ENIC in or out?

yido_number1 · Nov 27, 2019

Hakkz said:
Liverpool offered him more money, what do you want to do about that?

That's the point of this thread. Enic in or out. Are they holding us back from taking the next step. Not being able to compete on a player that has helped liverpool win the Champions League and possibly league this year is exactly the point of the thread.

Hakkz · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
That's the point of this thread. Enic in or out. Are they holding us back from taking the next step. Not being able to compete on a player that has helped liverpool win the Champions League and possibly league this year is exactly the point of the thread.

Then you need to look at the point in time when it happened too. The decisions Levy made this summer compared to a couple of summers ago were based on different things. I do blame him for what he has done previously, but he has also juggled the whole stadium-project financially. I expect him to increase the transfer budget and the player wages now that the income is secured.

The hiring of Mourinho has shown that he is clearly ready to take some risk.

dontcallme · Nov 27, 2019

Hakkz said:
Then you need to look at the point in time when it happened too. The decisions Levy made this summer compared to a couple of summers ago were based on different things. I do blame him for what he has done previously, but he has also juggled the whole stadium-project financially. I expect him to increase the transfer budget and the player wages now that the income is secured.

The hiring of Mourinho has shown that he is clearly ready to take some risk.

Exactly. People need to look at our finances and how the turnover has gone up over the years. Our wage bill has been on a continual incline.

So there was a timewhen we failed to buy Moutinho. Can blame Levy or think maybe our turnover and wage structure at the time didn't allow for such an expensive signing.

Over time we went from buying Pamarot, Davies, Carrick etc to Vertonghen, Llloris and Lamela. The latter players all on considersably higher wages than our previous singings. As our turnover goes up so does our wage bill and therefore ability to sign better players.

I have received 3 disagree ratings for saying we don't know the full reason for not getting Grealish.It is my belief that he was seen as a squad player and hopefully in time a starter rather than a big signing.

If we viewed him as a priority then we might have put up the money. I believe due to his contract and Villa's financial position at the time we saw an opportunityfor getting a decent but not great young English talent for cheap. Once he wasn't cheap we didn't buy him.

Can't know that for sure anymore than those writing the deal off as simply Levy being cheap.

Shadydan · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
That's the point of this thread. Enic in or out. Are they holding us back from taking the next step. Not being able to compete on a player that has helped liverpool win the Champions League and possibly league this year is exactly the point of the thread.

We literally took the next step by hiring Mourinho last week

Hakkz · Nov 27, 2019

dontcallme said:
Exactly. People need to look at our finances and how the turnover has gone up over the years. Pur wage bill has been on a continual incline.

So there was a timewhen we failed to buy Moutinho. Can blame Levy or think maybe our turnover and wage structure at the time didn't allow for such an expensive signing.

Over time we went from buying Pamarot, Davies, Carrick etc to Vertonghen, Llloris and Lamela. The latter players all on considersably higher wages than our previous singings. As our turnover goes up so does our wage bill and therefore ability to sign better players.

I have received 3 disagree ratings for saying we don't know the full reason for not getting Grealish.It is my belief that he was seen as a squad player and hopefully in time a starter rather than a big signing.

If we viewed him as a priority then we might have put up the money. I believe due to his contract and Villa's financial position at the time we saw an opportunityfor getting a decent but not great young English talent for cheap. Once he wasn't cheap we didn't buy him.

Can't know that for sure anymore than those writing the deal off as simply Levy being cheap.

I'm with you. The Grealish deal struck me as entirely down to Levy.

I've previously considered Levy to be just that, cheap. He's changed my mind a bit with the summer deals and the appointment of a new manager. If he sets up a new transfer structure and continues getting quality players then I'll be very happy with him.

onthetwo · Nov 27, 2019

Are we doing the mother of all Crowd-funding rounds to buy them out? if City are worth $5bn+ then we'd better get started soon (otherwise lets just lock this meaningless thread).

The Scarecrow · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
That's the point of this thread. Enic in or out. Are they holding us back from taking the next step. Not being able to compete on a player that has helped liverpool win the Champions League and possibly league this year is exactly the point of the thread.

The big questions for me is who would take over? Is the grass really that much greener? Do we really want to be the toy of some mega rich arabs/chinese/yanks? Liverpool have been extremely lucky with there current owners. But how many of the other owners in the league would we rather have than ENIC?

I, for one, am not particularly keen on a Chelsea/City situation. I would love for us to compete on the highest level without that kind of cash injection. And I believe ENIC has set us up very well for the long term. Yes, there have been some dry years in terms of trophies and signings, but with the training ground, stadium and general growth of our global brand, we are set up for future success irrespective of who the owners are.

Under ENIC, we have seen slow and steady progress towards were we find ourselves today, with the biggest managerial name in world football. We haven't been able to leap towards the top of the table like Liverpool, we have taken a slower route. But with Mourinho at the helm, we've finally reached the end game - where we compete at the very top and are expected to do so.

yido_number1 · Nov 27, 2019

The Scarecrow said:
The big questions for me is who would take over? Is the grass really that much greener? Do we really want to be the toy of some mega rich arabs/chinese/yanks? Liverpool have been extremely lucky with there current owners. But how many of the other owners in the league would we rather have than ENIC?

I, for one, am not particularly keen on a Chelsea/City situation. I would love for us to compete on the highest level without that kind of cash injection. And I believe ENIC has set us up very well for the long term. Yes, there have been some dry years in terms of trophies and signings, but with the training ground, stadium and general growth of our global brand, we are set up for future success irrespective of who the owners are.

Under ENIC, we have seen slow and steady progress towards were we find ourselves today, with the biggest managerial name in world football. We haven't been able to leap towards the top of the table like Liverpool, we have taken a slower route. But with Mourinho at the helm, we've finally reached the end game - where we compete at the very top and are expected to do so.

I agree it needs to be the right owner coming in but we won't change under ENIC and consequently you do the same thing over and over again you get the same results, or lack of.

Shadydan said:
We literally took the next step by hiring Mourinho last week

If we back him in the right way we might win something. If we carry on following the same modus operandi we won't do anything. Mourinho needs the right backing and to think things are being done his way. If he isn't backed he will walk away after publicly slating the club, players, Levy etc.

If you honestly think ENIC are going to change their approach of the last 20 years or whatever it's been you are a hell of an optimist.

Graysonti · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
If you honestly think ENIC are going to change their approach of the last 20 years or whatever it's been you are a hell of an optimist.

They already are and we are not the same club as in 2001.

Evidence:

Kane contract, Dele contract, Son contract, not lost big players last five years, signing Mourinho on 2nd largest contract in world football.

And we could argue that had our managers done their jobs, we would have won a fair bit more - look at all the Semis and Finals we lost. Is that a mentality thing ? Certainly not DL fault.

Anyway, I think they have earnt the benefit of the doubt.

The City thing skews things imo

yido_number1 · Nov 27, 2019

Graysonti said:
They already are and we are not the same club as in 2001.

Evidence:

Kane contract, Dele contract, Son contract, not lost big players last five years, signing Mourinho on 2nd largest contract in world football.

And we could argue that had our managers done their jobs, we would have won a fair bit more - look at all the Semis and Finals we lost. Is that a mentality thing ? Certainly not DL fault.

Anyway, I think they have earnt the benefit of the doubt.

The City thing skews things imo

We haven't lost big players in the last 5 years as they are all running down their contracts for better financial offers. To add to that Poch massively punched above his weight over that time period. If we actually invested in the previous windows we might have won something.

Shadydan · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
If we back him in the right way we might win something. If we carry on following the same modus operandi we won't do anything. Mourinho needs the right backing and to think things are being done his way. If he isn't backed he will walk away after publicly slating the club, players, Levy etc.

If you honestly think ENIC are going to change their approach of the last 20 years or whatever it's been you are a hell of an optimist.

How much did we spend in the summer, I make it around £150m or if you want to narrow it down and be super petty then it's around £100m seeing as we haven't technically bought Lo Celso yet...either way ENIC's net spend has never been that high since 2008 when we were threatened by relegation.

ENIC broke our transfer record in 2018 by purchasing Sanchez for £41m,they broke it again this summer by purchasing Ndombele for £55m and it was a deal Levy got done early which is rare as he normally waits until the last minute to get deals done.

ENIC smashed the wage budget when they gave Kane £200k a week and Ndombele if reports are correct is on the same wage. There's also been reports of them offering both Tony and Eriksen similar contracts.

Never before in our history has ENIC paid a manager £15m a year, previous to Mourinho Poch was on £8.5m, what does that suggest to you?

The point I'm making is that you said that ENIC haven't changed their approach in 20 years, I've just given you 4 very recent examples which suggest they have, the fact is they are always changing their approach and improving it to bring it in line with the modern day, it might not be at the speed that you want it but nevertheless you can't argue with their behavior over the last few years has been beneficial for the club.

The problem is people want to ignore it because it doesn't fit with their anti ENIC agenda.

Graysonti · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
We haven't lost big players in the last 5 years as they are all running down their contracts for better financial offers. To add to that Poch massively punched above his weight over that time period. If we actually invested in the previous windows we might have won something.

Bit dramatic mate - all running down their contracts and then ignoring some of our best players in Dele, Kane and Son in signing.

And YOU would have been the first to moan had we sold them all two years ago for big fees - damned either way.

Those players (Eriksen excluded) are all on the way down anyway and all of those players will play for smaller clubs when they leave. This is not a situation unique to Spurs but clubs in general.

My advice to you would stop wasting your time on Spurs and find a hobby that makes you happy. I expect you are one of those people that expect everything for nothing and moan about absolutely everything.

dontcallme · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
I agree it needs to be the right owner coming in but we won't change under ENIC and consequently you do the same thing over and over again you get the same results, or lack of.

If we back him in the right way we might win something. If we carry on following the same modus operandi we won't do anything. Mourinho needs the right backing and to think things are being done his way. If he isn't backed he will walk away after publicly slating the club, players, Levy etc.

If you honestly think ENIC are going to change their approach of the last 20 years or whatever it's been you are a hell of an optimist.

Isn't spending £100m in the summer without selling a change?

If not, then our model has been one of aggressive investment. Trying to be smarter in the transfer market and working hard behind the scenes to increase our turnover.

As turnover has increased so has our wage bill and therefore the qualityof the player we can attract.

The accounts of 2017/18 had our turnover at £22m behind Arsenal. In previous years it has been closer to £100m.

Under ENIC we have gone from lower mid-table to CL regulars. We have continually improved so why can't we continue to do so?

yido_number1 · Nov 27, 2019

Shadydan said:
How much did we spend in the summer, I make it around £150m or if you want to narrow it down and be super petty then it's around £100m seeing as we haven't technically bought Lo Celso yet...either way ENIC's net spend has never been that high since 2008 when we were threatened by relegation.

ENIC broke our transfer record in 2018 by purchasing Sanchez for £41m,they broke it again this summer by purchasing Ndombele for £55m and it was a deal Levy got done early which is rare as he normally waits until the last minute to get deals done.

ENIC smashed the wage budget when they gave Kane £200k a week and Ndombele if reports are correct is on the same wage. There's also been reports of them offering both Tony and Eriksen similar contracts.

Never before in our history has ENIC paid a manager £15m a year, previous to Mourinho Poch was on £8.5m, what does that suggest to you?

The point I'm making is that you said that ENIC haven't changed their approach in 20 years, I've just given you 4 very recent examples which suggest they have, the fact is they are always changing their approach and improving it to bring it in line with the modern day, it might not be at the speed that you want it but nevertheless you can't argue with their behavior over the last few years has been beneficial for the club.

The problem is people want to ignore it because it doesn't fit with their anti ENIC agenda.

I've never been anti Enic until Poch was sacked. That was the realisation for me or at least his treatment over the last 3 or 4 windows and what drove a fiercely determined ambitious man to look totally demoralised by the whole thing.

yido_number1 · Nov 27, 2019

Graysonti said:
Bit dramatic mate - all running down their contracts and then ignoring some of our best players in Dele, Kane and Son in signing.

And YOU would have been the first to moan had we sold them all two years ago for big fees - damned either way.

Those players (Eriksen excluded) are all on the way down anyway and all of those players will play for smaller clubs when they leave. This is not a situation unique to Spurs but clubs in general.

My advice to you would stop wasting your time on Spurs and find a hobby that makes you happy. I expect you are one of those people that expect everything for nothing and moan about absolutely everything.

That is just a dumb thing to say off the back of one thread. Just because someone thinks we need a change at the top to make the next step doesn't mean they moan about everything. I'm completely the opposite when supporting spurs. If you take some time to actually look back over my posts you might notice that. Whilst others constantly slate players and managers I've been pretty consistent in backing them for improvement or suggesting conditions as to why they haven't been achieving.

It's not against forum policy to disagree and if you are so 100% certain that ENIC are the best people out there to run our club then provide some on the pitch supporting evidence as to why they are? We constantly hear punching above our weight based on wage bill, turnover, squad cost etc. I've reached a point with ENIC where I'd optimistically like an owner to come in that can actually help us take the next step and compete with Liverpool and City.

I'd like us to shake off the nearly men or also ran tag and take the next step. Maybe the stadium will change that, maybe it won't. Either way I personally feel Mourinho has a proven record of delivering trophies when backed. Levy has a track record of eventually falling out with managers that actually deliver on his brief and not backing them. See Jol, Redknapp and now Poch. Worth noting that Redknapp and Poch both got sacked after finishing in 4th place the previous year. Both managers were looking to kick on and both didn't get fully backed with what they wanted. Yes we spent good money this summer but we didn't ship out the players we wanted to or replace them. Poch continually said he wanted to clear out the squad and go again. IMHO this hangover of not doing that over the last 3 windows is why we are where we are.

Have we improved under previous managers? I'd say it is probably 50/50. Hoddle > Santini < Jol >Ramos < Redknapp >AVB < Poch. Let's see what Mourinho brings it's been a good start and I have been impressed with his attitude in the short time. He is a great salesman and he grows on you.

I guess to summarise I have always been happy with ENIC. We've improved all the facilities to get to where we are. We have built an impressive stadium that will help us to compete that bit more. My honest feeling is that the stadium is the pinnacle of ENIC's plans. To get to the next steps I think we need a change at the top just like a lot of people felt about Poch. I would have backed Poch but we didn't and on we go. I hope the club can push on to the top and win a league in my life time. What's certain is to do that we have to be better than UTD, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Football is now as much a financial competition as it is a sporting competition. If you don't sign the best players and managers you don't compete at a high level for a period of time. I'm yet to see a sign that we are capable of competing with City, Liverpool, Chelsea or UTD for the right players. Time will tell.

But please don't tar with me the negative Levy out at all costs team. I'm a wavering BSODL badly hurt by losing Poch and the lack of loyalty shown to him.

Shadydan · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
I've never been anti Enic until Poch was sacked. That was the realisation for me or at least his treatment over the last 3 or 4 windows and what drove a fiercely determined ambitious man to look totally demoralised by the whole thing.

Fine, I can see why it could leave a bitter taste in your mouth but the Poch sacking had to happen IMO and I love Poch.

At the end of the day this is just the natural evolution of Spurs, we've sacked Poch and we've moved onto Mourinho, whichever way you want to look at it it's a progressive move for the club.

Graysonti · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
I've never been anti Enic until Poch was sacked. That was the realisation for me or at least his treatment over the last 3 or 4 windows and what drove a fiercely determined ambitious man to look totally demoralised by the whole thing.

yido_number1 said:
That is just a dumb thing to say off the back of one thread. Just because someone thinks we need a change at the top to make the next step doesn't mean they moan about everything. I'm completely the opposite when supporting spurs. If you take some time to actually look back over my posts you might notice that. Whilst others constantly slate players and managers I've been pretty consistent in backing them for improvement or suggesting conditions as to why they haven't been achieving.

It's not against forum policy to disagree and if you are so 100% certain that ENIC are the best people out there to run our club then provide some on the pitch supporting evidence as to why they are? We constantly hear punching above our weight based on wage bill, turnover, squad cost etc. I've reached a point with ENIC where I'd optimistically like an owner to come in that can actually help us take the next step and compete with Liverpool and City.

I'd like us to shake off the nearly men or also ran tag and take the next step. Maybe the stadium will change that, maybe it won't. Either way I personally feel Mourinho has a proven record of delivering trophies when backed. Levy has a track record of eventually falling out with managers that actually deliver on his brief and not backing them. See Jol, Redknapp and now Poch. Worth noting that Redknapp and Poch both got sacked after finishing in 4th place the previous year. Both managers were looking to kick on and both didn't get fully backed with what they wanted. Yes we spent good money this summer but we didn't ship out the players we wanted to or replace them. Poch continually said he wanted to clear out the squad and go again. IMHO this hangover of not doing that over the last 3 windows is why we are where we are.

Have we improved under previous managers? I'd say it is probably 50/50. Hoddle > Santini < Jol >Ramos < Redknapp >AVB < Poch. Let's see what Mourinho brings it's been a good start and I have been impressed with his attitude in the short time. He is a great salesman and he grows on you.

I guess to summarise I have always been happy with ENIC. We've improved all the facilities to get to where we are. We have built an impressive stadium that will help us to compete that bit more. My honest feeling is that the stadium is the pinnacle of ENIC's plans. To get to the next steps I think we need a change at the top just like a lot of people felt about Poch. I would have backed Poch but we didn't and on we go. I hope the club can push on to the top and win a league in my life time. What's certain is to do that we have to be better than UTD, City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. Football is now as much a financial competition as it is a sporting competition. If you don't sign the best players and managers you don't compete at a high level for a period of time. I'm yet to see a sign that we are capable of competing with City, Liverpool, Chelsea or UTD for the right players. Time will tell.

But please don't tar with me the negative Levy out at all costs team. I'm a wavering BSODL badly hurt by losing Poch and the lack of loyalty shown to him.

I support Spurs not Poch - let’s be clear though - Poch was 100% given loyalty.

We had 10 months of bad football and bad results - with bizarre comments, contradictory comments and indeed flirting with other jobs. He totally lost the plot in the end - and all while getting paid £8.5m per year!

Anyway regardless, we will always love Poch And what he done for us.

Dillspur · Nov 27, 2019

Shadydan said:
Fine, I can see why it could leave a bitter taste in your mouth but the Poch sacking had to happen IMO and I love Poch.

At the end of the day this is just the natural evolution of Spurs, we've sacked Poch and we've moved onto Mourinho, whichever way you want to look at it it's a progressive move for the club.

I agree that (sadly) Poch had to go and if the ITK is correct he probably should have gone in the summer, but you have to look at the root cause, I remember ITK saying that the remit for Poch for the first 5 years while the stadium was near completion was to keep us in touch with the top 4. He massively overachieved, stayed loyal despite offers from Madrid and was probably tapped up at some point from UTD. I know there was a stadium delay which probably affected plans but he should have been properly backed in 2018, it's all opinions of course but (for me) that was the beginning of the end for Poch, maybe he has to shoulder some blame but Levy has to take most of it.

And what's frustrating is everyone bigging Levy up for showing ambition.

dontcallme · Nov 27, 2019

yido_number1 said:
As an isolated case you could agree with that. Factor in the other players we know we missed out on due to fucking about and you start to build a bigger picture.

Worth noting that the season Liverpool bought Mane they had £58m turnover higher than ours.

It is not unreasonable to believe that with that they might be in a position to offer higher salaries.

Nerine · Nov 27, 2019

Haven't read the thread other than a couple of posts here and there...

It all seems a bit distasteful to me, given what our owners and chairman have delivered over the last 6 years, and now with the appointment of one of the most successful managers in football history who we are paying the worlds second highest salary...

Yes, we probably should have won a couple of trophies in that time, but that's down to myriad factors.

I don't want the hierarchy to change. They've delivered world class facilities, probably literally some of the best in the world, kept us competitive (we don't know how hamstrung we were by the stadium build) and have planned everything to near perfection IMO. I feel like we are starting to see the final pieces of the puzzle begin to slot in.

Naming rights, investment in the squad, elite manager,

I think Levy has been masterful at how he's done it. I don't really know how he could have done it any better. The whole thing reeks of organisation, astute business acumen, sensible compromise, and ultimately delivery on all of it...

Forums

What's new

Matches

Sportsbook

Members

ENIC in or out?

ENIC in or out?

In

Out

He'll always be magic

Svensk hetsporre

SC Supporter

Well-Known Member

Svensk hetsporre

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

He'll always be magic

Well-Known Member

He'll always be magic

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

SC Supporter

He'll always be magic

He'll always be magic

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

SC Supporter

Juicy corned beef

Similar threads