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Poch: In or Out? - You CAN change your vote

Should Poch stay or go?

  • Stay

    Votes: 657 55.3%
  • Go

    Votes: 532 44.7%

  • Total voters
    1,189

freeeki

Arsehole.
Aug 5, 2008
11,836
69,426
What is the point of this thread. Something is wrong. It is the fact we have not invested in new full backs. Poch's diamond only work when you have capable full backs. Aurier is not that. Rose is getting old and never was a great crosser of the ball.

You know the diamond isn't mandatory, right? It's Poch's choice to keep using it.
 

olliec

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2012
3,574
11,763
In only if his heart is still in it and wants to rebuild otherwise if he’s had enough than out.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
There are 2 out of work managers straight away that have actually won things at multiple clubs in Allegri and Mourinho. Do you really think that if Poch went we'd be up shit creek unable to attract a manager? Par for this squad should be third place, any competent manager would get CL pretty easily with these players IMO.

Laurent Blanc could also be in the mix.
 

mike_l

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2005
5,171
3,676
The sheer fact that we have completely over achieved in the last 5 years.
We've over achieved in terms of spend vs on pitch performance, that's a credit to Levy not Poch, unless you look at our squad and think it's full of third rate players being made to look good by Poch?

We've pretty much had one of the 3 best squads in the country for the last 4 years or so, and it's won not a single thing.
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
The sheer fact that we have completely over achieved in the last 5 years.

Yeah, it's such a pain in the arse squeezing all the trophies we didn't anticipate winning into the cabinet. All the neck injuries from our players wearing all the medals they've taken home couldn't have been accounted for.


(I'm not "Poch Out" - but he needs to get his head out of his arse.)
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
7,717
I think "just getting someone else in" runs the risk of losing the stability that we have enjoyed with Poch at the helm for 5-6 years. Do we really want to become Chelsea - changing the manager every year until you run out of 'Ancelottis' and end up employing Frank Lampard?

Poch is Spurs.

As we've seen last year - it's not about how many matches you lose - it's about how many you win to finish in the top 4. There's still plenty of time this season to turn it around.

Hell, he's barely had a crack at using his summer transfer players.

I agree the diamond isn't working, but I'm not ready to throw him out with the bathwater.

#PochIN
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
The thing is the team is stale, we all knew it and we all know it to be true this season too. Should the players be doing better? damn straight and Poch is partly to blame but he deserves a chance to turn it around because we know what he is capable of. Levy is also to blame and as much as he had his hands full with the stadium i think he took his eye off the ball on the pitch.

For what its worth, I have a feeling this will only end one way and thats him leaving taking some time out and potentially revising his approach and methods, a bit like what Brendan Rodgers has done previously. We should have been progressing as much as Liverpool have - we started ahead of them. They are the benchmark for us when only a couple of years back we were the benchmark for them - how times have changed.

If he leaves, Man U hire him the next day. That’s a problem for us. Although if he’s struggled to work with levy at times then he’s not going to like Woodward buying the players for him.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
I think "just getting someone else in" runs the risk of losing the stability that we have enjoyed with Poch at the helm for 5-6 years. Do we really want to become Chelsea - changing the manager every year until you run out of 'Ancelottis' and end up employing Frank Lampard?

Poch is Spurs.

As we've seen last year - it's not about how many matches you lose - it's about how many you win to finish in the top 4. There's still plenty of time this season to turn it around.

Hell, he's barely had a crack at using his summer transfer players.

I agree the diamond isn't working, but I'm not ready to throw him out with the bathwater.

#PochIN

Sustainable mindset right there.
 

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
Tranmere don't play against Bayern Munich.

It was a freak game where everything Bayern did came off perfectly. We dominated for the first half an hour, then the frailties in the squad started to show. Combine that with Bayern's performance of a decade, and you can get a crazy result.

If we'd drawn the game last night, would there be a poll about 'Poch Out?' Would as many people have voted 'yes'?

Whenever sentiment can change from one extreme to the other on one single result, it's probably not a well thought through reaction.

The players are lacking confidence, there's uncertainty over the futures of a few starters, we didn't invest enough, and we need to try and rectify the squad problems in the next window. Until then, assuming we don't ship 4+ goals regularly, getting rid of Poch isn't going to help the club. Patience, and showing some loyalty is probably the best scenario right now.
a couple of quick points:

The poll isn’t ‘Poch Out’ - I was very careful about that - I didn’t say ‘should Poch go or not’, I said ‘should he stay or go’ - and that’s an important distinction. The poll is to see what our little subset of fans thinks about the manager’s position, not whether they think the manager should be sacked.

If you look through a few threads, you’ll see the idea of polling SC to see what the mood is has actually been posited by a number of people quite a bit and I considered doing one over a week ago, after the Leicester game, but held off.

As for the number of people who voted for Poch to go after last night’s result, if you think about it, that’s not unexpected. We all decide whether we think a manager or a player is good enough based on results and performances.

However, the idea that an entire group of people suddenly decided off the back of a single terrible result that they no longer have faith in Poch is very firmly debunked after a quick trawl through the forum - there have been some vociferous voices calling for his departure, some less certain voices, and likewise vociferous voices wanting him to stay alongside less certain ones.

Those calling for Poch to go are not knee-jerking. The malaise at the club has been going on for a long period - there isn’t a single voice, stay or go, that will deny that. That particular accusation has to stop not just because it’s invalid, but because it’s immediately puts people on the defensive which damages the debate. If there were people on the fence before or firmly in the stay group who then changed their mind after last night, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that: as the saying goes: ‘a wise man changes his mind; a fool, never’.

I myself am undecided but lean towards stay, purely because I’m very conservative when it comes to management changes and I don’t have enough information to decide whether Poch is the right person to stop the rot. That, for me, is the issue - can he change things. If he can’t, then for all the love and appreciation I have for what he’s done for this club, my first loyalty, to use your own word, is to Spurs, not Pochettino.
 

Eddy4956

Member
Aug 20, 2013
15
30
We have a back 4 all of whom want to leave or Poch wants out. Needs to find a way to give game time to Sanchez, Foyth, KWP and Dier. I would give Poch few months to sort this out. If he can get some pace and motivation into the back 4, even if the results are not great, he can turn it around
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
The sheer fact that we have completely over achieved in the last 5 years.

We all get that. Nobody is disputing it. I don’t think anyone is saying things will automatically improve getting somebody new in but it’s not getting better with Poch at the moment. Those who can see it getting worse can see the signs. Wait till we are smashed by Liverpool. Then will be when he’s let go.
 

bloodzeed

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
1,521
3,468
i remember avb getting the sack when liverpool gave us a beating maybe the same could happen to poch in 3 weeks time we play them.....
one more beating and he is gone imo
 

Graysonti

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2011
3,904
5,823
Granted and I take your points on board - however, my post was more directed at the fact you can't compare Fergie to Poch regardless of the era.

regarding competing with the clubs mentioned above I have always thought that we as a club were/are building a future of self-sustainability. I fully understand we are not in the same financial position as those clubs, but with the right men at the club, we can have something to build to. My opinion is that those men are not Poch and his backroom staff. In all honesty, I have been one of his biggest critics, but willing to let my own beliefs take a back seat when we were performing well, however, I have never been under the illusion that Poch was going to be a long term success. When a manager relies entirely on a system that demands absolute commitment and peak fitness to last 90 mins in a high-intensity press, then something invariably breaks. It wasn't that long ago that you could see the wheels starting to fall off.

There was a time when we were beating teams physically and mentally in the last moments of games. Physically we could compete with all of them and we were like a pack of lions pressing every ball and in turn, forcing the opposition to turn over possession at will. Even Eriksen back then was at it. In essence, we were winning games with a defensive solidity that we have not seen before combined with a terrifying accuracy in front of goal, WHL was a fortress and no more 3pt lane. The team seemingly had everything and it was due to the high-intensity press.

Fast forward to the current day and you can see why Poch was never a long term solution. He has never found an answer to replace the high press. The problem with the Poch system is that unless you have young, physically and mentally strong players who are totally committed to your system, then the flaws of the Poch press are terribly exposed. If you want evidence of the system when it breaks you need to look no further than last night. After a pulsating 30 mins where we played with real intensity and looked like scoring more, it suddenly started to look very troubling. Players were exhausted and you can point at Saturday's game for some of the answers for sure, but the bottom line is that now we don't have the players that were once touted as winning something for sure. The answer on paper is simple, get rid of the players that can't hack it anymore and bring in young blood which can, but in reality, it becomes an exercise in recycling and a costly one too, therefore the real answer is to get someone in who can maintain players, is tactically astute and can keep a squad together without breaking them.

Apologies for going off on a tandem with my reply, but I think most of us can see that we are at the end of an era now under Poch and only time stands in the way of the next project under someone else.


Long term success ?

He has been at the club 5.5 years - that is long term and he has done well.

Most managers at clubs are now 2 seasons - lots of Arsenal fans want Emery to leave. It’s modern football. Pepe is an exception as country backed.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
I think "just getting someone else in" runs the risk of losing the stability that we have enjoyed with Poch at the helm for 5-6 years. Do we really want to become Chelsea - changing the manager every year until you run out of 'Ancelottis' and end up employing Frank Lampard?

Poch is Spurs.

As we've seen last year - it's not about how many matches you lose - it's about how many you win to finish in the top 4. There's still plenty of time this season to turn it around.

Hell, he's barely had a crack at using his summer transfer players.

I agree the diamond isn't working, but I'm not ready to throw him out with the bathwater.

#PochIN

How does changing the manager once turn us into Chelsea (minus the trophies)?

You do realise we used to change managers regularly? Poch being here for 6 years is the exception to the rule.
 

Spurs 1961

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
6,665
8,739
If the rumours are true then Verts needs to go along with those not good enough or not in Poch's plans. He must be allowed to rebuild. Poch has to stay.

As for the poll I won't dignify it with a vote. Knee jerk reactions happen every minute on match days
 

robin09

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
6,800
7,697
There’s a proven winner whoring himself and his knowledge out on Sky Sports who’d probably jump at seeing Levy ringing his phone. If I’m entitled for thinking we shouldn’t lose to Colchester or entitled for thinking that we shouldn’t ship 7 at home no matter what then I’m the most entitled fucker there is. Have you watched 2019? We’ve been awful for a while, the CL run was an absolute fluke it’s shameless that you’d even bring it up tbh. Poch was great and probably still could be. Just not here anymore. Remember, this is Tottenham Hotspur not Tottenham Pochspur

Shameful that I bring up the Champions League final from 5 months ago? I'm sorry for bringing back happy memories.

Mourinho could, and has lost to teams in similar scenarios as the Colchester cup game. Nobody is immune to losing games with their reserve teams in mickey mouse competitions. No manager is immune to getting pumped in a freak result against one of the top teams in the world either.

To assume Mourinho would come in, be happy with Levy not giving him hundreds of millions to spend, and make Spurs 'better' than Poch has, is a little unrealistic in my opinion.
 

THOWIG

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,499
8,329
We all get that. Nobody is disputing it. I don’t think anyone is saying things will automatically improve getting somebody new in but it’s not getting better with Poch at the moment. Those who can see it getting worse can see the signs. Wait till we are smashed by Liverpool. Then will be when he’s let go.

People need to start looking beyond the manager. It's clear that the people above him are the issue.
 
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