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The Rugby Thread

teok

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Aug 11, 2011
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It wasn’t Walesonline. He’s got a column for the Irish independent.

Oh fair enough, I just glanced at the link preview thing. The "NZ are cheats" thing is as old as the hills. I swear they just rotate these story ideas. That is why I didn't actually read it.
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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Oh fair enough, I just glanced at the link preview thing. The "NZ are cheats" thing is as old as the hills. I swear they just rotate these story ideas. That is why I didn't actually read it.

Your original statement wasn’t far off though, tbf.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
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It wasn’t Walesonline. He’s got a column for the Irish independent.

They did just pick it up and post it without any hint of independent review though.#

I'm assuming Wales Online is a bit like the Metro Online in the way they 'report' things.

Anyway...daft article.
 

teok

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
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8. France

Reasons to be cheerful


A free-flowing first half against Argentina, plus the Camille Lopez drop-goal that salvaged their second-half implosion, ultimately secured France’s passage to the last eight. When they blow hot, which is mainly in fractured situations as their offloading and support play create space for intrepid attackers such as Maxime Médard, Damian Penaud and Alivereti Raka, Les Bleus are capable of carving apart most opponents. Young back-rower Grégory Alddritt, a skilful link man, continues to shine. Charles Ollivon is tough and resourceful. France’s disruptive defence also deserves praise. From Jefferson Poirot in the front row to tireless Wenceslas Lauret via lock Sébastien Vahaamahina, many of their forwards pose a jackalling threat.

Reasons to be fearful

Given their 2011 campaign defied a full-scale mutiny for France to reach the final, it is hard to know how to react to rumours of a division between captain Guilhem Guirado and the coaches. And why was full-back Thomas Ramos sent home if he was fit enough to play for Toulouse this weekend? Will any friction make France even less cohesive or bind them tighter together? Either way, their game management has to be better to avoid bitty displays and concentration lapses. Tonga and, to a lesser extent, USA troubled them. Understandably, because of his tender age and the time he has spent at centre on club duty, Romain Ntamack is not yet able to control matches as well as other elite fly-halves.

Star man

Antoine Dupont, France’s explosive scrum-half, is a menace that fringe defenders have to respect.


7. Australia

Reasons to be cheerful


Australia pieced together a Jekyll-and-Hyde quartet of pool games that contained two excellent halves. The second 40 minutes of their matches against Fiji and Wales were full of incisive carrying, crisp ball movement and muscular set-piece work – precisely the sort of assured rugby that characterised their 47-26 thrashing of New Zealand in August. They have a legitimate claim to being the tournament’s in-form scrummagers, too. Brumbies props Allan Alaalatoa and Scott Sio have continued their progress and enhanced reputations. As for the backline, tackle-buster Samu Kerevi began brilliantly and Dane Haylett-Petty has caused problems constantly. In 19 year-old Jordan Petaia, they possess an interesting wildcard.

Reasons to be fearful

Reece Hodge’s ban foreshadowed three more yellow cards for reckless collisions – two for high-tackles against Uruguay and another following Isi Naisarani’s clear-out against Georgia. Michael Cheika might not agree with the new refereeing guidelines, but his players must obey them. A spinning selection merry-go-round at half-back does not seem to be helping Australia’s fluency. Unless it was a deliberate ploy to keep their cards close to their chest, the route-one policy against Georgia – the Wallabies kicked just 10 times despite the sodden conditions – illustrated a worrying lack of variety.

Star man

David Pocock relishes World Cups, as the 2011 and 2015 versions underlined. Ominously for the Wallabies’ rivals, he is nearing those levels.


6. Ireland

Reasons to be cheerful


Joe Schmidt’s side book-ended their pool stage with a pair of authoritative victories over Scotland and Samoa. Such performances showcased the precise, ultra-disciplined approach that underpinned a glorious 2018 – and made the loss to Japan look like an aberration. Conor Murray fed his forwards and punchy, patient phase-play won out. Robbie Henshaw, who scored the match-winning try in Chicago, is back fit and Johnny Sexton has come through the group matches. Tadhg Furlong’s charging carries against Samoa reprised fond memories, as well. Meanwhile, when Rory Best’s throwing comes good, Ireland’s mauling has been potent. After beating them twice in the past three years, they will not fear New Zealand.

Reasons to be fearful

Bundee Aki is likely to be suspended following his red card in Fukuoka, depriving Ireland of midfield dynamism. Even though all other 31 players are available, including Garry Ringrose and Chris Farrell, it is a blow. Japan out-manoeuvred Ireland, scrambling their senses with rapid ruck-speed and standing up to some rather predictable attack. Then the hangover continued into a pretty underwhelming game against Russia that was littered with handling errors. In those two matches, they resembled a team past their prime and struggling for a spark – not ideal for a team that has never won a World Cup knockout tie.

Star man

The pivotal importance of Sexton is nothing new. With him on the field, Ireland are far slicker and more confident.


5. Japan

Reasons to be cheerful


The quick, disciplined phase-play that charmed so many neutrals four years ago has become even faster and more assured. Zig-zagging from ruck to ruck, superb scrum-half Yakuta Nagare has directed proceedings and the Brave Blossoms boast playmakers everywhere. From hooker Shota Horie to centre Timothy Lafaele, they boast a host of individuals capable of throwing game-breaking passes. The series of offloads that led to Kieta Inagaki’s try against Scotland was phenomenal. In Kotaro Matsushima and Kenki Fukuoka, Japan also possess two lightning, predatory wings who hunt touches all around the field. The squad’s obvious togetherness is manifested in determined defence. Back-rowers Michael Leitch and Kazuki Himeno – two exceptional, all-round players – lead the way in that regard. Finally, their set-piece efficiency and technical prowess makes up for a lack of heft.

Reasons to be fearful

A quarter-final against South Africa represents a re-run of the 2015 Brighton Miracle, but it is also worth bearing in mind that the Springboks registered a 41-7 win over Japan just last month. They pressurised the Brave Blossoms with towering kicks and feasted on turnovers to score six tries.

Star man

It is so difficult to pick out a single player from team that is worth more than the sum of its parts, although Fukuoka is a fantastic, unconventional talent and Nagare knits everything together.
 

teok

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
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4. England
Reasons to be cheerful

You can only beat what is put in front of you, and England have not afforded anyone a sniff. Clearly, they have faced limited opposition. Still, in conceding merely 20 points and only two tries over three matches, they have stuck to a gameplan designed for the humidity. Their varied kicking, with the left boot of full-back Elliot Daly prominent, has controlled territory. Joe Marler, Maro Itoje, Sam Underhill and Tom Curry have harried and harassed, forcing errors and earning turnovers with beefy tackling. Lewis Ludlam is proving to be a canny pick. Solid scrummaging and a polished lineout operation, with well-coordinated mauling, have given them a robust platform and George Ford is pulling strings nicely.
Reasons to be fearful
Ball retention has not been perfect and, to borrow a label from England attack coach Scott Wisemantel, skipper Owen Farrell has been “clunky” – not disastrous by any stretch, but certainly below his best. Billy Vunipola also looks slightly subdued and Ben Youngs’ box-kicking cannot be as erratic against better sides.
England are yet to be tested. They will need to move the ball more accurately and cut out frustrating knock-ons to continue to score tries. Does Eddie Jones bank on a midfield of Ford, Farrell and Manu Tuilagi? We are about to find out.
Star man
Itoje has been extremely good, with Underhill not far behind.
3. Wales
Reasons to be cheerful

Ignoring the warm-up internationals, Wales are now on a run of 18 successive victories. That winning habit came in handy against Australia and Fiji during the pool stages, because Warren Gatland’s side were severely tested. Fortunately for them, their fitness reserves run deep and their collective resolve is seriously strong. As with South Africa and England, Wales tend to kick long and trust their disciplined yet aggressive defence to suffocate opponents. They out-work teams and break their will, leaning on an experienced group of leaders. Captain Alun Wyn Jones keeps fighting. Justin Tipuric has been freed up by grafting back-rowers around him. Dan Biggar’s game management from fly-half is canny and centre Jonathan Davies, a gnarled defensive general in midfield, is still capable of barnstorming breaks. Liam Williams’ counter-attacking stirs teammates.
Reasons to be fearful
Despite flashes of quality in the early stages against Australia, Wales’ ball movement has been awkward. Numerous passes have sailed behind runners, stalling momentum. The scrum has creaked, too. Jonathan Davies’ knee injury and a pair of concussions for Biggar must be concerning.
Star man
Josh Navidi was conspicuous by his absence in the disjointed triumph over Uruguay. The dread-locked back-rower is so consistent and dogged.
2. South Africa
Reasons to be cheerful

A pragmatic template based on clever tactical kicking, hard chasing, Jacques Nienaber’s rush defence and swarming breakdown play seems in good order. South Africa’s imposing forwards, led by Pieter-Steph du Toit and Duane Vermeulen, are not easy to nullify. RG Snyman, just one of their towering locks, was simply formidable against Canada. Lood de Jager toyed with Namibia as well. Behind the pack, there is even more power and plenty of pace. Fast-twitch scrum-half Cobus Reinach must be putting pressure on the first-choice duo of Faf de Klerk and Hershel Jantjies, while wing Cheslin Kolbe should recover from an ankle complaint to appear in the knockout stages. The Toulouse wing, a hot-stepper capable of igniting an opening out of very little, has been wonderful to watch.
Reasons to be fearful
It took Andrea Lovotti’s brainless red card for South Africa to pull away from Italy and they ended up with just a single try to show for a great deal of territorial pressure against New Zealand. Their scrum crumbled late in that opening game after the All Blacks had exploited the positional uncertainty of Makazole Mapimpi. Rassie Erasmus was left to rue indiscipline as his team conceded nine penalties.
Star man
Marauding back-rower Du Toit justifies a mention but electric wing Kolbe is embarrassing defenders with every touch.
1. New Zealand
Reasons to be cheerful
A 23-13 victory over South Africa, and more pertinently a four-minute blitz yielding 17 points, effectively wrapped up Pool B. That short but sweet spell, comprising superb tries for George Bridge and Scott Barrett, represented the best passage of play from any side at the tournament to date…until Japan’s first half against Scotland on Sunday. New Zealand absorbed an aggressive opening from the Springboks before sensing blood and picking them apart. Their own defence, featuring Ardie Savea’s breakdown scavenging and some fine cover-tackles, then held firm. It was a problem-solving, streetwise display in Yokohama. Since then, during comfortable wins against Canada and Namibia, the All Blacks have challenged themselves to play expansively. Their aggregate tally of offloads in those two matches was 45. Chasing a third consecutive crown, head coach Steve Hansen is aiming to stay ahead of the curve.
Reasons to be fearful Yellow cards for props Nepo Laulala and Ofa Tu’ungafasi following high tackles against Namibia caused one to wonder whether New Zealand could be susceptible to a costlier discipline lapse down the line. South Africa troubled their lineout, too. The return of Brodie Retalick will bolster them there.
The only other concern is a straw-clutching one. Given the abandonment of their final pool match against Italy, might Hansen’s squad be under-cooked?
Star man
The playmaking double-act of Beauden Barrett and Richie Mo’unga has begun to tick and centre Anton Lienert-Brown is impressing. However, Ardie Savea’s all-round effort against the Springboks was special.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2011
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We do know, though. We hear every day from players and coaches about the dangers of a busy fixture list.

You’re not undercooked. 7 games in 2 months 4 and a half of those games against tier 1 sides. You’re not undercooked. Sorry.

If you lose it won’t be because you’re undercooked. I think this was going to be a close game but now you’ll win this comfortably by 15 points. If you don’t it’s because you’ve bottled it.

I think you would do well to read the comments from Matt Dawson:

“I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little bit of raw emotion coming out in the players during the win over Scotland, and perhaps individually they were hurt by a lot of the media coverage this week. The focus all of a sudden was whether the tournament would be remembered for the games that were cancelled. I found it insane that people were trying to belittle the enormity of what was going on. The reality is people have unfortunately died and been injured in a natural disaster and that takes precedence over any kind of sport or game. It's a game of rugby, get over yourselves and focus on what's important.”

Reports are that it’s the worst typhoon for 60 years so hardly something organiser could have planned for even though the tournament is during the typhoon season. What makes me laugh even more is that it hasn’t even changed the outcome of who qualifies for the quarter finals – you’re whining like hell just about a team getting more rest.
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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I think you would do well to read the comments from Matt Dawson:

“I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little bit of raw emotion coming out in the players during the win over Scotland, and perhaps individually they were hurt by a lot of the media coverage this week. The focus all of a sudden was whether the tournament would be remembered for the games that were cancelled. I found it insane that people were trying to belittle the enormity of what was going on. The reality is people have unfortunately died and been injured in a natural disaster and that takes precedence over any kind of sport or game. It's a game of rugby, get over yourselves and focus on what's important.”

Reports are that it’s the worst typhoon for 60 years so hardly something organiser could have planned for even though the tournament is during the typhoon season. What makes me laugh even more is that it hasn’t even changed the outcome of who qualifies for the quarter finals – you’re whining like hell just about a team getting more rest.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that a few games of rugby is more important than peoples lives that’s why people were asking why couldn’t these games be played behind closed doors in another location. The contingency plans could’ve been better. Also the fact, that as far as I’ve seen, no reason has been given as to why these games couldn’t have been played behind closed doors.

I also think that you’re naive if you think that these games wouldn’t have been rescheduled/ played behind closed doors if NZ or England needed the points to qualify. Do you really think World Rugby would treat England and NZ the same way they’ve treated Italy? Perhaps I’m to cynical?

So yes, obviously peoples lives are more important but you have to look at the contingency planning seeing as world rugby knew this WC was being played during Typhoon season.

You say it didn’t effect who qualified but you’re missing the point. Firstly you don’t know that anyway especially seeing as this is the red card World Cup. But at the very least it would’ve effected who qualified in what position but the other is that for the first time in history the WC is not a level playing field. That’s just a sad fact. Ultimately you have to question whether having it in Japan at this time was the right call as it was always a bit of a gamble.
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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I don’t think anyone is suggesting that a few games of rugby is more important than peoples lives that’s why people were asking why couldn’t these games be played behind closed doors in another location. The contingency plans could’ve been better. Also the fact, that as far as I’ve seen, no reason has been given as to why these games couldn’t have been played behind closed doors.

I also think that you’re naive if you think that these games wouldn’t have been rescheduled/ played behind closed doors if NZ or England needed the points to qualify. Do you really think World Rugby would treat England and NZ the same way they’ve treated Italy? Perhaps I’m to cynical?

So yes, obviously peoples lives are more important but you have to look at the contingency planning seeing as world rugby knew this WC was being played during Typhoon season.

You say it didn’t effect who qualified but you’re missing the point. Firstly you don’t know that anyway especially seeing as this is the red card World Cup. But at the very least it would’ve effected who qualified in what position but the other is that for the first time in history the WC is not a level playing field. That’s just a sad fact. Ultimately you have to question whether having it in Japan at this time was the right call as it was always a bit of a gamble.

You really are massively overplaying the fact that it's 'not a level playing field'.
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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You really are massively overplaying the fact that it's 'not a level playing field'.

It’s not though. That can’t be argued. Obviously to what degree it’s not level is debatable but a scenario where say SA play NZ or Wales play England in a final knowing that in both of those scenarios 1 team had played a game more than the other is not fair or equal. Especially at the end of the tournament when everyone is knackered.

I think it was Schmidt who said it would’ve been fairer if everyone’s last game was cancelled. At least that way it would’ve been more even.
 

Arnoldtoo

The thinking ape's ape
May 18, 2006
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Michael Aylwin in the Grauniad going for:

Australia, Ireland, Wales & South Africa.

Hmm.
 

teok

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
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Both the wal/fra and aus/eng are coin flips in my opinion. NZ and sa should go through but no guarantees. SA seem to hard counter the japanese style as shown in that pre tournament game.
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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It’s not though. That can’t be argued. Obviously to what degree it’s not level is debatable but a scenario where say SA play NZ or Wales play England in a final knowing that in both of those scenarios 1 team had played a game more than the other is not fair or equal. Especially at the end of the tournament when everyone is knackered.

I think it was Schmidt who said it would’ve been fairer if everyone’s last game was cancelled. At least that way it would’ve been more even.

It's a nonsense expecting a completely 'level playing ground' regardless of typhoon preparations.

The groups aren't level.

Teams travel from different distances.

There's different funding.

etc etc etc.

The six nations operates on a 'non-level playing ground' EVERY year due to the home and away situation.

Japan have very much created a non-level playing ground by being hosts...those dastardly swine.

Each team will have had at least a week off by the time of the Quarter Finals. Most of Wales' team will have had the best part of 11 days off by the time they get to that match.

Anyone using it as an excuse come the end of the tournament is really clutching at straws IMO.
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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Michael Aylwin in the Grauniad going for:

Australia, Ireland, Wales & South Africa.

Hmm.

Certainly an argument for Australia beating England, and I agree on Wales and South Africa. Not quite sure on what grounds he thinks Ireland will beat NZ though. Would certainly make the tournament more interesting!
 

Arnoldtoo

The thinking ape's ape
May 18, 2006
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Certainly an argument for Australia beating England, and I agree on Wales and South Africa. Not quite sure on what grounds he thinks Ireland will beat NZ though. Would certainly make the tournament more interesting!

And nerve-wracking.

Unless he's right about Australia as well, in which case I don't care, so there*.

*Actually that's a fib; I'd support Ireland.
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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It's a nonsense expecting a completely 'level playing ground' regardless of typhoon preparations.

The groups aren't level.

Teams travel from different distances.

There's different funding.

etc etc etc.

The six nations operates on a 'non-level playing ground' EVERY year due to the home and away situation.

Japan have very much created a non-level playing ground by being hosts...those dastardly swine.

Each team will have had at least a week off by the time of the Quarter Finals. Most of Wales' team will have had the best part of 11 days off by the time they get to that match.

Anyone using it as an excuse come the end of the tournament is really clutching at straws IMO.

I thought Arnold was meant to be the pedantic one. Come on mate, you know what I’m talking about but, yeah, I should’ve said not a level playing field with regards to games played which then rolls onto rest, injury exposure and prep and training time. All of those things have always been equal. Apart from host nations tend to get more favourable rest time between games but every World Cup has had everyone playing the same amount of games.

No WC has ever been played on the moon as far as I’m aware so there’s always a host. I’m obviously not moaning about England being the richest rugby nation on the planet, that would be silly as it would be silly to make the point that some teams are better than others, that’s sport, that’s why you want the key things, like number of games played, to be the same for everyone. But yeah, like I said, I should’ve said not a level playing field with regards to games played, injury exposure, prep time and rest
 

Arnoldtoo

The thinking ape's ape
May 18, 2006
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I thought Arnold was meant to be the pedantic one. Come on mate, you know what I’m talking about but, yeah, I should’ve said not a level playing field with regards to games played which then rolls onto rest, injury exposure and prep and training time. All of those things have always been equal. Apart from host nations tend to get more favourable rest time between games but every World Cup has had everyone playing the same amount of games.

No WC has ever been played on the moon as far as I’m aware so there’s always a host. I’m obviously not moaning about England being the richest rugby nation on the planet, that would be silly as it would be silly to make the point that some teams are better than others, that’s sport, that’s why you want the key things, like number of games played, to be the same for everyone. But yeah, like I said, I should’ve said not a level playing field with regards to games played, injury exposure, prep time and rest

Oi!

Old people have feelings too, you know. :(
 

talkshowhost86

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Oct 2, 2004
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I thought Arnold was meant to be the pedantic one. Come on mate, you know what I’m talking about but, yeah, I should’ve said not a level playing field with regards to games played which then rolls onto rest, injury exposure and prep and training time. All of those things have always been equal. Apart from host nations tend to get more favourable rest time between games but every World Cup has had everyone playing the same amount of games.

No WC has ever been played on the moon as far as I’m aware so there’s always a host. I’m obviously not moaning about England being the richest rugby nation on the planet, that would be silly as it would be silly to make the point that some teams are better than others, that’s sport, that’s why you want the key things, like number of games played, to be the same for everyone. But yeah, like I said, I should’ve said not a level playing field with regards to games played, injury exposure, prep time and rest

The team that wins the World Cup will be the best team in the tournament.

Anyone who says otherwise is being a sore loser to be honest. You just don't normally see people be sore losers before they've lost!
 

E17yid

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Jan 21, 2013
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The team that wins the World Cup will be the best team in the tournament.

Anyone who says otherwise is being a sore loser to be honest. You just don't normally see people be sore losers before they've lost!

I would usually agree with that sentiment but I’m not so sure. If Australia beat you and NZ and go onto win I still wouldn’t necessarily think they’re the best team in the world but deserved winners, no doubt.

Look, mate, I’m not conceding anything. I think we’ve got a great chance of getting to a final, equally I wouldn’t be shocked if we went out the weekend, I’ll have to assess the manner of the defeat when/if it comes.

I think your point blank refusal to accept any kind of advantage to you, NZ and France is a tad disingenuous, though, as I think deep down, the reason you’re getting a bit prickly about it is you know it is an advantage.

I’ll tell you what; I’ll meet you half way, you admit it’s given you a slight advantage with regards to rest, prep and injuries and I’ll admit that perhaps I’ve been overstating the advantage.

Even old man Arnie has conceded that it’s gives you a slight edge.
 
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