The Diamond

fletch82 said:

Surely coal is quite useful ?

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Nick-TopSpursMan said:

Just posted this in the Poch thread but then saw this one, which is more appropriate:

So yesterday I went back and looked through most of our Premier League fixtures from last season.

He used it first against Utd at OT, with Dier DM. Now we won the match 3-0, we were unusually clinical and that probably made Poch think this is the system to use but I remember that game and we were not 3 goals better.

He then reverted back to our usual shape but went back to the diamond against Liverpool at home in mid September, which we lost 2-1. He reverted to 4-2-3-1 for the following game away to Brighton, which we won.

He brought back the diamond at home to Chelsea in late November. To me this is the only game where it really worked and biggest reason was we caught Chelsea off guard and swarmed Jorginho. We won 3-1 but should have won by more. Interesting to note that Dier was DM in this diamond so we had a bit more security about us, our diamond was Dier, Sissoko, Eriksen, Alli behind Kane and Son.

He then kept the diamond for following match, away to Scum. We lost 4-2 and to be blunt we got battered and didn't deserve anything despite leading at one point.

Didn't use the diamond again until away to Everton with no DM. We win 6-2. We were extremely clinical going forward but those who remember this game will know we went behind early and always looked vulnerable defensively. Luckily for us Everton were worse.

The first time he used the diamond against 'lesser' opponents was Wolves at home. He decided to use the diamond again with no DM. We lose 3-2 and get battered second half.

Also played the diamond at home to Man Utd and at half time we are losing 1-0, having played very poorly. We switch to 4-2-3-1 and proceed to dominate the second half but we can't find a goal and De Gea is unbelievable.

We used the diamond at home to Leicester, where we somehow beat them 3-1 despite them being superior to us.

A couple of games later we use the diamond again, this time away to Saints. We lose 2-1.

Away to Pool we use 3 atb and change it up at halftime to the diamond but we still lose 2-1.

The next time we use the diamond is at home to West Ham and we lose 1-0.

We used the diamond at home to Villa this season. We were losing until we changed to 4-2-3-1 at half time which brought about our comeback.


There is a clear correlation when looking at our bad form over the past 10/11 months and its ever since we stopped consistently playing our balanced 4-2-3-1 and started playing this diamond (or 3 atb which no longer works for us either).

As far as I could see, the only clean sheet we have kept with the diamond was the very first time we used it, away at OT.

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OPModric said:

I think Brazil won the world cup 1994 with a diamond midfield. Ancelottis Milan with Pirlo gattuso, seedorf and rui Costa won CL.

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DEFchenkOE said:

Brazil played 4-2-2-2 with 2 of the most robust defensive midfielders ever in Dunga and Mauro Silva. Equivalent for us would be playing Dier and Wanyama. Still a lot of pressure on the full backs either way

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punkisback said:

IT was different back then, far less marauding full backs! I believe you need two sets of wide players nowadays or at least 2 attackers who drop to cover the full backs.

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DEFchenkOE said:

Top work!

We also used it in the CL final and that was a big mistake for me as we looked completely blunt. So easy to switch the play against the diamond and create one on one's in wide areas. A wingers dream is to play against a diamond formation.

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Goobers said:

I under stand changing systems - the 4-2-3-1 is losing favour as teams are getting better at defending against one up front front players going deep. I would have thought we would go for a 4-3-3 type formation but that isn't the case. Whenever you change systems I think there is a painful transition at times but I don't believe the current squad lends itself to a diamond particularly and that, for me, is the worry.

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punkisback said:

433 is the way to go. But you need 3 solid CMS which we have as a 3 and two ace wide players. We would need one more player on sons level.

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DEFchenkOE said:

Agree, but Poch seems averse to playing one wide player let alone two ?

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fishhhandaricecake said:

We didn’t play the diamond in the CL final we played 4-2-3-1. I was there and can assure you of that as I was there in the stadium in the top row so had a perfect tactical view. We actually played fine in the final and deserved to at least draw, we just got unlucky with the early penalty and it played into Liverpool’s hands. We also should’ve started Lucas and sissoko and winks as the 2 CM’s doesn’t have enough creativity or defensive balance, those 2 are a big downgrade on peak wanyama/dier and dembele. If we’d had ndombele for that game and started Lucas I think we’d probably have at least drawn and possibly won it.

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fishhhandaricecake said:

I miss wingers. We’ve had some incredible ones over the years but now our only ‘ winger’ son is being played up front. Hopefully next manager is keen to get wingers back into our play, much more exciting.

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'O Zio said:

There's a reason nobody plays wingers nowadays. All the top teams use the fullbacks to provide width because you can then create overloads against the defence, forcing them to choose between which of 2 players to defend, which theoretically leaves the other player open. If you played traditional wingers you'd basically have to play an old-fashioned 4-4-2 which would be too easy to defend against.

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DEFchenkOE said:

Don't you class Gnabry/Coman/Mane/Salah/Sterling/Sane/Mahrez as wingers? Not in the old school getting to the byline and crossing it sense. But they are modern wingers, or wide forwards if you like.

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TEESSIDE1 said:

It was amazing how with 4 central midfielders playing the Diamond amounted to having no central midfield against Bayern after 35 mins or so.... for a manager who demands high fitness levels, burning out your entire central midfield in the 1st half is ludicrous.

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'O Zio said:

There's a reason nobody plays wingers nowadays. All the top teams use the fullbacks to provide width because you can then create overloads against the defence, forcing them to choose between which of 2 players to defend, which theoretically leaves the other player open. If you played traditional wingers you'd basically have to play an old-fashioned 4-4-2 which would be too easy to defend against.

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'O Zio said:

The post I was replying to was talking about traditional wingers like every team used to have in the PL, you've just admitted that those players aren't/don't play in a system where they are used as traditional wingers, so I'm not really sure what your point is.

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