What's new

The Mauricio Pochettino thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

g_harry

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2005
2,909
4,574
Just a thought. Did Poch 'play along' with all the madrid & utd rumours as he was using it to pressure Levy into backing him.also being stubborn and persisting with a formation maybe to spite Levy as he didnt get the players he wanted.
 

dimiSpur

There's always next year...
Aug 9, 2008
5,844
6,750
I would hope we see us revert back to the 4-2-3-1. It's a better formation than either 3 at the back or the horrendous diamond. Perhaps one day it could serve us well. Maybe whatever it is Poch sees in the diamond can be realised. But not now. We need better personnel (i.e. the full backs) and better fitness levels. If we cannot play the system as it's meant to be played (assuming there is a better way for it to be played) then we shouldn't be playing it full stop.

We have an average back four nowadays, they cannot be exposed by an inexistent midfield. We need bodies in CM.

I am sure Poch will realise this and fix it for Saturday.
 

Matthew

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2012
4,597
15,867
Quite simply - fuck this dressing room and all the self-serving twats in it, then. Sack off all those not committed, put in Lo Celso, Sess, Skipp, Tanganga, and others, and let’s get through this season and tear it up and start again.

I don’t want this club to be like Chelsea where players just turn on a manager at the drop of the hat.

agree to an extent, but poch has brought a few of these issues on himself, especially on the eve on the biggest game in our recent history.
 

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
5,622
17,169
Did we use a different system when we played Palace? It's the only game that I can think of when we looked comfortable.

Yes we did, we lined up with:

Lloris
Aurier - Toby - Verts - Rose
Sissoko - Winks
Lamela - Eriksen - Son
Kane​

Not a surprise that when we play our best formation that suits our players we look a better side.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Jan 28, 2011
5,314
11,048
He obviously saw signs that his players were buying into it though, our players are publicly criticising Poch for persisting with it.

Hence why I am not buying into it and want it changed. You asked a simple question, I gave an answer, Klopp persisted with tactics that weren't working for a long time.

I want Poch to stop being stubborn and change things up.
 

dondo

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2006
8,603
14,091
The thing I really don't understand is that it should never of got this far.

Why has Poch persisted with something that all the players and fans can see that isn't right, for so long.

You have to be able to step back and evaluate objectively sometimes, and for some reason Poch hasn't done this - yet.

But worrying it's come to this and it still remains to be seen if he will change it.

Personally, I think this Saturday will tell us everything. How we set up and the performance even more important than the result if we're looking ahead at the long term.


It’s Pochettino’s main weakness imo, the inability to change. Often it’s quite obvious that tactics or personal needs changing and he generally waits too long.
There was a bit in his book where he said something along the lines off “if you need to make changes in the 1st half or half time, how bad did you get it at the start”. I think that mentality is arrogant as even the best make mistakes, it’s about limiting them and admitting you were wrong and changing things sometimes.
I really hope he goes bad to his ethos and settles on the original 4231 system and picks a more settled line up because he hasn’t become a bad manager overnight
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
4,000
18,942
What I don't get is why on Earth did Poch move away from the 4-2-3-1?!!

We were solid, consistent, played good football a lot of the time and performed brilliantly in the league over 3 seasons using it.

You have to wonder what was going through his head to change something which has been so successful for you and has given your squad consistency. Everyone knew their roles, it was very well balanced and it even got us results when we were underpar, which is a huge thing.

I literally pray every week that he realises he's made a massive mistake and reverts to the 4-2-3-1 with a DM alongside 1 of Ndombele, Winks or Sissoko.

Can't believe he's lost the plot tactically like this, he isn't a stupid man!
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,351
38,294
Yes we did, we lined up with:

Lloris
Aurier - Toby - Verts - Rose
Sissoko - Winks
Lamela - Eriksen - Son
Kane​

Not a surprise that when we play our best formation that suits our players we look a better side.
That's so frustrating.
 

Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,926
8,490
Yes we did, we lined up with:

Lloris
Aurier - Toby - Verts - Rose
Sissoko - Winks
Lamela - Eriksen - Son
Kane​

Not a surprise that when we play our best formation that suits our players we look a better side.

I just think that our midfield screams for more defensive nous. Ndombele gets a decent amount of tackles and interceptions, whereas Winks and Sissoko just doesn't. I'd still say our best bet for fixing our issues would be to play Dier+Ndombele+Winks/Eriksen/Alli + a front three of Lamela, Kane and Son.

And in terms of balance, it should probably be Eriksen or Alli rather than Winks in midfield due to attacking output. But it increasingly looks like Winks and Sissoko plays no matter what. Which is a problem. THE problem, imo.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,904
78,638
What I don't get is why on Earth did Poch move away from the 4-2-3-1?!!

We were solid, consistent, played good football a lot of the time and performed brilliantly in the league over 3 seasons using it.

You have to wonder what was going through his head to change something which has been so successful for you and has given your squad consistency. Everyone knew their roles, it was very well balanced and it even got us results when we were underpar, which is a huge thing.

I literally pray every week that he realises he's made a massive mistake and reverts to the 4-2-3-1 with a DM alongside 1 of Ndombele, Winks or Sissoko.

Can't believe he's lost the plot tactically like this, he isn't a stupid man!
I think he changed it as we came unstuck in a few games where teams got 11 behind the ball and Dier/Wanyama were a bit redundant.

Then we signed Sanchez, who Poch needed to shoehorn in so we went with 3 cbs. Then Dembele's decline rapidly sped up so he needed to change it up.

I can't remember for sure but didn't the diamond appear in February when we had so many injuries? He may have been forced into it? But kept persisting with it thinking it was a good idea? I can't remember when it first started appearing.

Also, remember end of 16/17 season and Poch said we needed to change? I thought at the time it was a little bizarre as I felt all we needed was better options off the bench and our style of play had been defined.
 

midoshairband

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2006
6,947
13,636
That's so frustrating.

i sometimes wonder with him, in formations/subs/selections, if he does things as he wants people to believe he’s some sort of tactical genius when he isn’t. there’s nothing wrong with having a style and not moving away from it. yes the players might change, but the system and set up doesn’t necessarily need to. especially when it was becoming relatively successful.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,351
38,294
i sometimes wonder with him, in formations/subs/selections, if he does things as he wants people to believe he’s some sort of tactical genius when he isn’t. there’s nothing wrong with having a style and not moving away from it. yes the players might change, but the system and set up doesn’t necessarily need to. especially when it was becoming relatively successful.
It is certainly important to have a flexible approach. I've wondered before whether his reluctance to make subs is because he doesn't like to acknowledge that his starting lineup didn't work but that is maybe a stretch. I really hope that he stays but as you and many others have said, he needs to acknowledge that the current system isn't working and make changes. Clearly there isn't just one issue at hand: there is the contract issue with some players and the defensive problems but he can control the tactics.
 

pablo73

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
3,978
13,596
Reading between the lines and I could of course be wrong here, but it's starting to look like Poch wants out but doesn't want to be the one to throw in the towel and lose his pay off. Equally Levy is very reluctant to sack him because of that huge pay off so we could be stuck in limbo indefinitely with a manager and several players that don't want to be here. Happy days.
 

dondo

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2006
8,603
14,091
What I don't get is why on Earth did Poch move away from the 4-2-3-1?!!

We were solid, consistent, played good football a lot of the time and performed brilliantly in the league over 3 seasons using it.

You have to wonder what was going through his head to change something which has been so successful for you and has given your squad consistency. Everyone knew their roles, it was very well balanced and it even got us results when we were underpar, which is a huge thing.

I literally pray every week that he realises he's made a massive mistake and reverts to the 4-2-3-1 with a DM alongside 1 of Ndombele, Winks or Sissoko.

Can't believe he's lost the plot tactically like this, he isn't a stupid man!


I would play Ndombele in a more advanced role for the time being in front of Dier and sissoko/winks
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
The question was would Klopp persist with something that didn't work.

The answer was yes, he did, for a while. Until he changed it.

I'm not advocating for the diamond. I want Poch to change it.

Klopp adapts, that's a difference.

Apparently Liverpool had major problems with possession from throw-ins. Klopp then went and got a coach to sort it out and now they are best in the league at retaining possession after throw-ins. It's a small detail, but it shows the mindset.
 

pablo73

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
3,978
13,596
It is certainly important to have a flexible approach. I've wondered before whether his reluctance to make subs is because he doesn't like to acknowledge that his starting lineup didn't work but that is maybe a stretch. I really hope that he stays but as you and many others have said, he needs to acknowledge that the current system isn't working and make changes. Clearly there isn't just one issue at hand: there is the contract issue with some players and the defensive problems but he can control the tactics.

I've often wondered that about his reluctance to make early subs being an admission of getting it wrong initially. If that is the case, it's more evidence that he is extremely stubborn which is really not a great trait when things are going wrong.
 

Cheltenham Spur

Re mem mem remember member
Aug 23, 2012
1,018
3,700
I think he changed it as we came unstuck in a few games where teams got 11 behind the ball and Dier/Wanyama were a bit redundant.

This is a really good point and hits the nail on the head.

For me the issue can be resolved by adjusting the personnel within the system. So if you're away at City or Liverpool you go with a couple of destroyers in the 2. Looking at the current squad say Dier and Wanyama (for the purposes of this post I'll pretend he hasn't regressed).

Then if you're playing a bus parker at home you could go with say Winks and Dele. That way the formation stays the same but the players in it change according to the needs of the match you're playing.

Surely this is easier than changing the formation completely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top