it offensive, but if it's making our own fans uncomfortable then I don't think we can just dismiss it as a non-issue.

nailsy · Feb 13, 2020

ToDarrenIsToDo said:
Proble, solved, instead of saying Yiddo let's make up a new word that has nothing to do with Jewish folk, just a word purely used to mean a Sours fan/ player.

From now on let's call the, Yeeddos instead. Problem solved as it's a new word with no ties to what apparently offends people.

People get their knickers in a twist about a lot of old nothingness, it's a shame as it'll lead to a lot of unnecessary censorship not just in this case but across a lot of levels in the future.

Why would we even need to make up a new word? We're Spurs. It's already unique to us in a footballing context.

punkisback · Feb 13, 2020

SpunkyBackpack said:
Yes a picture of a gun is very much the same as an ethnic slur, great point well done. I'm not offended by it, im not Jewish, but plenty of Jewish people have given legitimate reasons why its a word that shouldn't be chanted by a bunch of football fans who want to say it because they like it. For that reason i dont say it and find it really fucking weird that a load of people get incredibly offended and upset that they have been asked not to shout a specific word at a football match, because for some reason they value their chanting above having something close to compassion for their another human being and a word that means nothing to them other than yay my football team.

But fuck David Baddiel for some reason amirite!

Completely agree, would not have been able to put it in such eloquent terms. For me the turning point in not singing or saying it was when we started chanting “we’ll sing want we want”. To me it seemed arrogant as if we just wanted to sing anything even if it was deemed offensive rather than actually trying to own the Y word itself or show consideration for those affected. But yeah. Up yours Baddiel.

Gassin's finest · Feb 13, 2020

Spurslove · Feb 13, 2020

Yid121 said:
This is all nanny state rubbish. As time goes on less and less fans will even realise it's Jewish association. The minority of the spurs fan Base is Jewish and the majority are not so I say keep yid. If it was only a small contingent that sung yid with the majority being upset I'd understand but it's a part of our identity and removing it would just make football even more soulless

To be honest I'm sick of the issue because David baddiel decided to launch some stupid campaign aimed at spurs to stop using the y word after Chelsea fans were anti-Semitic. So basically a Chelsea fan refusing to blame idiots in his fanbase and blame a rival instead. Jog on.

Should we be calling ourselves blue and white army by the way in songs. Think the white part could cause offence..... Rolls eyes

Again, I am in full agreement and as a Jewish fan myself, I long for the day all this nonsense is far behind us. We all know what anti-semitism is, but this isn't anything to do with it.

.

nailsy · Feb 13, 2020

Just putting aside whether it's offensive or not for a minute, does everyone agree that if we stopped using the term it would be easier to prosecute opposition fans that tried to use it against us at games than it was twenty or thirty years ago?

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